Copenhagen UN conference

[Magoo]

Is everyone prepared for the onslaught. My question is where is all the tax money going?.

[lowcool]

gday magoo
more than likely the politician retirement fund including business/first class travel for the mrs,kids and the bit of skirt (either gender) on the side for the next two generations.now where does the surplus funds go to?

[desA]

I stand solidly behind the development & implementation of natural-refrigerant RHVAC systems.

I see this as being the natural way forwards. It is responsible engineering. Grab something natural, use it, release it after use. Keeps everything in harmony.

What I do however have a problem with is the fact that there seems to be no REAL evidence to show how harmful, or otherwise, the traditional CFC, HCFC, HFC refrigerants really are. The recent Climategate debacle shows up the underlying mechanisms as being of greed & unhealthy politics. The impact that these charlatans have had on the RHVAC industry & everyday fridgie are horrendous.

At the same time, in Asia, no rules are enforced. People still flush through with refrigerant (R12, R22), use no vacuum pumps, nor OFN - just install filter-driers on each circuit. Where is the sense in all of this?

Would that the world would regain its sensibility & do things in a responsible way. (I loathe politicians & their cronies).

[lowcool]

What I do however have a problem with is the fact that there seems to be no REAL evidence to show how harmful, or otherwise, the traditional CFC, HCFC, HFC refrigerants really are. The recent Climategate debacle shows up the underlying mechanisms as being of greed & unhealthy politics. The impact that these charlatans have had on the RHVAC industry & everyday fridgie are horrendous.

At the same time, in Asia, no rules are enforced. People still flush through with refrigerant (R12, R22), use no vacuum pumps, nor OFN - just install filter-driers on each circuit. Where is the sense in all of this?

Would that the world would regain its sensibility & do things in a responsible way. (I loathe politicians & their cronies).

gday des,spot on fella
south australia was the first to phase out cfcs and to adopt a money grabbing scheme from the pollies and salespersons.
its been a pain in the bottom eversince,from memory when they began the phase out they had just finished constuction of a cfc manufacturing plant in india.not much has changed in the last 17 or whatever years.

cheers

[Voyager]

Is everyone prepared for the onslaught. My question is where is all the tax money going?.

Don't you know ?

All that moolah is being spent on a giant vacuum pump to suck those nasty CO2 molecules out of the air.


The UK is also spending £300m on energy conservation in private homes. Most of that is raised by taxing private and commercial transport (but not 'public' transport, 95% of which is privately owned anyway).

Makes sense. Tax that nasty polluting transport to give money to private homes which produce 6 times as much CO2 as transport.

[Gary]

According to NASA, human activity accounts for 1.3% of atmospheric CO2 production. Mother Nature contributes the other 98.7%.

But hey... divide that 1.3% by the number of people on the planet and you will clearly see that your infinitely tiny personal reduction in CO2 emissions is going to save the planet... and isn't that worth giving up all of your money and obeying the every whim of your masters?

[Magoo]

Hi Gary
I remember reading something similar from NASA, so we should all sue "mother nature ", for letting go regularly the odd volcanic explosions. A bit like the movie with Billy Connelly "I sued God ".
Went to a seminar on all this, and was quoted CO2 figures starting back at the start of the industrial revolution, 300 plus years ago. Did not realise they had gas spectrometors back then to analyse air content.
The whole thing is a con, supported by the latest scandle and exposure from the so-called experts, and the fudging of data.
But the flooding in SaudiArabia in deserts, and icebergs heading to NZ from antartica, plus floods in England. All abit of a worry. Nothing worse than waking up in the morning and have an iceberg parked on the beach metres from the BBQ.
Still do not know were all the taxes are going to, suspect the global banking system will soak most of it up.

[Gary]

But the flooding in SaudiArabia in deserts, and icebergs heading to NZ from antartica, plus floods in England. All abit of a worry. Nothing worse than waking up in the morning and have an iceberg parked on the beach metres from the BBQ.

Is the world getting warmer? Maybe.
Did I cause it? No
Can I do anything about it? No.

[desA]

Talking about Aussie politicos.

Some enterprising fellows teamed up whilst still in office, a few years back, after supporting various energy bills - to go into the heat-pump business. Actually a string of them, as they all failed in quick succession.

The one fellow had been forced from office due to his living abroad for too long, whilst still in office. No names, no pack-drill, but there were newspaper articles about the pair.

[Magoo]

There is a book out that scuttles all the glossy data published, name "Air Con " by Ian Wishart he has corilated a lot mis-information on the subject. An interesting read.
As for that dork Al Gore, what a creamer of money, funnyily enough he is American. Possibly trained by Medoff, Midoff that scammer anyway.

[desA]

Apparently the cows are to blame... too many belches & methane emissions.

[multisync]

Is the world getting warmer? Maybe..

no it's not

Did I cause it? No

see above

Can I do anything about it? No

Yes you can.

Most of the MMGW scare is about energy: or rather the lack of it going forward. The natural resources are running out. That is a simple equation of finite resource V infinite demand.

We need to get past this 'poor me' approach and lead from the front. (which is why the so called 1st world stopped CFC usage but the 3rd didn't) The USA is a massive waster of energy in so many ways. The need to be green will -eventually- give Uncle Sam a smack in the mouth and unless they start by getting rid of all that old ****e air con and embrace 22+ SEER inverter stuff they deserve all they get.

In the next hundred years we will suffer huge energy shortages -unless the hadron collider actually achieves something- sadly we should have started energy saving back in the 20's.
The UK housing stock should be energy rated and a compliance or demolition notice should be invoked. Companies should be fined for leaving lights on during the night. etc etc etc. Small beans in themselves but taken globally it will make a massive difference.

Years ago in America (I forgot which state) the local electricity producer was forced to introduce energy saving schemes to householders and businesses. "we'll lose business and money" they cried. But when they did the maths they actually made more profit due to not needing to build additional power plants to cope with demand. The bottom line was they made more money and the consumer saved more. A true win-win. Sadly it's only Governmental pressure and legislation which forces such long term planning.

It's interesting that those complaining the most, live a relatively privileged lifestyle. It's also clear not many here are looking past their own selfish 'poor me' nose.

So don't blame politicians who are at least attempting too!

[Gary]

no it's not



see above



Yes you can.

Most of the MMGW scare is about energy: or rather the lack of it going forward. The natural resources are running out. That is a simple equation of finite resource V infinite demand.

We need to get past this 'poor me' approach and lead from the front. (which is why the so called 1st world stopped CFC usage but the 3rd didn't) The USA is a massive waster of energy in so many ways. The need to be green will -eventually- give Uncle Sam a smack in the mouth and unless they start by getting rid of all that old ****e air con and embrace 22+ SEER inverter stuff they deserve all they get.

In the next hundred years we will suffer huge energy shortages -unless the hadron collider actually achieves something- sadly we should have started energy saving back in the 20's.
The UK housing stock should be energy rated and a compliance or demolition notice should be invoked. Companies should be fined for leaving lights on during the night. etc etc etc. Small beans in themselves but taken globally it will make a massive difference.

Years ago in America (I forgot which state) the local electricity producer was forced to introduce energy saving schemes to householders and businesses. "we'll lose business and money" they cried. But when they did the maths they actually made more profit due to not needing to build additional power plants to cope with demand. The bottom line was they made more money and the consumer saved more. A true win-win. Sadly it's only Governmental pressure and legislation which forces such long term planning.

It's interesting that those complaining the most, live a relatively privileged lifestyle. It's also clear not many here are looking past their own selfish 'poor me' nose.

So don't blame politicians who are at least attempting too!

Ahh... If only you could be king of the world. It must be very frustrating for you that you cannot force everyone everywhere to bow down and kiss your ass.

[lowcool]

a classic for me is dependance on fossil fuels.decades ago they ripped up all the rail lines so to speak of,replaced it with trucks.build bypass roads to direct route goods with minimal delay,but at the end of the day i foresee it as waste of time,the fossil fuels remaining will be needed to generate the straw that comes out of horses bum that we will be requiring for future use,bring back the rails i say as the future is here,in that the essentials can be achieved easily now compared to the communications 25 whatever years ago.for me go alternative for sure but as a quick repair it has to be nukes to balance out the steak sandwiches.electric rail and hybrid hydro cars will circumvent bucketloads.
thats australia
the politics suck big time on pooh like this.

dont forget this an ego trip for pollies their interest is not in you,by the way 22 is not banned yet in australia but it will be coming they say.
move over multi i want to run the world.
cheers fellas

[desA]

Sounds like The Incredible Obamanator will be there... should be interesting.

[Voyager]

As for that dork Al Gore, what a creamer of money, funnyily enough he is American. Possibly trained by Medoff, Midoff that scammer anyway.

I guess you know what his company 'Generation Investment Management Ltd. does?

They invest other peoples money in anti-global warming schemes. They also trade in carbon credits, which were invented by a little known environmentalist called Al Gore.

I'd like to know why an AMERICAN started a company in ENGLAND. Could it be because the American Anti-Trust laws would crap on him from a great height?

[US Iceman]

This is not about finding a solution to any climate change scenario, it's about money! Taking from others to reallocate to others (and not those that really need it).

[chemi-cool]

This is not about finding a solution to any climate change scenario, it's about money! Taking from others to reallocate to others (and not those that really need it).

Yes!, yes!, yes!
And very big money it is.
If any one here or else where think or believe that all those politicians care a **** about us, you must be very dumb!!

Its their bank account that they care of.

[Gary]

They point to the environment with one hand and pick your pocket with the other hand.

The environment is the diversion. It's all about picking your pocket.

[US Iceman]

Whenever you hear a politician express concern for your general welfare and comfort, you should vote for someone else. Their usual mode of operation is to impress you with their concern for you, .... and then rob you blind.... for your own good of course.

[yinmorrison]

This is what is actually happening:

http://janus.astro.umd.edu/astro/stars/SunsLife.html

Meantime blame the Fridgies and collect cash for the Giant Politico escape module.

Multi is correct though about saving energy for the time being , what is the point in having high energy Bills when we dont need to by making simple energy saving adjustments to our lifestyles.
Lead by example.

[US Iceman]

I'm all for saving money by reducing energy.

If that was the main selling feature of this supposed environmental meltdown then it would be easier to do something about.

If enough energy is saved the amount of fuel burned to produce the energy would result in CO2 emission reduction!

[yinmorrison]

Thats right Iceman, problem is that in order to save on energy ( Commercially anyway )there is a Capital outlay and the only Companies who can afford this have plenty to start with , Supermarkets et al, so not only do they save money they can buy into the Carbon Reduction and save even more, gain more power over everything else!.
Most small Companies do not have the Capital available to make major changes to Equipment and therefore are penalised further.
If the Governments want to make a difference they have to provide financial assistance , plenty of real finance not kid on like we have here in the UK.
The Training costs alone for the Refrig/AC Industry alone will in my estimates be around £80M and I dont see any assistance on that front either.

[Magoo]

The du Pont empire must be laughing there tytes off on the way to the bank.
Bring back ammonia domestics, life is cheap, but the enviroment is safe. What would be Homa Simpson 's reaction be. Probably similar to Al Gore's.., Give me the money!!