Glass in coldroom

[Crypton]

I need help with a coldroom design. I am installing a new coldroom in an offlicence and the client is looking for the usual coldroom design. He wants the front wall of the coldroom to be glass with an electronic sliding door. The width of the front wall is only 2500mm wide with the opening of the double sliding door of 1200mm wide. Height of front wall 2600mm, height of door standard. The room will hold chilled wine and beer so the room temp will be 3c. The whole idea of this room will be that the customers can walk into the offlicence and can see straight into the room.Will the glass have to be double glazed? The fact that there will be a constant flow of people entering the room and picking their product will this have any effect on the refrigeration plant design? Has anyone any experience with designing something similar?
please help.....

[mad fridgie]

Yes needs to be double glazed, size as normal cold room, but for air infiltration use "heavy"

[Crypton]

thanks mad fridgie
what do you mean by "heavy"
does the glass have to be heated
have you ever came across a cold room like this.im looking for a manufacturer who would be able to provide this service

[mad fridgie]

thanks mad fridgie
what do you mean by "heavy"
does the glass have to be heated
have you ever came across a cold room like this.im looking for a manufacturer who would be able to provide this service

Air infiltration (or "use") is heavy, so depending upon how your are designing the load, either with a set of standards for variours sizes, temps and use, then use "heavy" or you go could go back to base principles.
Glass does not need to be heated.
Do not know how things are done NI, but a simple way is to purchase a 3 sided room (+ roof) from your cold room supplier, then the glass wall purchase from your local PVC double glazing company (if this is the look he wants)

[Crypton]

Great, thanks for your help. I have contacted a few glass suppliers and they are doing up a quote for the job thanks again.

[chemi-cool]

The gap between the glasses must be filled with inert gas and sealed good or you will get condensation on the glasses.

You did not mentioned the working temp. An important factor.

Air pressure equaliser will be needed too. Unlike the walls, glass is flexible so it need to be protected from differences in the air pressure.

Please post a picture when you're done.

[Crypton]

Working temp is 3c. Wine and beer will be in the room. I have a few people coming back with prices of the glass. I was not aware that the glass had to be filled with an inert gas, something I will have to point out. I will post a pic when job is finished. Thanks for your comment.

[nike123]

Check this products:
http://www.misaspa.com/inglese/porte/ppv-pnv.html#

[multisync]

3 deg C seems a bit cold for wine/beer?

[lowcool]

3 deg C seems a bit cold for wine/beer?

i think you might have your temps confused multi
cheers

[mad fridgie]

3 deg C seems a bit cold for wine/beer?

Live (UK) beer needs to kept above 8C other wise the protiens participate out (goes cloudy) Like in a Pub! In NZ and Aus the beer dead and processed a bit like lager! (In anbottle store/off licience as in this thread all is dead beer, so is kept colder)
In NZ it cold around 0to2C inAus its really cold!-2C I think?

[spimps]

Wine is a living organism according to producers and will be dead if kept in those temps,strongly advise you contact vintners to check on storage temps.
Did a wine store room some while ago and rang three separate vintners to ask for the storage temps and all said 15c and 16 for young wines.
Would also the customer aware of this.
Chilling them down for drinking should be done as close to drinking as possible,even whites shouldn't be store for more than a couple of days at drinking temperature,don't have that problem in our house.

Not important for the below £10 bottles but if is serving connoisseurs with the expensive wines he'll have a lot returned from the table as no good if they have been chilled for more than a few hours.

[Crypton]

Intresting, I have well got my temps wrong. There is a lot more to it than I expected with wine and beer.... Thanks.

[sean1]

i had the same sort for a cheese shop (ie glass doors and specific temps to each room)we new the customer quite well but the architect set the "required" anyway qoutes varied from 16k to 60k but after speaking to another company who qouted we realised it was best to walk away needless to say the customer chose the 16k quote -last i heard they want us to go fix the job (rooms just aint right-wat they said- did mention you cant see through the doors) and do a report on what we felt was wrong - we declined the offer

[Crypton]

[Crypton]

The finished verison. We left the glass to the builder in the end. They changed it completly from what they wanted originally. Thanks for all your help

[Crypton]

More info required...



I went back to the off licence today to drop in a letter about a maintenance contract. I had already told the owner that it was his responsibility to check to see what temp the wine should be kept at, and that beer should not be kept at the same temp as the wine. One of his sons was there when I went into the shop and I asked him were they storing the wine and beer in the same room. He told me that they had mostly beer in the room but they also had some wine. He told me they bought a seperate fridge for the wine going on what I had said to his father about not storing wine and beer at the same temp and that he had found out there was no need to buy the seperate fridge that they could be stored at the same temp. He told me his coldroom was set for 5c and the new double door fridge was set for 5c also. I was a bit shocked to hear that someone from a wine company had said to store it at 5c and there was no problem in doing so. All the wine they store in the fridge is white wine obviously .Does anyone have any specific info on this matter so I can show to the owner or prove I was not talking ****?
Much appreciated if you have.

Thanks again.

Crypton....

[old gas bottle]

just show them how to ajust the controller,let the customer set the room to what suites there needs,not your problem i think you will be lucky not to get condensation problems without heated glass though in some ambient conditions be carefull on your equipement selection asswell,that can make all the differance nice looking job there.

[mad fridgie]

More info required...



I went back to the off licence today to drop in a letter about a maintenance contract. I had already told the owner that it was his responsibility to check to see what temp the wine should be kept at, and that beer should not be kept at the same temp as the wine. One of his sons was there when I went into the shop and I asked him were they storing the wine and beer in the same room. He told me that they had mostly beer in the room but they also had some wine. He told me they bought a seperate fridge for the wine going on what I had said to his father about not storing wine and beer at the same temp and that he had found out there was no need to buy the seperate fridge that they could be stored at the same temp. He told me his coldroom was set for 5c and the new double door fridge was set for 5c also. I was a bit shocked to hear that someone from a wine company had said to store it at 5c and there was no problem in doing so. All the wine they store in the fridge is white wine obviously .Does anyone have any specific info on this matter so I can show to the owner or prove I was not talking ****?
Much appreciated if you have.

Thanks again.

Crypton....

I think you were a bit premature with your advice without knowing exactly what product he was storing.
How to get round this with out looking like a pilock.
You thought he was storing red wine. (need to be warmer)
You thought he was storing traditional keg beer (need to be stored above 10C)to warm for white if to be drunk. (any small brewery can confirm this, standard beer cellar temps)
You thought he was storing larger and alca-pops (need to be stored at 0C) to cold for white.

[Heronhill]

I need help with a coldroom design. I am installing a new coldroom in an offlicence and the client is looking for the usual coldroom design. He wants the front wall of the coldroom to be glass with an electronic sliding door. The width of the front wall is only 2500mm wide with the opening of the double sliding door of 1200mm wide. Height of front wall 2600mm, height of door standard. The room will hold chilled wine and beer so the room temp will be 3c. The whole idea of this room will be that the customers can walk into the offlicence and can see straight into the room.Will the glass have to be double glazed? The fact that there will be a constant flow of people entering the room and picking their product will this have any effect on the refrigeration plant design? Has anyone any experience with designing something similar?
please help.....

Heronhill get involved in supplying equipment for 'up-market' wine cellars - see the attached link to their website where you will see an example of a double glazed wine store for a house in Mayfair which had a Marstair ducted air conditioning system maintain 12 degrees C and a Nordmann RC300/222 humidifier. You can get hold of Heronhill on 01823 665660

[Frikkie]

I know that some of our local wine farms have their cooledstorage at around 10 to 12 C. They also use less temperature differential across the evaporator and let the condensation drip on the floor of the room to keep the humidity higher. If not the corks in the wine bottles dry out too much.