R507 instead R404a?

[Friobernal]

Hi,

I´ve heard that R507 is a better refrigerant than R404a, and it is going to substitute R404a because R507 was patented some years ago?

Some comments...?

[chemi-cool]

Just between the two of us, when ever any unit works on 507 brakes, I change it back to 22.

From that moment it works better.

No, I didnt hear such a thing.

Chemi

[Gary]

Hmmmmm...

R134a is not a blend, and therefore cannot separate.

IIRC, R507 is a near azeotrope. Adding a little R134a to it, making it R404A makes it a zeoptropic blend, thus the R134a can separate where there is a saturated mixture, but will blend back together everywhere else in the system. Fractionation inside the system is not a problem.

As I understand it, the biggest problem with the new refrigerants is POE oil. It is not only hydroscopic, but highly detergent as well.

I don't know anything about the world bank, nor do I care, but the ozone depletion farce was pure BS, and I will never forgive the EnviroNazis for screwing up my industry. They took the joy out of my job. The only group that makes me more angry is the TobaccoNazis.

[chemi-cool]

Funny Gary but I know exactly how do you feel

Chemi

[coolkev]

Gary i agree the ozone buisness is a crook off s h i t . Didnt it come at the same time as duponts patents on ***** run out? And as i understand it dupont was the main company backing the ozone theory or am i just suspicious?

[shogun7]

Has anyone used Icors NU-22
NU-22 is the most practical and natural choice for the replacement of HCFC-22. It is the only HFC based R-22 replacement that is compatible with synthetic and mineral oils (MO,AB,POE). NU-22 has also proven to be compatible with all standard equipment components and materials used in R-22 manufactured systems. After conducting over one thousand hours of compressor wear testing, NU-22 has proven to be fully suitable for use in scroll, screw, rotary and reciprocating compressors.

[Servicefrigo]

HY.

I Prefer R 507 because, I ask you what hapen*t when you lose 20% of a charge R 404 a . Is the same when you lose 20%
of R 507.what* s your opinion.

[Tony]

R507 is a near azeotrope

R507 is an azeotrope (not a near azeotrope).

All R500 numbers are azeotropes.

[frank]

Has anyone used Icors NU-22

Can't say I've heard of it Shogun

Is it available in the UK or just Stateside?

[Abe]

I don't know anything about the world bank, nor do I care, but the ozone depletion farce was pure BS, and I will never forgive the EnviroNazis for screwing up my industry. Gary

I said this many times before.............Next time some bald headed, bearded, , white coated , university lab closetted scientest, comes up eith a theory and blurts out,

" the temp of the world is rising.................The ice caps are melting........... We BLAME CHLORINE..................Lets go look for chlorine........."

.
They found it, it was a constituent of refrigerants...........or solvents as they were fond of calling it.

Who was blasting tonnes of the stuff every day..............Yes , mainly R11 as a cleaner.

The Tobacco companies used it to " fluff" up the tobacco, blasted hundreds of tonnes into atmosphere every day

The Pcb , chip electronic manufacturing companies. To clean electronic components. ( Silicon Valley)

Aerosal companies who filled cannistors with it.

Like with all other issues, they could have stopped these industries using refrigerants............

No , they developed a whole new host of refrigerants

We , refrigerant people had no voice...........we sat back glumly and took it on the chin...................

It says a lot about us.............

Look at the hunting ban here..............Do the Country Alliance sit back ??? No they dont..............They fight back for what they see as their right to kill poor little fox.

I by the way do not agree with killing animals for sport, wether it is a fox in an english meadow, or a Rich Yank paying his green dollar to down a magnificent lion..............or giraffe..

They is always a solution to things..............Solutions are destroyed when money aspects override the issues.

The chemical companies saw an opportunity to make big money.........

Who said it was Dupont ?? who supported the idea..........If is is true we can start by stop buying dupont refrigerants.......

[jay]

I did try and found out R507 works better then R404a

[chemi-cool]

Hi Jay,
Good to see you here.

Better in what? AC or refrigeration med, or low temp?

Chemi

[RogGoetsch]

I said this many times before.............Next time some bald headed, bearded, , white coated , university lab closetted scientest, comes up eith a theory and blurts out,

" the temp of the world is rising.................The ice caps are melting........... We BLAME CHLORINE..................Lets go look for chlorine........."

Actually, chlorine was fingered for the ozone hole, not global warming.

Perhaps the hole is a naturally occurring phenomenon, but the truth is we were pumping billions of tons of crap into our atmosphere. I was skeptical of the science until I read a pretty understandable paper which convinced me it was too probable to ignore.

Pollution is one of the things we humans do best. Denying that we are poisoning ourselves is probably the second. Look at all the epidemics in all the cities of the world before sanitation. We used to dump our sewage in the streets, let it run into the rivers. Downstream cities drank it.

We , refrigerant people had no voice...........we sat back glumly and took it on the chin...................

It says a lot about us.............

I think it says we care more about the health of the planet than our own convenience.

They is always a solution to things..............Solutions are destroyed when money aspects override the issues.

Another word for it is self-interest. We all have a hard time seeing beyond our own. It's why our world is the way it is. We live in an amazing paradise: incredibly beautiful in every way, food grows from the earth itself or falls from the trees. But we only see the worm in the apple or decide we don't have enough.

The chemical companies saw an opportunity to make big money.........

And then orchestrated an international conspiracy in which they enrolled scientists from around the world to create a bizarre theory? And not a single conspirator blew the whistle, and they all either did it for no personal gain or else the secret payments from the chemical companies were never discovered?

Hmmm. I either need more details of this amazing conspiracy or send me some of that stuff you're smoking, Dude!

Relax. Life is short and most of it can be pretty good if you can get your attention off whatever it is you love to bitch about!

Rog

[Abe]

And then orchestrated an international conspiracy in which they enrolled scientists from around the world to create a bizarre theory? And not a single conspirator blew the whistle, and they all either did it for no personal gain or else the secret payments from the chemical companies were never discovered?

Hmmm. I either need more details of this amazing conspiracy or send me some of that stuff you're smoking, Dude!


Rog

Dont be so daft and condesending Rog..............use your bottle

You dont need to " muster" opr mobilise a coalition or alliance in order to "conspire"

You need an army of sheep..........

Youre a typical American.........

[jsugalski]

Hmmmmm...

R134a is not a blend, and therefore cannot separate.

IIRC, R507 is a near azeotrope. Adding a little R134a to it, making it R404A makes it a zeoptropic blend, thus the R134a can separate where there is a saturated mixture, but will blend back together everywhere else in the system. Fractionation inside the system is not a problem.

As I understand it, the biggest problem with the new refrigerants is POE oil. It is not only hydroscopic, but highly detergent as well.

I don't know anything about the world bank, nor do I care, but the ozone depletion farce was pure BS, and I will never forgive the EnviroNazis for screwing up my industry. They took the joy out of my job. The only group that makes me more angry is the TobaccoNazis.

so do you also hate the feminazis?

[Gary]

so do you also hate the feminazis?

Yep... and just so you don't get the wrong impression, I don't like the conservatives, either.

The thieves and dictators versus the dictators and thieves. Politicians are the scum of the Earth.

[jsugalski]

Yep... and just so you don't get the wrong impression, I don't like the conservatives, either.

The thieves and dictators versus the dictators and thieves. Politicians are the scum of the Earth.

fair enough, just the "nazis" part of your phrases prompted me to ask even if in jest...anyway I'll leave the politics for another time, that problem I had with the phase change unit in another thread, I do have a relevant bit to ask in this thread, I was considering getting a danfoss compressor to replace it on ebay, especially if it goes for as little as it is currently going for...it's a SC12CL R404A/R507 whereas the one I have in the unit is the stock nf9fx danfoss that is in it that I suspect has issues...I may have it fixed anyway, but the sc12cl uses better coolant either 404 or 507 depending on if this person refilled it vs the 134a in my current unit, as well as a slightly bigger motor so I should get better temps overall...just wondering what your opinion is on this.

[Gary]

The two refrigerants are almost identical. Essentially, if you take R507 and add a small amount of R134a, it becomes R404A.

[chemi-cool]

Hi Gary,

True but 507 has a slight higher pressure on condensing,
still they are not as good as 22.

Chemi

[coolkev]

I agree with gary they are all most identical even the price is almost the same. I disagree with R22 being better. There also about the only refrigerants that are ok to mix in a system. I have always disliked R22 especially in low temp applications.Having to run head cooling fans and on s'market rack systems desuperheating TX valves on the suction header. On medium temp care must be taken to ensure low superheat or discharge temps go off thier face. I still think R22 is still for air conditioning. R404a and R507 are long term replacements for good old R502 with the use of POE oil. Regards Kev

[chemi-cool]

Hi Kev,

I use 22 for years for AC and low temp down to -18 freezers.

No problems at all, no head cooling fans (its hot over here)

In new freezers, I have sterted to use R404.


Chemi

[muddassarusa]

The two refrigerants are almost identical. Essentially, if you take R507 and add a small amount of R134a, it becomes R404A.

Hi Gary,
what % can be mix with R-507 and R134a become correctly as R-404a? 10% or 20% or???

[CPboy]

please correct me if i'm wrong,

r507 and r404 is better for low temp applications than r22, my experience with r22 especially in our hot tropical climates is that the compressors bruns out faster than r404a/507 compressors,

but 1 thing why i like r507 more than r404a is when you have a leak, r507, you can just refill the syatem after fixing the leak while r404a, you will have to drain all refrigerants and refill it because if youjust add it, the blend will not be perfect anymore for r404a....

[Gerrit]

Hi Gary,
what % can be mix with R-507 and R134a become correctly as R-404a? 10% or 20% or???

R404a
44% of R125
4% of R134A
52% of R143A

R507
50% of R124
50% of R143A

[asproegypt1]

Hi
I was searching for anything to re-charge my R-123a So I found Something Maybe It Will Be More Useful For Your Issue And

otherwise it helps me too

rizkbrothers.com/Arabic/products.php?tn=cHJvX3Byb2R1Y3Rz&for=Mzk%3D&main=0&sub=0&pro=39&lan=Ar

[oldesky]

On low temp R507 is better than R404a. It is considered azeotropic because it has a temperature glide less than one degree. Tests done on partially replacing the R404a system charge at various percentages with R507 show little or no decrease in efficiency and in some cases an increase. R507 can be vapour charged which can be an added advantage.R22 is not as good at low temp especially on systems with higher than normal return suction temps due too high discharge temperatures. R134a is the best option for medium temp refrigeration and R22 will soon be phased out in many countries that havent done so already. I agree with you on R507 Gary but strongly disagree on Tobacco. As an asthma sufferer whos Asthma is triggered by cigarette smoke, I dont believe that smokers have a right to give me an asthma attack.

[Gary]

I agree with you on R507 Gary but strongly disagree on Tobacco. As an asthma sufferer whos Asthma is triggered by cigarette smoke, I dont believe that smokers have a right to give me an asthma attack.

It might interest you to know that I was an early advocate of non-smoker's rights. But somewhere along the way I realized that there was no quid pro quo, that non-smokers didn't give a damn about smoker's rights.

If non-smokers don't care about my rights, then why should I care about theirs? If they think it's okay to rob me, then why shouldn't I blow smoke in their faces and watch them choke? Seems fair to me. I'm choking on their taxes.

[lawrence1]

Interesting comparisions link below.

www.solvay-fluor.com/.../r507_in_comparison_to_r404a_and_practical_experiences.pdf -

[oldesky]

Gary whilst I greatly respect your refrigeration opinion, I disagree with you on tobacco. In saying that I do agree that you have a right to commit suicide as quickly or as slowly as you wish,as long as you dont kill or injure others on your quest.but this is a refrigeration site so I will not continue a fruitless and pointless argument.

[paul_h]

^ you just did

[skoerper]

Have you tried R407A?
It's a proven replacement in exsiting R22 low and med temp refrigeration equipment. No equipment changes or mods. Does require at least 50% POE.
Copeland, Carlyle and Bitzer approved.
Walmart, Food Lion, Costco, and many others are using it in new equipment since it has a low GWP compared to R507 and R404a.

[Horoaffonee]

I would like to know if i can use the Microchip 25lc320 instead of the Atmel AT25320the datasheet looks like similary.Or maybe is there a equivalent by Microchipthank you