Guys What is your take on the climate change deal situation

[outside]

I admire this guy for taking matters in to his one hands and wasting no time. Just wanted to find out general opinion what do you guys think.
Copenhagen, Denmark - Delegates at the U.N. Climate Change Conference are "running short on time" to reach agreement on a deal, U.S. President Barack Obama told them Friday.
"There is no time to waste," he said. "Now I believe it's the time for the nations and the people of the world to come behind a common purpose. We are ready to get this done today, but there has to be movement on all sides."

[taz24]

I'm not sure if we are responsible for global warming or not, but I have kids and if we are responsible for
it, even if it is only 20% of the problem then any improvement must be better than non.

Truth is global warming won't affect me, it will take another 50 years to feel the full force of any real
change and I live in England, so I live in a relatively stable country.

My kids, kids will pay the true cost and people in countries less fortunate than mine will suffer the most.

So in my oppinion lets do somthing.

Cheers taz

[Brian_UK]

I think that the US President should be applauded but it would be have been more effictive if the US had stepped forward somewhat earlier on other matters which the world was trying to improve on.

I'm not trying to sling mud and don't really want a flame war here but to join this forum simply to promote your own President doesn't cut it with me, sorry.

[Gary]

There is nothing remotely admirable about our President. He is turning our country into the ObamaNation.

We didn't cause global warming and we can't do anything to stop it. It's all a big money grab.

[yinmorrison]

2 weeks , thousands of hours of discussion and this is a copy of the 4th Draft of agreement "accord"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...gen_accord.pdf

[Magoo]

The whole thing is a big tax take.
Gleaning the African delegates reports and want issues, they want more money to support their dodgie governments and to fund their local population control methods by shooting everyone. This would be a certain reduction in CO2 generation.
So all the money would support arms dealers.
The plus side would be all the Swiss Banks making a fortune lending out the money. Good game.., the money-go-round theory.

[desA]

Power, money, greed.

[RANGER1]

Its probably a money grab to keep economies ticking over . eg

1980's energy crisis , oil was going to run out soon but didn't .


ozone layer ( havn't heard of it for awhile) . change all refigerants etc , didn't worry about much else it seems .

2000 millenium bug , had to be a set up for people to spend money for nothing .

CO2 refrigeration , a brain wash exercise to go natural refrigerant .
Whats wrong with ammonia .

CO2 build up in atmoshere causing global warming .
Well I guess something has to happen from it and all the other abuses we do to the world .

Maybe its a wake up call but no one will do anything really to treat the root cause .
The world has turned China into a superpower by all of us buying crap that only last 5 minutes , then we throw it in the bin .
We need to go back to basics but were all to selfish to do it .
Technology seems to create a lot of the mess we are in . Buy something and next week there's something better so we have to have it .

In Australia we can't even ban plastic bags from supermarket which take 500 yrs to break down , there to convenient .

I guess nature will sort us out one way or another but in the meantime money makes the world go round .

[Contactor]

The Met Office website reads as follows:
'human activities like burning coal, oil and gas have led to an increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere causing an enhanced greenhouse effect and extra warming'
There is simply no direct evidence that human activities are involved in the current period of warming. It is not enough to say that elevated CO2 levels are responsible, even if they are the highest for two million years, this is nothing in geological terms.
Scientists will never agree because climate modelling will never be a precise science. No computer or human is currently able to grasp the complexity of the planet. There is no basis in fact either for or against. The issue just gets manipulated by those with a political agenda.
However, If only as a precaution we must move away from fossil fuels - heat pump technology has been widely available since the 70's. We just need the right politics, thats all.

[Abe]

Im not sure about all the Global Thing. But I do know something that I care about.

Ive been a conservationist ever since I remember and growing up in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe ) I was always concerned about protection of wild life and the environment.

ie: Against the killing of wild life and deforestation, the cutting of trees made our land into a desert as soon as the top soil was washed away.

Now I know for a fact, everyday there are millions of cars spewing out from the exhaust fumes into the atmosphere.

Where does it all go?

As a rule when I go to the supermarket I take my own bag, I dont use the plastic bags they give away as said before.

" will take 500 years to decompose"

Christmas cards

Why on earth do we send out a billion card, so they can be dumped after Xmas? All that ink, the energy used to print them?

Its called WASTE

And lets not say, Oh, because it safeguards jobs

Id rather have one less job now, then no jobs at all wwhen theres nothing left for future generations.

Everytime we do something, lets think. Is this going to harm the environment, Is this wastage?

As it was pointed out so clearly by my Australian freind,

" What chance do we have when we cant even ban carrier bags!! "

[chemi-cool]

Will someone please bring any hard proof that the world is getting hotter?

I haven't seen any yet apart from the words "probably", "may" and some other uncertain phrases.

Sorry but I don't believe the whole thing. it looks more like a conspiracy to me to get money from the governments.

If we were changing the natural balance, mother earth would have destroyed live very quick.

[Thermatech]

In the short term
If lots of endusers start buying into renewable technonogy for heating like heat pumps then this will be a big boost for airconditioning & refrigeration contractors & manufacturers.

Just consider at what the government has done in Japan with millions of Eco Cute domestic heat pump boilers.
In this case a green agenda has provided substantial income for the manufacturers & contractors.

The green lobby may be misguided but if governments can see the CO2 reduction potential of heat pump technology & invest as in Japan then this could be a global boost for the refrigeration & air conditioning industry.

[Magoo]

The sun is getting hotter and increasing in diameter, not a good look really , could go bang.
All those flare things, stuffs up radio coms frequency stuff etc., suggest a really long look at the actual global warming madness as is not related to CO2 theory shyte

[taz24]

Will someone please bring any hard proof that the world is getting hotter?

.

It's snowing outside my window

Merry Christmas.

taz.

[desA]

The whole Climategate affair really disappointed me.

When I realised what shenanigans the so-called 'top' environmental scientists were getting up to, I realised that they did not have a clue about the real underlying causes & were clutching at theoretical straws - all the while twisting their computer models to show what they 'thought' should be happening. They were crooks.

On the practical side, I agree with the statement by 'contactor' (post #9):

However, If only as a precaution we must move away from fossil fuels - heat pump technology has been widely available since the 70's. We just need the right politics, thats all.

Heat-pumps present a sound alternative to fossil fuel energy sources. These are fast becoming the step beyond a/c. A good opportunity for many members of RE.

[US Iceman]

I tend to stay out of these discussion since I am prone to saying what's on my mind.
Therefore, I'll leave this with you by using two quotes from previous posters.

I'm not trying to sling mud and don't really want a flame war here but to join this forum simply to promote your own President doesn't cut it with me, sorry.

I agree. The poster should take that crap elsewhere.

There is nothing remotely admirable about our President.

He's photogenic, but that's it. I've had heartburn for over a year.

[gregd1401]

If the polar ice caps are melting.how come no one is quoting arctic and antarctic temperatures, Must be above 0 C jor ice to melt.

[coolstuf]

Well said Garry!

[Voyager]

Man-made CO2 is causing global warming, (sorry, climate-change, as some places are geting COLDER) ?

CO2 is CO2. Or does 'our' CO2 have "made in the EU" stamped on it?

It's the 3 B's. Bull**** Baffles Brains.

[Voyager]

As for the Copenhagen summit......
What planet are those people on?

Every time they showed it on the BBC news, delegates were seen shuffling along clutching bundles of papers (deforestation) down a walkway lit by a row of fancy lights (wasted energy & CO2 in a building with a GLASS roof) to gawp at a row of TV screens (more wasted energy & CO2).

Save the planet ! Shoot a Greeny !

[Contactor]

We must solve the humanitarian crisis and plan for population growth. We must save the rainforests and stamp out deforestation. We must protect endangered species and habitats. We should be sharing the problem with the third world and working together to build a sustainable economy instead of dictating emissions targets.

Our politicians are ******g useless. We need people who work.

[Gary]

When politicians do nothing, it's a good day.

[WaterholeWally]

The President (insert Al Gore, Prince Charles, Bono) constantly lectures us and tells everyone how to conduct their lives.

Pollution is bad.

If our governments wanted to attack pollution they would have incentives for universities, scientists, and any private company to development equipment to minimize specific pollution problems. Our governments can't even articulate a specific problem to attack. Taxing is the only consistent solution.

Putting our great minds on a problem is how we always solve them. The governments either can't figure this out, or don't care.

Wally

[Magoo]

Put a bunch of politicians in a room, the only resolution they would come up with would be..., salary increase and we need longer to resolve, plus expenses.
Hell I want to be a politician, with extras, back handers and long term bribes. .... sign here and forward to my cheque account.

magoo

[Voyager]

Hell I want to be a politician, with extras, back handers and long term bribes. .... sign here and forward to my cheque account.

Get in the queue.

[JHdlinc]

The climate has been changing since ever since there was one. The Ice Age and little ice age are good examples. The warmer climates before, between, and after these events are climate change also.

[JHdlinc]

Not that reducing emission would be a bad thing though.

[Magoo]

Breaking news "the alps won't melt and the himilayas won't either, " typo error by a mass of so called scientists.
Yeah right!!!

[grizwold50]

i did some work at the british antartic survey recently and they showed me ice cores from 2km down in the ice and showed that temperatures go in cycles like normal for the last 50 thousand years but since the industrial revolution CO2 is slowing increasing which proves global warming. the world is going to **** glad i wont be here to see it.

[Voyager]

but since the industrial revolution CO2 is slowing increasing which proves global warming.

What it doesn't prove, is what is causing the increased CO2.

People like Al 'gimme the money' Gore insist it is because of cars/trucks/planes/central heating/electricity generation - but they ignore the fact that there has been a massive increase in world population since the industrial revolution.

More people (and livestock to feed them) = more CO2, but no politician would risk his/her income by taxing people or banning reproduction - so they hit 'easy' targets instead.

I still fail to see how hiking taxes will actually remove CO2 from the atmosphere - it might slightly reduce future increases, but it won't reverse the levels already there.

[Contactor]

C02 has been way higher in the past, if the antarctic ice only dates 50,000 years then it does not prove anything. 50,000 years is nothing at all.

For example, during the early carboniferous - 300 MILLION YEARS AGO - C02 levels were 1500ppm compared to about 380ppm today.

The current political hysteria over carbon levels is totally misguided. We should be protecting what little we have left before it's all gone.

[Chef]

For example, during the early carboniferous - 300 MILLION YEARS AGO - C02 levels were 1500ppm compared to about 380ppm today.

Maybe this will help clarify the issue.

CO2 over the ages.GIF

Seems more like it was the only time with such low CO2 as we have now.

Chef

[Chef]

Now here is something of fun.

A global warming knowledge test - see how you do.

But beware of the double negative questions.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Gl...est/start.html

How about if you get more than 8 right (no cheating) you can post in this thread - ahh but thats ridiculous as everybody would then always agree.

Chef

[Contactor]

Your graph confrims high CO2 levels during the early carboniferous.

[Chef]

Hmmm I actually thought you mentioned exactly 300 million years ago in capital type - a statement no less.

It seems the early Carboniferous had a much larger error in the data so no one can be sure or too exact. The error curve is there to see.

Are you quoting 300 million years ago or early Carboniferous, you have to make a choice or it confuses everyone.

Chef

[Contactor]

For anyone who is confused, CO2 levels were much higher millions of years ago. The Carboniferous is not a very good example, but i'm just making a general point. For specific data, dates and further info, see graph above.

[Karl Hofmann]

Never liked the Maldives anyway........