Refrigerant gas leakage what's the answer?

[davo4]

What's the industry thinking now all over the world on gas leakage? Are top-ups still a money spinner for contractors? Is the RAC industry really interested in reducing gas leakage & how can it best be accomplished? Should governments be expected to raise gas taxes to a critically painful level before it makes a difference, or will vested interest lobbyists prevail? Your comments are valued.

[Magoo]

Preventative Maintenance Contracts. ( PMC ) sell your services.

[Tesla]

Most of us now know that top ups are false ecconomy and we can get more revenue from repairing that leak. Problem is the onus was innitially put on the technician and not the company. It is the company which makes the money - companies should be regulated in this area with refrigerant registers and regular audits tracing all amounts of gases (new and used). The big paper trail is required and a few companies to be made examples of. Us technicians usually just do what we are told.

[mad fridgie]

Pre paid fully labor inclusive preventive maitenance contracts. This worked for me many moons ago. I instructed the engineers to go over the plant with a fine tooth comb during the regualar sevice check up. To make good money out of these contracts you needed to keep additional call outs to a minimum.
By default leaks kept to a minimum

[Gary]

What's the industry thinking now all over the world on gas leakage? Are top-ups still a money spinner for contractors? Is the RAC industry really interested in reducing gas leakage & how can it best be accomplished? Should governments be expected to raise gas taxes to a critically painful level before it makes a difference, or will vested interest lobbyists prevail? Your comments are valued.

Your assumption seems to be that leaks are not found and repaired because it is more profitable not to find and repair them.

I don't know of anyone in this industry who fails to find and repair leaks for that reason.

As is the case with most assumptions, yours is incorrect.

[Gary]

Us technicians usually just do what we are told.

My experience is somewhat different. The shop assigns a service call to me. When I am done, I call in and they assign me another one.

Aside from that, I'm pretty much on my own and I do things my way.

[Ray@gacs.org.uk]

What's the industry thinking now all over the world on gas leakage? Are top-ups still a money spinner for contractors? Is the RAC industry really interested in reducing gas leakage & how can it best be accomplished? Should governments be expected to raise gas taxes to a critically painful level before it makes a difference, or will vested interest lobbyists prevail? Your comments are valued.

We are now checking all systems for leaks on all visits, however a system we are now curing leaks on will require changing from R22 to a drop in it is a 4 compressor pack and we intend to use R422a. Have any one out there any experience on this? I have been advised that we do not need to replace the TEV's is this correct as other reports say we do, can any members help through experience?

[Gary]

Should governments be expected to raise gas taxes to a critically painful level before it makes a difference, or will vested interest lobbyists prevail? Your comments are valued.

What you are suggesting here is yet another big government money grab which will have absolutely no affect on the way in which leaks are located and repaired, based upon a politically correct and patently false assumption.

Leaks are not located and repaired because a) There is no leak (misdiagnosis) or b) The leak is extremely difficult to find.

Usually when I point out that leaks are difficult to find, people suggest electronic leak detectors, their assumption being that these make leak finding easy. I have a collection of electronic leak detectors.

Why a collection? Because I have gone from one to the next to the next trying to find one that is better in the real world at finding leaks than my old halide torch... and my old halide torch is not very good at finding leaks.

I have yet to find one that lives up to the marketing hype, much less the politically correct propoganda. They are all crap.

[bill1983]

hi Gary,
i do agree with you in the fact that electronic leak detectors are crap, but only at pinpointing the leak. they do offer an indication as to the general area of the leak, ground floor, 1st floor, aisle number?, plant room, coldroom etc. it is still reliant on the engineer to strip down and look for signs, listen for leaks and confirm them by any other means. They won't tell you if you have located the only leak, just that you have repaired the one that was there before you fixed it. I preferrred the halide torch because it gave you a clear visual and nasal indication of any refrigerant present. Nothing is better than a pressure test but they are not always practical due to system size, so we have to work with the tools available to us.
The reason leaks are not found is because the so called engineer is too lazy to look, ie they are too difficult to find. I would also suggest that when using the electronic leak detectors for the first and each subsequent time the box is opened, the instructions are not read which usually indicate a leak detection speed. In other words, the speed at which the head of the leak detector is moved. I have seen engineers wave the wand about in such a manner as to suggest they don't even understand the way their new toy works. the only sure fire way of being sure that you have found every leak on the system is by methodically leak testing each part of the system at a pressure above that which the system usually operates.
anybody care to continue this rant?

[Gary]

I get really tired of the politically correct BS.

The point I am trying to make here is that the problem is not driven by greed. The proposed solution is driven by greed.

The government grabs the money, the industry grabs the money... and the consumer takes it in the butt.

And the people who are the least greedy of the entire bunch get the blame.

[davo4]

Hey y'all, really appreciate your comments to date. I've been a fridgie since 1962, and back at the turn of this century, I spent 6 years with the University of Cambridge et al and the best part of $1.5M trying to develop a non invasive reliable in-situ gas charge depletion warning device. I'm really interested in the indusrty thinking on gas leakage, and to date it seems to be a balancing act between the technician and the commercial pressures on the employer generally trying to minimise the damage sustained by the customer & the environment. Keep the comments coming please.

[multisync]

We are now checking all systems for leaks on all visits, however a system we are now curing leaks on will require changing from R22 to a drop in it is a 4 compressor pack and we intend to use R422a. Have any one out there any experience on this? I have been advised that we do not need to replace the TEV's is this correct as other reports say we do, can any members help through experience?

Have you tried the search -or would you prefer us to do it for you?

[mad fridgie]

I am with gary on this to much PC BS.
If we look at leaks in the real world, I would like to defend the techs. Normally they been called because there is a lack of refrigeration, in the clients eyes this critical,they are loosing something (food, money computer power etc) Diagnosing lack of refrigerant is easy. The client is desperate to to get his equipment up and running. Pressure Pressure Pressure! What is he to do. Looks for the big leak, "oil". Bangs in the refrigerant, things start to cool. Ask the client for access to all parts, client replys, "do you not think i lost enough already?" Come back tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes.
Until next time