Non payment after court hearing!! - help plz!

[murphybrent]

What do i do now?

Just over 2 weeks ago we took a company to court for non payment for work that was done on a sub contracting basis!

The court award that the other company was to pay a certain figure (hardly enough in my eyes!) to ourselves within 14 days! 14 days has arrived and gone and still no money!

What do we do now?...............I have rung the court who said that they will send out an enforcement pack but it will take quite a while to get anything sorted!!

What is an enforcement pack?

I was wondering if anyone on here could give me any advise other than NEVER WORK FOR THAT COMPANY AGAIN!! (i have learnt my lesson on that one!!)

[eggs]

What do we do now?...............

Cough....cough.......this happened to a "friend" of mine. Funnily enough the outdoor boards disappeared, the internal wires all got cut and all the visible pipework ended up crushed.
Must have cost them a fortune to sort it out.

Of course i don't condone this sort of behavior, it's just a story i heared.

eggs

[murphybrent]

That thought did cross my mind!!! lol

[chemi-cool]

By hurting the other side, you will not gain a thing.

What you want is your money back, or at least most of it.

From past experience, there are individuals who supply that special service. Its not legal but it works.

This is what I would have done.

[Tesla]

Not sure ablut the law from where you are. When I ran a company in NZ if another company was ordered by a court to pay and didn't, you could take further action to have the non paying company closed down. Could you do this?

[lowcool]

i would say that the courts have awarded you payment thus verifying that you are the owner of any parts/goods used until full payment has been received,it is your property!go back and repossess them preferably during a busy period with lots of eyes and ears around.i dont know how this applies with contracted labour.
i cant see any reason why you cannot lodge an application to have the company wound up!i have had to go this direction myself,have a chat with your local debt collector but i would go straight to a solicitor and get the ball rolling as its already passed through court.

SIC EM big time!!!!!!!

[John MacK]

What do i do now?

Just over 2 weeks ago we took a company to court for non payment for work that was done on a sub contracting basis!

The court award that the other company was to pay a certain figure (hardly enough in my eyes!) to ourselves within 14 days! 14 days has arrived and gone and still no money!

What do we do now?...............I have rung the court who said that they will send out an enforcement pack but it will take quite a while to get anything sorted!!

What is an enforcement pack?

I was wondering if anyone on here could give me any advise other than NEVER WORK FOR THAT COMPANY AGAIN!! (i have learnt my lesson on that one!!)

Have you used a lawyer to get to this stage, I would contact them again and get them back on the case.
If not wait and see what the court 'pack' says.
Depending on what the judgement was that was awarded to you, you may need to go back to court over the non-payment of the award.

[yinmorrison]

Presumably since you took them to Court you are not on speaking terms with the Company concerned?
If that is the case and you need money quickly, take the Court papers to your local Sheriff's Officers who usually operate near the Courts in question.
You will have to pay them, however they send in the 'heavies' and enforce a poinding of the Companies property and goods unless they are given the money in cash or Bank Draft.
It will cost you maybe £200 or so but the Company you are owed the money from will also have to pay this cost too.
Usually works. Certainly has for me. HMRC do it this way as well.

[Abe]

I have been posting a reply to this thread since yesterday and each time after typing out a long reply pc hung up.....Grrr

So Ill try again, heres fingers crossed. You can either use the court bailiff to enforce the debt/judgement, ( cheaper option) or get the Sheriffs Department, more expensive, but these guys dont mess about.

Alternatives;
How much are you being owed?
If over £750.00 issue a Statutory Demand. You can at this stage. This will effectively bankrupt the company.

Charging Order
Do they own any property? I mean the company. If yes, make an application for a charging order on their property. Its a fairly straightforward process.

Good Luck and keep us posted on how you getting on

[murphybrent]

Thanks for all your replies!

We have today received a POST DATED CHEQUE!! as the company does not have any money until the date of the cheque! or that is what they have told our solicitor.

Solicitor advises that we cant do anymore until we put the cheque in the bank in another week and see if it bounces or not!! So either way he still has won at the minute as we are still without our money.

Fingers crossed now!

thanks again

[croc1774]

sorry to here this m8
a previous employer i worked for subed a job out and he didnt pay them, w.....
he owed them £12000 they took him to court and so on.
in the end it cost him £38000 inc all cost for solicitors etc.
all i can say is dont give in and fight for it.

[Clk320_Greg]

im mid battle for 300 quid, it wasnt worth the paperwork but its the principle! The guy has now buggered off to Auz to start a new life, so im writeing to the auz high commision to let the know he lied on his visa app!

Ill get him slowly!

Good luck with yous mate!

[Quality]

I have been posting a reply to this thread since yesterday and each time after typing out a long reply pc hung up.....Grrr

So Ill try again, heres fingers crossed. You can either use the court bailiff to enforce the debt/judgement, ( cheaper option) or get the Sheriffs Department, more expensive, but these guys dont mess about.

Alternatives;
How much are you being owed?
If over £750.00 issue a Statutory Demand. You can at this stage. This will effectively bankrupt the company.

Charging Order
Do they own any property? I mean the company. If yes, make an application for a charging order on their property. Its a fairly straightforward process.

Good Luck and keep us posted on how you getting on

this sort of information is price less to those that need to know, cause not everyone knows these area`s

[Andy]

Hi

In N.I we don't have Baliffs or a court Sheriff. So if someone doesn't pay after court the only option is to bankrupt them.
Problem with that is most companies in that situation, have deferred their tax and vat bills. The government get paid first when you bankrupt them, and anything left is paid out to the other creditors. Quite often 5p to 20p in the £ are all you get.

Kind Regards Andy

[Magoo]

Forget the legal system, that will send you broke.
If the cheque bounces, do a dawn raid and rip all your gear out, and re-sell it. This will be less than you are owed, but screws the other guy totally. Let him take you to court, highly unlikely on average. Plus claim the loss as a tax deduction, and add all expenses as well.

[bruisermac]

i agree with magoo. take back ur equipment.

[frank]

To take back the equipment once it has been fixed into the property would be breaking the law.

Once it is fixed it legally becomes part of the structure and the property of the owner - paid for or not. You can only claim it back if it is unfixed and not paid for, providing you have retention of title.

If the debt is for labour only you have no option other than to go through the court system.

Speaking from experience of course.

Damn legal system stinks in the UK.

[Abe]

We last heard from Murphybrent on 3.9.09. so we need an update.

Would like to know if the cheque was honoured. If it was, good, matter over.

If still owed money then enforcement action to commence.

Warrant of execution by court bailiffs or the court sheriff. Pretty effective.
Other options:
Property charging order
attachment of earnings order
statutory demand
theres a couple more

[Peter_1]

To take back the equipment once it has been fixed into the property would be breaking the law.

Once it is fixed it legally becomes part of the structure and the property of the owner - paid for or not. You can only claim it back if it is unfixed and not paid for, providing you have retention of title.

If the debt is for labour only you have no option other than to go through the court system.

Speaking from experience of course.

Damn legal system stinks in the UK.

Exactly the same here Frank, once it's fixed, it becomes property of the owner

[desA]

The issue then, it appears, is to have a way of installing equipment, such that it only becomes a 'fixture' once it is paid for.

I'll bet that there would be a cunning way to bypass the law here, for installers eg. temporary retaining screws/bolts whatever - final to be installed upon last payment. You get the drift. One bolt missing - not fully fixed - etc.

Be imaginative & then move around the letter of the law, while still following the spirit of the law.

[Peter_1]

Even if you've drilled a hole in the wall to fit your tubes through, it then becomes already the property of the owner.
Best way is a payment in advance and a signed contract.

[Peter_1]

Be imaginative & then move around the letter of the law, while still following the spirit of the law.

In the past, we refused once to start-up ( we didn't add the gas in the system of a pack) until 95% of our invoices were paid. This was also mentioned in the small letters of our contract.

[desA]

^ Good one, Peter... That's the spirit.

[fridge doctor]

A friend of mine back in the UK is an enforcement officer (bailiff). You can contact any bailiff yourself, they will tell you what can and cannot be done. Quite often, my friend just sends a carefully worded letter and when they see 'BAILIFF' on the headed notepaper, they panic and pay up

[Magoo]

Court ballifs, debt collectors only work if the recipient has a dollar. Been there done that and lost large percentages for the privilage of doing the right thing. Add your wasted productive time to the formula, and either write it of as a tax deduction, or screw the law and reclaim your equipement. They say pocession is 9 tenths of the law. You own it and re-sell it. Cost recovery is low. If client wants it back he pays 10 times.
mongrel magoo

[jimmylcoleman]

Here, here

[jimmylcoleman]

Amazing...no matter where we live in this world, getting shafted by the customer allways feels the same.

[desA]

Somehow these 'legal systems' all seem to prejudice the installer. Practical recovery of money seems to be so incredibly stacked against the small business-person.

Recovery & vigilante actions are then logical conclusions.

What has modern society come to? It is an indictment against our so-called enlightened societies.

[B G Scott]

I know it will not always get you your payment but if the company is still trading and you get the feeling that to continue in business is important to them and if they are a Limited company, take out a winding up petition is will scare the day lights out of them.
You do have to remember that there is no point in trying to get money from a man of straw, you might just be sending good money after bad, most of us have been in your position at some time and it does make you a bit more hard nosed in the future.

[Peter_1]

"Court ballifs", is it ballifs or baillifs?
I think that's whatwe call in Dutch Gerechtsdeurwaarder

[Abe]

I think the lesson is:-

Why on earth do businesses extend credit?

If I buy a packet of soap from a supermarket, do I pay after I have had a bath?

Same principle

Customer wants an air conditioning system. Breakdown is:

Cost of materials: £5000.00
Cost of installation £2500.00
Total £7500.00

So:

First: Make him sign a contract. if you dont have one get one. What will it cost? £100.00 ??

Set out your terms and conditions, at the outset. Remember that if you dont get paid, it is the customers breach and youre covered.

Remember to add a ROT, ( retention of title clause

Now.

Deposit up front: £5000.00
At start up of installation: £1000.00
Half way through the job £1000.00
At end £ 500.00

At end: Start up, test, commission, make sure it works.
Disconnect remote controller, remove fuses or do something which only you know which will stop the unit from starting.

Now ask for the balance: £500.00
If you get this:

Reconnect remote controller, hand over remote.
Replace fuses. Leave unit operational

If you dont get the last £500.00
Breach of contract. Issue proceedings;

Under the Civil Procedure Rules the Pre Action Protocol applies

First:
Letter of claim, in compliance with CPR
Then court

This way:

Youve lost only £500.00 plus legal costs.
Dont delay, Claim today

And most of all:

You dont have Distributor chasing money. They have been paid.
Workers have been paid.
All youve lost is the last part, or profit.

And:

If he gets another contractor to hook up fuses, or " to rectify some part which you have "deliberately" crossed, left out, to prevent operation, then you can say, Warranty void"

This way your losses are minimal. And, do you think he wants a system on the wall that is not working?

[Abe]

I know it will not always get you your payment but if the company is still trading and you get the feeling that to continue in business is important to them and if they are a Limited company, take out a winding up petition is will scare the day lights out of them.
.

You can only issue a Statutory Demand once youve obtained a default judgement. The sum owing must be over £750.00

[B G Scott]

You can only issue a Statutory Demand once youve obtained a default judgement. The sum owing must be over £750.00

You are correct but I have used the threat of an application for a winding up order to have the desired effect without the cost and formal pre-conditions associated with a winding up order.
The County Court system is a very poor system for getting paid, a CCJ does not have much effect on some companies, individuals if they are intent on avoiding paying for goods and services.