SPACE - All change again

[Time-will-tell]

6 months into the new shift system and it's all change again.
New night shift to start at 1.30pm and finish at 23.00pm (don't think so)
Engineers to take on a dual role, shift engineer 1.30pm till 23.00pm and standby engineer from 23.00pm - 8.00am.
Just how an engineer is supposed to find 11 hours between shifts to have a rest I don't know. Not quite sure how this fits in with "It's to improve your quality of life" as was the statement by Space management when the first changes came into effect.
I know service companies are being hit hard at the moment, but is anyone really looking at a working solution that satisfies the customer as well as the work force?
Also, are things really that tight that in order to save a few pence postage, engineers have been notified of the new changes via text...
I can see it will all end in tears, "get your life jackets on lads" I think the ship is sinking !

[Grizzly]

6 months into the new shift system and it's all change again.
New night shift to start at 1.30pm and finish at 23.00pm (don't think so)
Engineers to take on a dual role, shift engineer 1.30pm till 23.00pm and standby engineer from 23.00pm - 8.00am.
Just how an engineer is supposed to find 11 hours between shifts to have a rest I don't know. Not quite sure how this fits in with "It's to improve your quality of life" as was the statement by Space management when the first changes came into effect.
I know service companies are being hit hard at the moment, but is anyone really looking at a working solution that satisfies the customer as well as the work force?
Also, are things really that tight that in order to save a few pence postage, engineers have been notified of the new changes via text...
I can see it will all end in tears, "get your life jackets on lads" I think the ship is sinking !

All I can say is I am glad I don't work for them!
grizzly

[oldtimer]

stop talking garbage start at 13:30 and you could be out till 8 am i dont think so . no one can do them hours . thats why the top brass change it .

[spacemanmark]

Good Evening Time Will Tell,

Should you wish to discuss this further directly with the person responsible for the change, please feel free to call me at the Bristol office or on my mobile.

I would welcome your discussion and council so we can we all move forward together.

Kind regards

Mark Woods
Space Engineering Services
Service and Maintenance Director

[lowcool]

not a very nice way of treating employees thats for sure.it should read have no lifestyle.
keep your head up time will tell

[desA]

Oh, when the suits go marching in,
Oh,when the suits go marching in,
Oh lord I don't wanna be that fridgie,
when the suits go marching in.

[Magoo]

Vote with your feet and tell them to naff off.

[Clk320_Greg]

Is it just a roumer that you supermarket guys actually get deacent money for this tho?

[NIKK38]

Is it just a roumer that you supermarket guys actually get deacent money for this tho?

All depends on what you class a decent wage?

[Clk320_Greg]

All depends on what you class a decent wage?

Depends if you look at money or the "package"

Ever been SE? I tell you the idea that someone will carry on paying you even tho you are on holiday or ill seems mad?!

You get a van? Uniform? Phone? Staff do? Bonus? Few hours off for the Dr/Dentist?

While i dont doubt you work hard for your money i do often wonder if some people realise how good they do have it?

Remember, the grass is always greener!

[NIKK38]

Depends if you look at money or the "package"

Ever been SE? I tell you the idea that someone will carry on paying you even tho you are on holiday or ill seems mad?!

You get a van? Uniform? Phone? Staff do? Bonus? Few hours off for the Dr/Dentist?

While i dont doubt you work hard for your money i do often wonder if some people realise how good they do have it?

Remember, the grass is always greener!

Actually, I appreciate the grass isn't always greener.

Why do people go self employed?, usually because they become fed up with working for someone else and think they would be better off alone.

Van = taxed and you pay private mileage.
Phone = exceed your limit and you get charged.
Pension = Contributary (matched by company)
Sick scheme = Yes, taxed as a perk ( got a feeling more people may be needing this)
Bonus = shut up!!!!!!!
O/T = No, salary now and banked hours.
Dentist/Doctor = I always try and make appointments out of work hours.

This isn't a debate about the pro's and con's of being employed as opposed to self employed.
The original post is about changes to contract, how it's been dealt with and the affect it will have a people.

[tony--1]

Dont sound good for you spacemen . But at least spacemanmark is willing to talk to the guys . Good luck guys !! . Please i dont work there tho . If you are not happy then get the hell out .

[jjthefridge]

Vote with your feet and tell them to naff off.

i did, so glad i did, much hapier now

[matt.yelland]

We cover a 24 hour shift, only engineer on in the area at the weekends and get the calls that have been alarming out since mid-week.... The store manager wonders why we are tired and upset.....

Shift work is going to go across all fridge companies, but who will pay for it, the customer or the company?

[matt.yelland]

What time does the day shift start?

[desA]

The problem with these silly schemes is that the engineers get tired & unhappy. They also make mistakes due to tiredness. This is not in the best interests of the supermarket chain.

Clearly, the labour franchisers care more about servicing the supermarket's needs - for pecuniary gain (loot) - than they do about their resources (engineers). It seems to have become a numbers game. It is based on pure greed.

It will fail dismally in the end. These numbers games invariably do.

[multisync]

The problem with these silly schemes is that the engineers get tired & unhappy. They also make mistakes due to tiredness. This is not in the best interests of the supermarket chain.

Clearly, the labour franchisers care more about servicing the supermarket's needs - for pecuniary gain (loot) - than they do about their resources (engineers). It seems to have become a numbers game. It is based on pure greed.

It will fail dismally in the end. These numbers games invariably do.

It isn't about 'greed' on behalf of the fridge firm Directors. It's more like desperation. Few business owners sre ruthless to that extent. SMM has been here for many years and doesn't strike me as someone who is a heartless employer. I suspect the company gew and became reliant on Tesco's. That is the exact spot Tesco's wants it's subcontractors to be in. My old boss would openly say "I love my engineers getting big mortgages" was he 'greedy' or just a good boss??
I don't know if Space are in trouble or not but they wouldn't be the first to try to take on the Supermarket game and lose. Tesco's are notorious for taking out fridge contractors. However they are not picking on fridgies, they go at every supplier the same way.
The 'greed' can also deemed good business sense. The job of the Tesco board is to ensure dividends are paid to the shareholders. That 'greed' is overriding all other business decisions.
The British public shop at Tesco's because they like low prices and value for money. Their 'greed' as you call it means that -in reality- they care nothing about Tesco's suppliers and the effects on their staff.

I would be surprised if anyone here is an ethical shopper to the extent they'd not shop at Tesco's because their cleaners/stackers etc are only paid xx PH.
We hum and harr, say nice things here and rage against the machine and I agree but in reality we are all 'greedy' in this respect, we care little about each other, not really: if we're honest.

It's a shame and I'd love to continue but we need some milk and I've just got to pop out to Tes....

[desA]

^ Perhaps it would be best for Tesco's to have their own maintenance fleet then?

[Grizzly]

It isn't about 'greed' on behalf of the fridge firm Directors. It's more like desperation. Few business owners sre ruthless to that extent. SMM has been here for many years and doesn't strike me as someone who is a heartless employer. I suspect the company gew and became reliant on Tesco's. That is the exact spot Tesco's wants it's subcontractors to be in. My old boss would openly say "I love my engineers getting big mortgages" was he 'greedy' or just a good boss??
I don't know if Space are in trouble or not but they wouldn't be the first to try to take on the Supermarket game and lose. Tesco's are notorious for taking out fridge contractors. However they are not picking on fridgies, they go at every supplier the same way.
The 'greed' can also deemed good business sense. The job of the Tesco board is to ensure dividends are paid to the shareholders. That 'greed' is overriding all other business decisions.
The British public shop at Tesco's because they like low prices and value for money. Their 'greed' as you call it means that -in reality- they care nothing about Tesco's suppliers and the effects on their staff.

I would be surprised if anyone here is an ethical shopper to the extent they'd not shop at Tesco's because their cleaners/stackers etc are only paid xx PH.
We hum and harr, say nice things here and rage against the machine and I agree but in reality we are all 'greedy' in this respect, we care little about each other, not really: if we're honest.

It's a shame and I'd love to continue but we need some milk and I've just got to pop out to Tes....

Words that make sense, even if they are not what "we" want to hear!
Never the less to be informed is good and those that do have a choice.
Can make a decision based on a little bit more knowledge.
To counter argue your point Multisync.
When enough people object, opinions can be changed.
I can guarantee that employers read this forum and
"Un- Friendly" posts are not wanted.
The pendulum has swung the other way, but it will
swing back!
Grizzly

[julius Geezer]

It isn't about 'greed' on behalf of the fridge firm Directors. It's more like desperation. Few business owners sre ruthless to that extent. SMM has been here for many years and doesn't strike me as someone who is a heartless employer. I suspect the company gew and became reliant on Tesco's. That is the exact spot Tesco's wants it's subcontractors to be in. My old boss would openly say "I love my engineers getting big mortgages" was he 'greedy' or just a good boss??
I don't know if Space are in trouble or not but they wouldn't be the first to try to take on the Supermarket game and lose. Tesco's are notorious for taking out fridge contractors. However they are not picking on fridgies, they go at every supplier the same way.
The 'greed' can also deemed good business sense. The job of the Tesco board is to ensure dividends are paid to the shareholders. That 'greed' is overriding all other business decisions.
The British public shop at Tesco's because they like low prices and value for money. Their 'greed' as you call it means that -in reality- they care nothing about Tesco's suppliers and the effects on their staff.

I would be surprised if anyone here is an ethical shopper to the extent they'd not shop at Tesco's because their cleaners/stackers etc are only paid xx PH.
We hum and harr, say nice things here and rage against the machine and I agree but in reality we are all 'greedy' in this respect, we care little about each other, not really: if we're honest.

It's a shame and I'd love to continue but we need some milk and I've just got to pop out to Tes....

Well said.................Feel sorry for the lads at Space as shifts clearly don't work , unless you have the manpower (Which sounds like they haven't)........but for the last 15 years all i've known is "Please can you work the weekend/night" from employers who need jobs covering......so , consequently , engineers earn quite a good wage year on year and tend to have nice houses/cars....etc....etc
Things can only get better........!

[damaircon]

never in my career have i known a company to upset so many engineers in such a short space of time, and have no regard for high class engineers with experience and respect leaving the company at such high speed.

[jjthefridge]

never in my career have i known a company to upset so many engineers in such a short space of time, and have no regard for high class engineers with experience and respect leaving the company at such high speed.

hi,

what does that tell you, maybe get rid of the engineers volentarly then no redundancy payment, and no they couldn't give a damm about engineers and their families.

[julius Geezer]

There's only one thing for it comrades..........Revolution..............

I'm Spartacus

NO.....I'm Spartacus

Let the revolt of the mice begin

[Gary]

In negotiations the assumption is that each side pushes for all they can get and they end up somewhere in the middle.

With skilled labor its a little different. You take more than you should and then give a little back. Your engineers can make or break you.

Sounds like its time for Space to give a little.

[Silhouette]

I've worked on both sides of the business (service and install) over the years and the problem lies partly with the customer and partly with the engineers. The customer wants the job done as cheaply as possible with as little disturbance to trade as possible, this means that the fridge company has to cut back on training for the engineers, which results in poor workmanship and knowledge. The customer then sees that he is getting a poor service and pays less and the spiral continues. Engineers (and for some of the people out there I use the term loosely!) expect to earn more each year than the last, when they don't they start complaining and look for the "greener grass". Up until now the engineers have predominantly been paid hourly and have basically had free rein to book whatever hours they want, earning a small fortune as they go and living the high lifestyle. Now they have been reigned back in and put on salaries, so gone are the £50-60k earnings and they are struggling with all the high lifestyle payments!

[cold finger]

From where I am sitting it looks as if the directors of Space have lost all of thier moral duties,,There is a rumour going around that they are going to get their fridge engineers to deal with blocked toilets in a certain supermarket chain
I am sure the local council enviromental health officers. the Food Standards Agency and the Health and Safety Executive will be delighted with this news as we all love to buy food from a fridge which has just been fixed by the bloke who had his hands down the blocked toilets in the ladies an hour before

[NIKK38]

Two tool kits and wash your hands. Problem solved..

[Spencer.Guy]

as we all love to buy food from a fridge which has just been fixed by the bloke who had his hands down the blocked toilets in the ladies an hour before

It would be very unusual for anyone to have to put their hand down a toilet to clear it.

It's no worse than the same guy who hasn't washed his hands after using the toilet personally.
Or clearing out the case drain then putting shelves back in.
.

[chillled]

Wow!! some interesting views, here's my 2p worth.
In my opinion in any fridge branch there are the lads who want to do 40 hours and go home, and on the other hand there are others who aren't happy unless they've got a grand at the end of a week. What the shift thing is doing is making everyone do the same, this doesn't work! See comments by 40 hour men, 'i'm tired' etc when others are happy doing 70 hours plus!! I also agree with the comment about Space not recognising their best assets,i know of at least 4 superb engineers with years of experience being '**** on' By them. Surely something has to give!!! I hope so!!

[Gwyn]

and a comment from Mark Ward impressed

[lowcool]

if your draining yourself by doing longer hours,the probability of hurting yourself has highly increased.
management dont care as they are prepared to run the risk after all it is the figures at the end of the day they are after

[Cool Blues]

Gwyn,

You are mistaken as I have not passed comment at the moment,

I believe it is more beneficial speaking direct with each other, rather than behind a message board pseudonym.

Cheers,

Mark.

[fridgeontheroad]

space have put the last nail in the coffin with this now. when job start popping up with other companies spaces engineers will leave, and nobody is going to want to join them under these terms.

[Gwyn]

Gwyn,

You are mistaken as I have not passed comment at the moment,

I believe it is more beneficial speaking direct with each other, rather than behind a message board pseudonym.

Cheers,

Mark.

My apologies ‘Mark Woods’ I meant not ‘Mark Wood’
I do agree that at time like this people should all get together and hold meetings and talk as a team, then possibly things could be ironed out and we could all get back to what we are trained for like mending / fixing fridges. Some of the larger companies are losing touch with there staff, they need to talk AND listen, and maybe explain a little more, this way the customers might be in a position to help out some way  instead of all of us getting angered and having to walk. Other companies are all the same to work for, same fridges same s**t different overalls different day etc.

[multisync]

My apologies ‘Mark Woods’ I meant not ‘Mark Wood’
.

The confusion was you actually said 'Mark WARD which is why 'cool blue' said what he said..

[chillled]

Ha Ha Brilliant!!! Good old Gwyn, Oh dear get on with those dishwashers son!!, Mark Woods is a big lad who works for space and Mark Ward is a smaller feller who calls people Buddy.You did work there at high level and should know these things!!!!

[chillled]

if your draining yourself by doing longer hours,the probability of hurting yourself has highly increased.
management dont care as they are prepared to run the risk after all it is the figures at the end of the day they are after

It suits some people to do 120 hours a week and be fresh as a daisy(me) and others (??) are falling asleep at the wheel after one early start!! everyones different. And Helecopters don't fuel themseves!!! lol

[julius Geezer]

It suits some people to do 120 hours a week and be fresh as a daisy(me) and others (??) are falling asleep at the wheel after one early start!! everyones different. And Helecopters don't fuel themseves!!! lol

Just one thing......................................?

Do you wear your underpants on the outside...............?

[chillled]

lol only on a sunday!!! bit extreme but just an example to prove a point!!!

[Spencer.Guy]

Crash into someone and kill them with 120 hrs worked that week = 5 years in jail. (Selby)

Crash into someone and kill them with 50 to 60 hrs worked = few points and a fine.

.

[coolhibby1875]

i have never read a post with as many ifs,buts and what nots.
fridge engineers having been working 70,80 and 90 hour weeks for as long as i have been in the trade (18 years) and this will never change as long as fridges are hooked to alarms and stores are open 24 hours we will work these hours, so lets all stop this stupid talk of killing people and crashing vans/cars, its all just what iffs.
what if your auntie had baws? she'd be yer unkle!!!!

[Spencer.Guy]

fridge engineers having been working 70,80 and 90 hour weeks

Working, No

Booking on timesheet, Ipac etc, Yes.

.

[coolhibby1875]

your showing YOUR true coulours spencer i hope your boss doesnt veiw this thread!

[chillled]

Exactly, as you say if your auntie was your uncle she'd smoke a pipe!!! I've been doing Call, Ghosters etc etc for nearly 20 years and when ya tired you have a kip!!! Van,plant room floor, box of lagging, whereever. The only ones that talk of health and safety, crashing vans, injuring themselves while tired are the one who don't want to do it. I opted out of the 40 hour week and am happy to continue!! When i feel like i'm about to crash the van, blow myself up etc etc, i'll hit the hay for an hour or so then crack on, its my chosen career and lifestyle.

[Andy]

Gents
this is not Fridgeman.com

Please take care what you are posting, so that this does not become a slanging match.

Thank you

Kind Regards Andy

[julius Geezer]

Working, No

Booking on timesheet, Ipac etc, Yes.

.

SPENCER GUY..............I'd reason that you've never had to drop an Oil Separator at 3AM in the morning.............and then had to sit there for an hour nto make sure you've done a proper job.............?

[steven.miles3]

There are Eastern Europeans out there that will do all the hours God sends. The first round has only just finished, they will go home get qualified and be back in their droves. Nothing wrong in trying to better yourself.

[steven.miles3]

Hi Mark,

just wondering, did you work on the tools once?

[steven.miles3]

The question below is for. Mark Woods
Space Engineering Services
Service and Maintenance Director<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Hi Mark,

just wondering, did you work on the tools once?

[spacemanmark]

The question below is for. Mark Woods
Space Engineering Services
Service and Maintenance Director<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Yes mate, I was a Engineer, Supervisor and a Commissioning Engineer, still carry my kit in the boot of the car, old habbits and and that. ;-).

Mark