Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    gitster a/c's Avatar
    gitster a/c Guest

    Post TM44 A/C inspections.



    As an engineer who is going through the paperwork to get TM44 qualified it makes me think that some people should not be doing this.
    I came to the conclusion by following up a few TM44 investigations (if you can call it that).
    I checked what was being said and lots of refrigeration issues like condenser coils covered in oil and other issues were missed and all that was said was that we can save you money by installing an invertor fan drive etc.
    Is this just for the people in suits who know that an A/C unit blows either hot or cold, Maybe its just me being silly ,Would be good to here what other people think.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    London
    Age
    42
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    Hi there,

    How far down the line are you with it?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NOTTINGHAM
    Posts
    9
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    how much was your course and who was it for !!! what is thew point of the inpections if they are missing actual problems or issues other than assthetics !! and controller temps , i have the inspection report long wined it is.

    Seems like a joke for 995.00 ?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    London
    Age
    42
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    hi mate sorry for late reply!!!

    I have started doing them so money is paying back, the only benefit the customer gets is if the person doing it knows what he is doing and is not visually inspecting as the more invasive the better obviously!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    67
    Posts
    141
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    That's the problem with TM44 it is a 'non invasive' inspection. The only way anything can generally be achieved is through 'invasive' inspection.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    uk
    Age
    51
    Posts
    122
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    Hi all

    I think most are missing the point with the TM44, if you want an invasive inspection, thats a maintenance visit by a certified engineer, air conditioning energy assessment, its all about letting customers know what they have installed, making sure they are using the equipment right and know how it should be maintained, lets face it a lot dont have a clue, they just turn it on and whack it down to 16c

    For those who are curious, here is officialy what its all about.

    Extract from TM44

    "The primary aim of the inspection is to give building
    owners and operators information about the performance
    of their buildings and plant, and to identify opportunities
    to save energy and cut operating costs."


    Extract from A Guide to Business on Air Conditioning.

    An energy inspection of your air conditioning system involves a visual assessment of your air conditioning installation. The inspector will examine the equipment
    and, air movement systems and controls. Additionally, access to plant rooms or rooftop locations will be required. Following the inspection, the inspector will provide you with a report containing:


    • The current efficiency of your equipment and suggestions for improvement
    including, where appropriate, its replacement
    • A list of any faults identified (e.g. condition of air filters) during the inspection and suggested actions
    • The adequacy of the equipment maintenance and suggestions for improvement
    • The adequacy of the installed controls and control settings and suggestions for improvement
    • The current size of the installed system in relation to the cooling load
    • Suggestions for improving the system’s energy efficiency, or, where appropriate
    minimising or avoiding the need for air conditioning
    You are under no obligation to act on the advice provided in the inspection report.
    However, if you do so, it is likely you will reduce energy consumption and costs.


    I agree, some one in the trade will do a far better report, because we know what things are.

    For some one new to air conditioning they would have to do a diploma to get acredited (and quite rightly so), which believe me is long winded and involves a lot of research and complicated exams, they also have to do 6 actual reports and I bet they struggle for some one to let them loose on one of their sites, thats why I assume there is a shortage of assessor's and complience is low.

    For us fridgies, there is is shortcut, as the powers that be understand that people in the trade already know most of whats required for the Diploma, and that is APEL route.

    I am registered with BRE Global and recomend them.

    Personally, when i started i though it was a load of crap legislation, but the more i do, the more im shocked as to how much dosh our customers waste and how desperate/willing they are to do some thing about it.


    Check out the website above, its a group of companies around that have been paid to carry out every inspection in spection in TM44, to see how long it takes and see what systems are like before and after a service then publish the results, i belive its not finished yet

    Its a bit basic but good ammo to get that PO for that maintenance contract your chasing, or if you are an assessor working out how much you are going to charge.




    Last edited by coolments; 24-07-2010 at 02:21 AM.

  7. #7
    AndyPumper's Avatar
    AndyPumper Guest

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    Hi Coolments and everyone else

    I've been in the trade for over 3 years now mainly installing and assisting in commisioning mitsy city multi vrf's in new-build schools/colleges, car garages and hotels. (also worked with daikin, toshiba, lg and sanyo on other projects) Bout 75% of the work we end up in digs for the week because of the location and due to personal responsibilities I'm looking to work locally but want to stay in the air con trade. I've been contacted by an ACI company called ACI Reports offering me an APEL course in air con inspection which would result in me being accredited by a certification company called stroma and would place me on ACI Reports "1st tier panal" to recieve work. I really like the idea of doing this but have researched it on the net and found that the complience rate for businesses arranging to have these inspections is very low. Then again I've been in contact with ACI Reports and they say they have some big contracts set up, are short on energy assesors and that the ACI industry is likely to kick off around semptember as the non-complience issue is being resolved with the government finally. As good as this all sounds I can't help being sceptical about it as ACI wants 1000 quid for just a 1 day course, but they also promise free anual membership, low lodgement costs, access to CPD and ongoing training events, pay per click PI and PL insurance, panal membership for your respective postcode and they take care of marketing, work management, contracts etc and deliver work to you. Would appreciate if anyone in this line of air con work could confirm whether this side of the industry is existant at the moment or will be in the near future as I don't fancy chucking away a grand to then be told there are no inspections.

    Thanks for any feedback

    Andy

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    uk
    Age
    51
    Posts
    122
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    Hi Andy

    Sorry for delay in getting back to this.

    They maybe ok, but consider that Stroma offer free membership as they get their money from lodgements, and their APEL route is cheaper.

    I would go for it as there is a clamp down on legislation bubbling at the mimnute, but i reccomemd doing your training through a company that also has in house accreditation schemes like Stroma or BRE, i went to a smaller training provider first and they went bump and took my 3k with them. Then had to pay again £750 with BRE who I wish i had gone to in the first place.

    When your accredited go back to ACI for work.

    Note: Go for level 4 as well, thats where the money is and also the most interesting assessments.

    Regards, Ian

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    London
    Age
    42
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    Quote Originally Posted by coolments View Post
    Hi Andy

    Sorry for delay in getting back to this.

    They maybe ok, but consider that Stroma offer free membership as they get their money from lodgements, and their APEL route is cheaper.

    I would go for it as there is a clamp down on legislation bubbling at the mimnute, but i reccomemd doing your training through a company that also has in house accreditation schemes like Stroma or BRE, i went to a smaller training provider first and they went bump and took my 3k with them. Then had to pay again £750 with BRE who I wish i had gone to in the first place.

    When your accredited go back to ACI for work.

    Note: Go for level 4 as well, thats where the money is and also the most interesting assessments.

    Regards, Ian
    Hi Andy, Gents,

    I think it is a matter of time before it does kick off, at the moment people are not too bothered by it, i have done level3 and 4 inspections and i would warn you against level 4 like Ian recommends, as your experience is only 3 years in the industry. Some level 4 systems are very complex and need years of experience.

    CIBSE are a good choice of route, they are very finicky on the APEL which i think contributes to a better understanding of the guidelines.

    That link to Harmon AC IS QUITE INTERESTING AND SOME REPROTS INDICATE WHAT A ENERGY SURVEY SHOULD ENTAIL.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Isle of Wight, Uk
    Age
    47
    Posts
    425
    Rep Power
    20

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    How are you getting on with the inspections? Was it worth the money? any feedback much appreciated.

    Andy

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    surrey
    Age
    60
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    I completed course with BRE and it was great. I am now getting lots of instructions for Level 3 (packaged) and Level 4 (centralised) and it was worth the time and money. But is is only now that instructions are coming in. I qualified in April 20010 and not got any interest until September. The rush will pass soon and it will go back to a low ebb. I also do energy report on the building too, so look at building fabric, solar protection etc. changing lighting to more energy efficient types to reduce the cooling demand. Most of the enrgy savings in ACIs are to do with poor A/C settings and controls and people programing things on when nobody is there. Massive saving to be has from reviewing filter strategy within the AHUs. Like anything, the more you do, the better you become. e-mail me if you need a quote rgds Ed
    ed.farmer@ntlworld.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    surrey
    Age
    60
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    The hamonac web site is esp. good for identifying ECOs Energy Conservation Opportunities of which 150 or so have been identifed into different categories .... which are useful for the ACI report writing. see
    Lots of useful data / information to download FOC
    rgds
    Ed ed.farmer@ntlworld.com

    HARMONAC is a project supported by the Intelligent Energy Europe initiative. It addresses the practical issues arising from the need for regular inspection of air-conditioning systems of over 12 kW cooling capacity as required by the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive (EPBD).

    The primary aim of the HARMONAC project is therefore to provide by November 2010 a robust source of information on the energy and carbon savings to be made from various aspects of the A/C inspection process, together with the time required and the relative costs.
    The project will provide details of the energy performance of installed AC systems from around the EU, the details coming from nearly 600 inspections and 40 Case Studies with accompanying energy consumption measurements.
    Outputs from the project will highlight the most common problems and Energy Conservation Opportunities (ECO) noted during these inspections, along with the range of energy savings achieved from rectifying the problems and implementing the ECOs.
    The project will also provide guidance on the frequency of inspection required to achieve various levels of energy savings in various system types and sizes. This will enable Member States to make informed decisions about the required scope and likely impact of the inspection procedures to be implemented in their country.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    surrey
    Age
    60
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    I agree with Ian/Andy? comments that L4 systems (not all) take some time to get your head around as to what is happening. I recognise 20 years experience takes 20 years and there is really no short cut method of getting 20 years experience. Though if you looking for a short, using the data from the Harmonas project allows you to read the experiences of assessors who have complied 600+ ACI projects. I am sure somebody with 20 yrs experience would learn something as you never really stop learning.
    rgds Ed

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    devon
    Age
    52
    Posts
    837
    Rep Power
    24

    Re: TM44 A/C inspections.

    i believe its a case of running before we can walk we have one engineer on the company doing up to l4 and to be fair most companys are not interrested at moment until someone gets fined i cant sea it altering my comment reguards the irregularities in training as a engineer for several years and always willing to learn last march myself and another engineer done our j11 with a national training company i looked forward to course because in my book training makes you better my point being the difference in money between various firms and how poor our course was the point of qualifacations is to make us better and when we finished i felt ripped off they passed guys who could not make a flare shureley it has to get better

Similar Threads

  1. Cibse tm44
    By yinmorrison in forum Air Conditioning
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 28-03-2011, 05:13 PM
  2. Air conditioning inspections
    By billywizz in forum Air Conditioning
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-12-2008, 09:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •