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Thread: part p

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    part p



    just read this and thought i would share it. it's coming to us soon!

    Why Was Part P Introduced?

    Government ministers have been pressed on this issue time and again, and they hide behind the excuse that it is necessary to combat the loss of life and serious industry that is incurred through cowboy electrical work being carried out. On the face of it that is an excellent justification which we would all wish to support.

    However, if you investigate this subject in more depth you discover (using official figures issued on the web site of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents) that there are in the region of 40 electrical fatalities per year in the UK. And of those electrical fatalities and major incidents, a significant portion are appliance related - for example consumers who run over the electrical cable when cutting the grass with their mower, or badly fitted plugs on old equipment. Those fatalities will still occur regardless of Part P, it isn't a panacea to stop people acting dangerously when using electrical equipment.

    Part P specifically excludes apparatus and appliances which are connected to the electrical supply. The legislation applies only to the electrical infrastructure of the premises - anything plugged into a wall socket doesn't count.

    So in actual fact, using the governments own official figures, this legislation is specifically designed to save 4-6 lives per year. And that's all. Furthermore, if the fatalities were properly recorded (for example a fatality involving someone running over their electric lawnmower cable could be recorded as an electrical death and be one of the 4-6 lives) then it is quite possible that the number of actual fatalities each year which Part P is supposed to affect would approach zero.

    Like everyone, I welcome the saving of even one life. But just consider for a moment how much money government have invested in getting Part P onto the statute book. The figure runs into many millions of pounds, and there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that even one life will be saved - in fact after the introduction of Part P it is more than likely that more lives will be lost when homeowners discover that they can no longer afford to have the job done properly by employing a qualified tradesperson. That work will still need to be done, so the hapless have-a-go hero will be forced to try and fix the installation themselves - and keep quiet about it.

    And won't that be nice if you move into a property where someone who doesn't know what they are doing has been carving up the electrical installation under the floorboards? That "cowboy" operator might well be the previous homeowner, who might not even have realised that he was breaking the law - he might have sought quotes for the work, found them too high (where they might not have been prior to Part P) and got on and done the job themselves oblivious to the fact that he was working outside the law, and even more importantly lashing together a solution designed to bring lives to a premature end.

    My considered response to this legislation is that this money would have been much better spent on improving medical facilities, improving pensions provisions for all, and improving life for everyone. Using taxpayers money to penalise homeowners will not produce the desired results. The number of saveable lives from unsafe electrical works is preciously small, and regardless of Part P it is very likely that at least that number of lives will continue to be lost in the future.

    What Does Part P Mean?

    In plain English, part P means that work carried out in domestic premises may - depending upon its location and nature - be subject to new rules. In short, any electrical work which is undertaken in a kitchen, bathroom, or in the garden will need to be either undertaken by a certified (note: not simply qualified) electrician who is enabled by government to issue certificates on completion to satisfy these regulations. Or alternatively, once the work has been completed the local authority must be contacted so that they can send round their representative to issue the certificate. It is quite probable that because of the need to service this legislation local councils will have to employ more people, thus your council tax bills will go up in the future.

    The homeowner will no longer be able to carry out much of their own electrical work.

    What It Means In Practice

    Once Part P comes into force the homeowner may be in for a nasty shock - and not of the electrical variety.

    Assuming you can find a suitably certified electrical tradesperson it is exceedingly likely that the homeowner will be faced with a very inflated invoice. For example where a simple change of a light fitting might have incurred an invoice for £30, any such change requiring certification will most likely incur an invoice of £200 or more.

    There are two possible motivations for that higher cost coming about. Firstly, in order to carry out all of the necessary checks to produce the certificate the electrician will have to invest time and effort, billable on a time and materials basis. Whereas before the electrician would have quickly carried out the safety checks for the installation the new scenario is that he will have to follow a dogmatic process of form-filling to meet Part P requirements. Your electrician will need new skills as an administrator filling in forms. It could easily be the case that the job you employ him for takes 5 minutes to resolve, followed by 2 hours of unproductive testing and form filling. Personally if I employ someone I have expectations that they will do a competent job to the best of their abilities without having government impose dogmatic processes where they have to prove time and again that they are using best practices.

    Secondly, one of the main reasons why this legislation was introduced was to stamp out cowboy operators. And yet using part P as an excuse it is entirely possible that cowboy electricians will blossom and inflate their prices to increase their profits. Homeowners will most likely hear excuses like "Sorry mate, it's the regulations you see.....".

    Another aspect of this legislation being introduced could well be that the cowboy cash-in-hand operators will cash in on the arrangement - "We'll do that job for cash mate!". There will be no audit trail left behind, no certificates, and if the electrical installation is left unsafe then the homeowner will be liable and unable to pursue the real culprit. Plus the chancellor of the exchequor will not see any tax paid on the cash-in-hand payments (you have discussed this with Mr Brown haven't you Mr Prescott?).

    No-one Will Know About This So It Will Be Okay.....

    You might think so, but come the time when you sell your house be aware that the buyers solicitor will send you a questionaire, on which will be questions asking if any electrical work has been carried out within the premises during your tenure - and if so please produce the required certification.

    You would need to think very hard and carefully about answering that question honestly and truthfully, because if you try to hide the fact and it is discovered years afterwards (and/or a serious electrical incident occurs) then not only will the new homeowners be after you but most probably solicitors acting on behalf of large insurance companies who have carried the risk on the property in the intervening period. You could lose everything you own if such an approach was successful, and all because you answered no on a legally enforcable document thinking it would be okay to tell a small white lie.

    And what about the situation where you employ an electrical contractor at high price, and get the certificate. Some years later you decide to move home and you lose the certificate in the intervening period. This isn't like an MOT ( BUT - A PIR IS) where you can obtain a certified copy for a small sum of money - because there are safety issues involved no-one is going to issue you a new certificate without fully testing the installation for compliance first. That's several hundred pounds you will need to find just because you wanted (or had) to move home. And in due course you can bet your bottom dollar that government will see fit to ensure that you provide valid certificates for your home as part of the sellers packs which are being brought into statute against all advice, whether or not you have had any electrical work carried out on the property being sold.

    Clearly, no-one can ever be justified in creating an unsafe electrical installation and I would never support such activity. But thanks to Part P you will not be able to sign away your home to someone else and leave the problem behind for someone else to sort out - you will have to sort it out before you sell the house. And if you decide to blag it and not tell the truth then you risk your entire livelihood of you, your family, and any dependents you may have. A highly unlikely scenario but bear it in mind all the same.

    And what about another possibly dire situation? You bought the house and then sold it later. Unknown to you the previous owner to you had introduced some bad wiring in the property. The owner after you gets electrocuted - and you get called into the dock to defend yourself because you signed a form to say there was no electrical work undertaken during your tenure. All very well that justice may come to your rescue (and it may not, there are cases where people have been wrongly convicted of an offence), but you could be in for some major disruption to your life whilst this is going on, and you will need to employ your own legal representative to defend you until you are proven innocent. Look forward to saying goodbye to hundreds if not thousands of pounds if this were to happen.

    Surely The Tradesman Can Control His Prices?

    Yes and no. But consider that in order to satisfy Part P the tradesman will need to do the following:

    Undergo an inspection with an approving authority at a one-off cost of about £650.
    Incur membership fees to the approving authority at a cost of about £350 a year.
    Purchase certificates from the approving authority at a cost of £100 or more per year (previously suitable certificates which did not need to carry the certifying authorities emblem could be purchased from anywhere at much lower cost).

    This is on top of test equipment costing over £1,000, and the annual calibration costs of £100 per year.

    It is also a fact that the legislation favours big companies and penalises the small players. In order to satisfy the legislation the company only has to have one of its electricians certified, not all of them. And that electrician takes responsibility for signing off the certificates. The company only needs one set of test equipment too. Clearly in a one-man-band operation the only electrician in the company has to shoulder the cost, but in big mega-corporation employing 20 or more electricians the cost is distributed amongst all. This isn't fair by anyones standards.

    Take another example. A semi-retired electrician who has served a lifetime in the domestic electrical maintenance industry and who does a few odd jobs for people in order to pick up some beer money. He doesn't earn anything like enough to pay for Part P certification and he's not trying to build an enterprise. Thanks to Part P you can say goodbye to that electrician helping you out with your little jobs, you can instead pay through the nose for another tradesman who has to obey the rules as set by government.

    It should be little wonder to the homeowner that the tradesman is not a registered charity, and will need to pass on these inflated costs to the end user.

    My Opinion

    Nice try Mr Prescott, but no gobstopper. There were far better ways of spending taxpayers money than Part P. For example why not have required anyone who is carrying out electrical installation work to have minimum qualifications and experience before offering electrical services? Why not require the tradesman to implement BS7671 practices in all electrical work (BS7671 is only advisory and has been since the outset)? Why all this dogma about the tradesman having to belong to a government-inspired quango designed to drive consumer prices up?

    As a side issue, I happen to have obtained my BS7671 certificate by going to college and sitting an examination early in 2003. I know for a fact that at the time I did my C&G2381 course many practicing electricians out there with years of experience did not have that certification. They will have to acquire C&G2381 under Part P, but why on earth tell tradespeople that they can't be trusted to carry out electrical work unless they belong to a quango recognised by government? This is enforced union membership by the back door, and ordinary members of the public (and tradesmen) can be left to wonder whether there might be backhanders being paid by the quango operatives and those who run larger electrical contracting firms who would be delighted to see the small operators squeezed out of business.

    If I applied to be a taxi-driver it would be a reasonable expectation that I should hold a clean and valid driving license. If it applied to taxi-driving, Part P would force me to join a motoring organisation such as the AA or RAC (and in cost terms having to join such an organisation at least four times each year). And the AA/RAC would be empowered to carry out checks of my vehicle at least once per year - at my cost. I'm not going there Mr Prescott - the amount of electrical work I do in any one year is relatively small and wouldn't cover the onerous costs of belonging to your quango.


    So in future I will be forced to turn away income that your chancellor would have received taxes from. It's no good pretending that the work will go to a larger more expensive outfit on which higher taxes will be paid, as already mentioned it's just as likely that the have-a-go homeowners will be encouraged to do the work themselves, the end result being that no paid work will be undertaken by anyone, representing a nett loss to the UK taxation system. And at the same time introducing the possibility of more fatalities because work will be done by people who do not understand what they are doing nor use safe working practices.

    Please don't mis-read these comments. In essence I am fully supportive of any moves which make homes a safer place, and if we can do anything to get rid of the fly-by-night cowboy operators then that's something that will get my full support every time. But what I do not and cannot support is government red tape which has been invented on the back of the proverbial fag packet by bureaucrats who haven't the foggiest clue about what they are legislating for. Those bureaucrats are not asking questions about the material they are working with, and are believing they are doing the right thing to save lives - the opposite is true.

    Joined up government strikes again!

    hmmmm, interesting.

    cheers

    eggs



  2. #2
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    Re: part p

    excellent post eggs..i'm glad someone else considers the importance!!

    part P will have a big effect on the domestic a/c market...all electrical work will need to be certified this INCLUDES INTERCONNECTING WIRING !!

    in order to certify you need to be part P ...

    whilst it's early days, the effect will be to drive up the price of the installation by forcing the installer to have a full certification for any additional circuits and any which have been connected into ringmains etc.. or paying a sparky to do it for you..

    Therfore if you run a new circuit from the consumer unit you must supply a certificate or -more worryingly-

    if you add a 13a spur to a existing ringmain you must carry out a complete check of that existing circuit to ensure it is up to spec.

    Then you must issue a signed 'minor works cert' to say so with additions noted.

    Those tests will require testers which will cost approx a grand (plus yearly calibration 100 quid or so)

    plus the training and yearly registration fees plus onsite checking by ieenic guys and we will see this fledgling market grind to a halt...

    Of course there will be those who think they won't have to comply but if caught at the time -or at some point in time down the road- in the event of a fire,shock or even a house move which instigated an inspection you will be liable..be aware

    cheers

    richard
    Last edited by rbartlett; 01-12-2004 at 06:09 PM.

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    Re: part p

    Part P will eventually catch all those who 'flybynight' because in the future all works carried out in domestic dwellings will be certified.

    This will be needed to be shown when houses are bought/sold -
    one question for sure to be on all pre-sales q/a's is 'have any electrical modifications been carried out recently'?

    The 'Oh it was done years ago' won't cut it (especially as a/c has a DATE on the unit!!!!)

    Any lack of certificate will be deemed in breach of regs' and then the owner will have to get the wiring certified

    You will only get round this if you never move!!

    Also the next obvious step would be to introduce a 10 year safety certificate -thereby any additions not recorded will be in breach and would need to be certified -

    then the regluation body could investigate who did the installation and prosecute if possible/appropiate

    Obviously this won't happen overnight but slowly but surely this will come into effect..

    plus Part P covers domestic -when do you think ALL electrical installations will be covered by simular!!!


    cheers

    richard

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    Re: part p

    This smacks of the scaremongering that is still going on about being qualified and registered to handle refrigerants as is the case for CORGI - how far are we down the road towards getting the cowboys out of the game? Anyone with cash can buy refrigerants.

    How and when will this new legislation be enforced? As Eggs say's - there is always a way around it.

    Me - I'm all for training and doing the job right but this latest legislation will only cost us customers and income.

    I'm not convinced.

  5. #5
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    Re: part p

    Quote Originally Posted by frank
    This smacks of the scaremongering that is still going on about being qualified and registered to handle refrigerants as is the case for CORGI - how far are we down the road towards getting the cowboys out of the game? Anyone with cash can buy refrigerants.

    How and when will this new legislation be enforced? As Eggs say's - there is always a way around it.

    Me - I'm all for training and doing the job right but this latest legislation will only cost us customers and income.

    I'm not convinced.
    how many people do gas work now compared to pre corgi?

    the part P is to become legal from Jan 1 -no if's but's or maybe's

    enforcement will come on stream as the scheme rolls out..

    We will have exactly the same conversation if and when we get a proper registration sorted..but ten years down the line prpoer enforcement will be in place and the trade will be given back to those who it rightfully belongs -ie the 'skilled'

    If I get part P and I find anyone installing domestic who hasn't I WILL report them and hopefully get a reward -ala corgi!!

    (that includes anyone here btw-although of course no one here would be a 'cowboy' would they?????)

    cheers

    richard

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    Re: part p

    We will have exactly the same conversation if and when we get a proper registration sorted..but ten years down the line prpoer enforcement will be in place and the trade will be given back to those who it rightfully belongs -ie the 'skilled'
    I think it's all about the cost of enforcement.

    Only when accidents happen do people get prosecuted because the legislation is in place, Enforcement? Ha.

    How often have you been inspected for compliance?

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    Re: part p

    isnt 4-6 lives a year worth saving? What cost do you put on life? IN aus the interconnecting cables on split A/C is classed as fixed wiring and therefore must only be done by "A" grade electrician . The big life saver is R.C.Ds. which in Victoria now must be on all new circiuts conneccted to the grid. Life is pressious and you only get one go .
    All elec work done here has by law be accompanied by a compliance certificate from the chief electrical inspector. They even made it law that fridges must pay $200 to the Plumbing ind. Commission for a licence to install ref. pipes on splits . Doesnt effect coolrooms, supermarkets ect. So i gave up installing splits . I refuse to pay a different trade to do what Ive been fully qualified to do for 30 years.
    Last edited by coolkev; 01-12-2004 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Missed a bit

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    Re: part p

    Quote Originally Posted by frank
    I think it's all about the cost of enforcement.

    Only when accidents happen do people get prosecuted because the legislation is in place, Enforcement? Ha.

    How often have you been inspected for compliance?

    we don't have any 'compliance' which is why our industry is in such a mess...

    cheers


    richard

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    Re: part p

    This farce is the sort of thing that brings safety regulations into disrepute.
    It will be largely ignored by the vast majority of people. DIY work will continue in igorance or in spite of these regs, and in almost all cases nobody will be any the wiser.
    It will be impossible in many cases to prove whether or not work was done before or after the regs came in (new colour wire has been available for several months).
    It will encourage things to be done in non-ideal ways to avoid coming into the scope of the regulations. e.g. in the case of domestic aircon, the installer just sticks a 13A plug on instead of wiring into a dedicated circuit.
    I hear that the number of people registered to work under the scheme in many areas is zero, and that large parts of the trade are not adequately prepared and/or aware. Basically a complete shambles. The cowboys will move further undeground and flourish.
    I saw a comment somewhere that technically. even non-power wiring (phone, data, doorbell...) comes under the scope of this farcical scheme....

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    Re: part p

    Im all for " saving lives" but legislators need to think about
    Proportianality in the equation of things.

    Part P I take it will remove the DIY element from anything electrical........

    A lot of work we carry out involves an element of electrical work.

    A way forward for us I reckon is for our local colleges arrange a short program for us engineers which certifies us to carry out electrical work which is necessary for our work.

    We need our local colleges to urgently start talking with the electrical groups and devise a program............
    Last edited by Abe; 02-12-2004 at 07:58 AM.
    Any opinions, statements and facts expressed in this message do not constitute legal advice in any shape or form and is given for a general outlook in nature. You are advised to seek appropriate and specific professional assistance from a regulated and authorised advisor for definitive advice.

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    Re: part p

    everyone said exactly the same about corgi
    but look what corgi guys can charge against what we can.

    there is an argument that by running a mains supply we are taking work from 'skilled sparkies'

    therefore we should applaud them for actually getting legistration to protect their industry

    (isn't this EXACTLY what we have been trying to get sorted for the fridge game - registration/legistration??)


    both au and nz have had these kinds of regulations for some time -http://www.ess.govt.nz/rules/pdf/ecp51v18.pdf

    moaning or ignoring this will not make it go away.


    cheers

    richard

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    Re: part p

    I read somewhere that some colleges were talking about offering a Part P course for DIYers. I think the problem they may find may be prising open the cosy cartel of 'competent persons' organisations who see their profits threatened.

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    Re: part p

    I wonder how long it will be before the main DIY stores start complaining that their income has dropped because they should not (cannot ?) sell to Mr Man in the Street ?
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
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    Re: part p

    The main DIY stores will get around this problem the same way as they get around selling gas fires etc.
    Re-market as "BIY stores" buy it yourself.
    This covers there arses. They sell youwhat they want and then plaster all over the packaging "only to be installed by a corgi, part p etc etc engineer"
    Also if you now ask a plumbing expert in one of these stores for advice now regarding fitting a fire or any other gas product. the fixed reply is "consult a corgi registerd plumber"
    the same will happen when you ask an electrical expert how to wire up the security light they have just sold you.
    "consult apart p electrical engineer"
    that £9.99 security light now cost £209.99

    cheers

    eggs

  15. #15
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    Re: part p

    Quote Originally Posted by electricstuff
    I read somewhere that some colleges were talking about offering a Part P course for DIYers. I think the problem they may find may be prising open the cosy cartel of 'competent persons' organisations who see their profits threatened.

    wow you really are bitter and twisted..besides in order to comply with part P you must be 16th first. then you must be able to test the circuit and issue a certificate

    I don't think these 'colleges' exist in reality in all honesty do you??

    the 'cozy cartel' is to protect idiots bodging electrical works both at their home and someone else. someone like an old granny who hasn't got a clue and relies upon the man to actually know what he's doing...

    now -provided she insists on a part P electrician- she can narrow that risk down to an acceptable level

    you scare me..

    cheers

    richard

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    Re: part p

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the explenation.

    For an outsider, it looks easier, GET UNITED!, Have your organization run by your own people.

    This have been the best way to change the law, get the customers on your side, run the that field as it should run.
    Have a look accross the pond and see what power the workers unions have.

    Also here they rule.

    Thats the only way to win the game and then change the rules.

    Chemi

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    Re: part p

    A way forward for us I reckon is for our local colleges arrange a short program for us engineers which certifies us to carry out electrical work which is necessary for our work.
    Hi Ayb

    If you get qualified to City & Guilds 238 which is the BS7671 16th Edition Electrical Qualification then I think this goes a long way towards being a "Competant Person". This can be achieved on a short college course - 12/13 weeks. You must have a reasonable understanding of electrical wiring though to be able to benefit from the course and a lot of maths are involved.

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    Re: part p

    Hi Frank

    12 / 13 weeks is not bad at all..........Im checking on courses tomorrow..............I reckon to beat em we join em.............

    This way we beat them " sparkies" at their own game...........

    Seems a fair cop to me
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    Re: part p

    Quote Originally Posted by rbartlett
    wow you really are bitter and twisted..besides in order to comply with part P you must be 16th first. then you must be able to test the circuit and issue a certificate

    I don't think these 'colleges' exist in reality in all honesty do you??

    the 'cozy cartel' is to protect idiots bodging electrical works both at their home and someone else. someone like an old granny who hasn't got a clue and relies upon the man to actually know what he's doing...

    now -provided she insists on a part P electrician- she can narrow that risk down to an acceptable level

    you scare me..

    cheers

    richard
    I think the college thing was mentioned in the context of demonstrating competence in to Council BCO people for certain types of work, not as part of the 'competent persons' scheme.

    You seem to be under the misaprehension that the motivation behind this legislation is safety. In reality it's mainly about squeezing out small businesses in favour of the lobbyists who shouted loudest to ignorant MPs that don't live in the real world.
    I have been designing electronic equipment for 20 years. I am entirely competent (in the normal sense of the word) of doing any household wiring tasks, yet according to the people who drafted these rules, I am not competent unless I've paid a fortune to an appropriate body.
    Like the vast majority of DIYers, I will completely ignore this legislation.

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    Re: part p

    Finding the middle ground is the tough thing with regulations. In Kahllie-fohn-ya (as our governator, Arnold, pronounces it) my refrigeration license allows me to do the work of other trades: elec, plbg, gas, related to a refrigeration job. They have to be installed per the code book and I am not allowed to advertise those trades.

    In practice, though, I never install elec supply or plbg, except coil drain lines. I keep elec repair materials on my truck for emergencies, but for installs, I sub to friends in those trades. They have trucks with all the materials I couldn't begin to stock. That way I get it installed correctly when and where I want and I get a better price than the street, which I mark up to my customer.

    Two of my brothers up in Washington State have gone thru hell with their new regs. In order to touch even low-voltage stat wiring, my A/C bro now needs a special license which requires 8 hours of school and $125.00 every year!

    I see an incredible amount of bootleg electrical work, especially in convenience stores. It's amazing more of these places aren't burning to the ground. I carry a circuit tracer but often can't find a shut-off. I have found circuits tied directly into the building main with no shut-off at all.

    At present, there is no code in California for refrigeration work. To get a license you need four years of experience and then you have to pass an exam which is mostly contracting law. Consequently almost anything can and does get installed. I could fill pages with what I have seen in the last 20 years or so.

    There oughta be a law!

    Rog
    Last edited by RogGoetsch; 03-12-2004 at 06:48 AM.

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    Re: part p

    Hi Rog,

    Here you must have an electrician licence to practice refrigeration. Over 90% of refrigeration is electricity. Admit it, most electricians looses their hands and legs when they try to find electric problem in refrigeration control.

    I went to study electricity and got a licence to design and sign for works up to 3x80 amps. Thats cover most of refrigeration works.

    In times when refrigeration work is low, I take jobs as a "sparkie" and it keeps me banker smiling

    Also did some electric jobs in Scotland and Scottish Power accepted my licence.

    I think that if you have a licence to practice electricity, you should be allowed to, no matter if you make your income from repairing fridges.

    Chemi

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    Re: part p

    Hi all,

    I too do agree that some regulation is required - but also I think there needs to be a clear and concise definition of what part p covers.

    I think Richard said "if you add a 13a spur to a existing ringmain you must carry out a complete check of that existing circuit to ensure it is up to spec."

    But if you read The Part P doc at the office of the prime minister it states

    Table 1: Work that need not be notified to building control bodies
    Work consisting of:
    Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses
    Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (a)
    Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (b)
    Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (c)
    Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (d) and consists of:
    Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (e)
    Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (e)Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (f)


    So which is right?

    As for interconnecting cables there appears to be no mention of such situations, unless I've missed it?

    Also it the regs only apply to DOMESTIC dwellings - it will not cut out the cowboys or prevent accidents in commercial property. Most houses I've been in the wiring seems to be normal (although I have seen a few people running 2.5mm² twin and earth down to sheds etc) I would say i have seen much worse wiring standards in commercial places, especially restaurants and small shops. Therefore I agree with egg's argument that it should be compulsary accross the board (commercial and domestic).

    I could see a definate rise in demand for home AC, and it will probably still grow however, not only will the homeowner be doing the wiring, but also installing the split themselves - there are plenty for sale on EBay for example - as we move towards R410a or even HCs, just how safe will it be?

    Anyway I plan to emigrate to Aus so I guess getting the right qaulifications will help with the TRA application!

    Just incase you need it the ODPM's official Part P is here:
    http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...reg_029960.pdf

  23. #23
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    Re: part p

    Just an update on this........

    Although i wasnt convinced at the time of the origional post, i am now halfway through a course to make me a "competant domestic installer" ie an electrician restricted to housebashing only, who is able to issue certificates to certify my own work in domestic dwellings, in compliance with part p.

    WHAT AN EYE OPENER !!!!!!!!!!!

    While it is no secret that i am an unqualified AC/Fridge man(except for my ref safe handling), i chose this trade after time spent in a related occupation (ductfitting), because i had a genuine interest in the magic of refrigeration.
    Regardless of this, i found it very easy to "blag" my way into our industry.

    NOW, YOU CAN NOT BLAG YOUR WAY INTO ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION.

    It is becoming a closed shop, just like Gas fitting.

    I know that it is hypocritical coming from a blagger, but why is fridge work not regulated as tightly?

    There are 4 yes four pages of paperwork to fill out, to cover your own arse with "part p" just to run a leangh of 2.5 to your outdoor unit.

    I never believed in rules and regulations before, but now, i can see where the rulemakers are coming from.

    cheers

    eggs

    ps, anyone need their house rewiring?

  24. #24
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    Smile Re: part p

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe
    Hi Frank

    12 / 13 weeks is not bad at all..........Im checking on courses tomorrow..............I reckon to beat em we join em.............

    This way we beat them " sparkies" at their own game...........

    Seems a fair cop to me
    Hi Abe, I did 16th ed. recently in my area there are short intensive 4 day courses cost was around £500

  25. #25
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    Re: part p

    Here in Italy we have lots of rules.
    To work on building new plants you need the P.E.D. license.
    To work on service you need to follow all the electrician's rules, and to follow a safety plan, written by a professional technician, to prevent body injuries, case by case.
    To project plants you must have a proper school title or a university degree, and a license from a local authority wich give you titles to sign projects.

  26. #26
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    Re: part p

    Eggs, you are so 100% right mate. You hit every point right on the nose.

    As for our industry - I am 57 years old and I have been A Refrigeration Engineer from 16. Why the f**k do I need a refrigerant safe handling certificate issued by somebody who has probably never even been 'in the field' ??!!??!!

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