R 12

[rick]

Hi all.
Anyone here have any ideas on why a temprite beer cooler might not run succesfully on drop in refrigerant sp34e?But when original refrigerant (r12) was put back into system operation was perfect.I know of several systems that have sp34e in them and they operate fine.Have seen this problem only twice.

[Brian_UK]

Short answer Rick is no.

The only thoughts are have you followed the recommendations regarding changing over to SP34E ?

According to Solpower ( www.solpower.com ) the drier should be changed to an R134a type and the charge weight reduced to between 80-90% of the R12 charge.

The fact that Solpower mention Temprite on their site seems to indicate that all should be well.

Hope that you resolve the problem.

[Latte]

[QUOTE=Brian_UK]Short answer Rick is no.

The nonly thoughts are have you followed the recommendations regarding changing over to SP34E ?

According to Solpower ( www.solpower.com ) the drier should be changed to an R143a type and the charge weight reduced to between 80-90% of the R12 charge.



Hi Brian,

Couple of things,
1) I assume that SP34E is R143a
2) You post about a R143 Drier, what different from a normal drier

I have only used Isceon 49 in a previous job and R409 in latter jobs and have never had a problem with drop in's although you must always undercharge by a least 10%

[coolkev]

g'day **** u asked me this 1 seems the answer is the same sould damn work. But as we know somtimes it just dont. As for reducing charge on temprite I feel it would be a bit hard on low side float sys. will rattle its guts out and destroy needle and seat. Dont try 409a it will sep. in flooded cooler and one minute too warm next it will freeze. Catch u l8er mate!!!

[coolkev]

Silly site must see your name as swear word as u know ive always called you rick with a "D" can we call Robert Bob?

[rick]

Thanks Brian appreciate the comments.
Driers on these systems were definetly suitable for 134a.

rdocwra.
sp34e is almost the same as isceon 49
basically 134a with additives to carry mineral oil.

Kev is right with a temprite it is a flooded evap and you must be careful what drop in you use to replace r12.
750 valve was set correctly to maintain correct evaporation temp.But after 2nd beer poured in succesion the beer temp went up dramatically.Even went to the extent of making sure that all temprites were free of trapped oil which will take up space otherwise occupied by refrigerant thus causing on efficiency drop.But as soon as r12 was put back in operation was normal (after 750 valve was set to original position)
Still puzzles me.

[frank]

I have only used Isceon 49 in a previous job and R409 in latter jobs and have never had a problem with drop in's although you must always undercharge by a least 10%

Wouldn't it be more accurate to charge to the correct superheat?

[Latte]

Hi Frank,

I charge to 10% less on recomendation from Isceon Distribution Services. Don't know they exact technicalaties why but at the end of they day they are the professionals when it comes to gases

Regards

Raymond

[coolkev]

Frank
one question, as this is a temprite beer cooler which is a flooded evap with a low side float how do you charge to super heat????????????

[frank]

If you read the thread properly you will note that Raymond said that he generally charged to 10% less with the drop in replacements. He did not say he was working on flooded evaporators.

[coolkev]

i thought the original question was on a temprite

[rick]

are we just going to sling **** at each other or talk about a problem?

[rick]

check the original post.

[coolkev]

g'day **** do as im doing and ignore the juvinile remarks there just trying to rev me up. As we know it will take more than that asset serv trained. (in house joke LMAO) I typed real slow just for Marc

[Abe]

Silly site must see your name as swear word as u know ive always called you rick with a "D" can we call Robert Bob?

I beg your pardon ?????

[Brian_UK]

success hinges on a passion for excellance

Shareing youre knowlege is one way to achive immortality

Sorry Ray, I know I'm really, really quick sometimes but do I assume from your updated signature that you do not have a passion for excellence and are not aiming for immortality, or are all the spelling mistakes just to test the spell-checker (it failed)?

[Latte]

Hi Brian,
You should know by now that spelling is not my forte.

Usual thing of mind working quicker than fingers.

Regards

Fatboy

[rick]

Thanks for the comments nighter 1.
Dont worry about coolkev calling me ****.I actually know coolkev and what he is calling me is a shortened version of Richard he wasn't insulting me.
Just one question you do know what a flooded evaporator is don't you?

[coolkev]

g'day nighter 1 glad we sorted the rick = D i c k deal. As for 409A in temprites it dont work the constant pressure due to the 750 valve does seem to cause some type of seperation. Ive expeirenced it in the field the temps are erratic and it is too warm or it freezes now and agian if set cold enough. Maybe the drinkers over there dont want the beer as cold as here.

[Temprite]

G'day Kev and everyone.
Had to change my user name.I went to edit my email and put the wrong address in.Because of changing my email the site would not let me back in to edit it to the correct address.So I tried to reregister with my user name but it wouldn't let me because the user name was already taken.So I registered under a new name.
Anyway.....
Had some trouble with that same temprite I was originally talking about.So when I was there I took the R12 back out and tried it on 134a.No different than using SP34E still same problems.Set 750 valve to maintain about -3 c evaporation temp.By the third glass the temp of the beverage was up to nearly 4 c.With R12 you could pour 6 glasses before it did this.Makes me wonder if any gas except fo R12 would work on this system.

Regards Rick.

[coolkev]

G'Day D i c k A properly sized t'rite system should pull beer at temp, pretty well continuosly generally its about 1.5 HP for a single t'rite is the unit under sized or a bit ineffiecient might get away with it on 12 but not on the replacements which dont work as well as good old Dichlorodifluoromethane ?

[Temprite]

G'Day D i c k A properly sized t'rite system should pull beer at temp, pretty well continuosly generally its about 1.5 HP for a single t'rite is the unit under sized or a bit ineffiecient might get away with it on 12 but not on the replacements which dont work as well as good old Dichlorodifluoromethane ?

G'day Kev
You could have a point here this single temprite is a one horsepower embrako condensing unit.Got this checked by three seperate sources and they all reckon one horsepower was the size for the job.I wonder if it needs a bigger surge drum?Being a portable it's surge drum is not much bigger than a liquid reciever.Anyway I will catch you later its 3 in the morning and the twins wont sleep.

[coolkev]

Hi D i c k The surge drum shouldn't effect capacity its only for slowing cycle time down. Is the L/P set at 25 psi in, Just above 0 psi out? What pressure is it running at while pouring beer that will tell you if its a capacity problem. Should keep under 28 psi if not it will warm up after beer thats been sitting in cooler emptys and the beer flowing is not running through cold enough refrigerant. Are the barrels chilled?

[wesmax]

do you mave any jobs with 409 in it for a long time word here is not good
wesmax

[JimmyMurphy]

Sorry guys this is a little off topic im just learning the site. Is R-12 still legal to buy in the United States? In Canada we're unable to purchase anywhere legally and I thought it was the same in the USA but a guy in my refrigeration class brought in a magazine that was advertising R-12 sales. Just want some clarification on that

thx