Is it possible?

[frank]

Is it possible to get the NVQ level 2 without knowing anything, or working alongside an experienced engineer?

I ask the question as I have been told a little story about a student at the local college who works for his father in a building trade related position, but has nothing to do with refrigeration.

The father has registered a new company with an Air Conditioning name so the lad goes to college and registers and then says he works for this new company.

The new company is not actively trading and does not employ any refrigeration engineers.

The lad attends the local college on day release for the past 2 years and studies, but from all accounts, he is struggling to understand the basics, even after 2 years.

Apparently, his level 2 portfolio is full of pictures of AC installs and repairs that he has photographed while working on the same site as the equipment, but has not carried out the work, and his father has signed the sheets off.

The time when the college tutor attended for the obligatory site visit, he showed the tutor some AC kit that had been installed by a 'proper' company and made out it was his own install.

Is this acceptable? Can it be done?

Any comments appreciated.

[1torr]

Hi Frank. I really hope not, but judjing by the standard of level 2 chaps I have had with me in the past I am having second thoughts.

[taz24]

Is it possible to get the NVQ level 2 without knowing anything, or working alongside an experienced engineer?

I ask the question as I have been told a little story about a student at the local college who works for his father in a building trade related position, but has nothing to do with refrigeration.

The father has registered a new company with an Air Conditioning name so the lad goes to college and registers and then says he works for this new company.

The new company is not actively trading and does not employ any refrigeration engineers.

The lad attends the local college on day release for the past 2 years and studies, but from all accounts, he is struggling to understand the basics, even after 2 years.

Apparently, his level 2 portfolio is full of pictures of AC installs and repairs that he has photographed while working on the same site as the equipment, but has not carried out the work, and his father has signed the sheets off.

The time when the college tutor attended for the obligatory site visit, he showed the tutor some AC kit that had been installed by a 'proper' company and made out it was his own install.

Is this acceptable? Can it be done?

Any comments appreciated.

Hi Frank.

It is not acceptable but it could be possible.

Hopfully the exams will show the lad out to be stuggling and he will fail. The ideal site visit for the tutor would be to see the lad working, but somtimes it does not always work like that and there is a lot of trust involed.

Also hopfully the write ups will show up a lack of experience and understanding. If the father is encouraging this though, all the evidence could be suspect.

Just hope he wasn't one of mine.

taz.

.

[multisync]

Hi Frank.

It is not acceptable but it could be possible.

Hopfully the exams will show the lad out to be stuggling and he will fail. The ideal site visit for the tutor would be to see the lad working, but somtimes it does not always work like that and there is a lot of trust involed.

Also hopfully the write ups will show up a lack of experience and understanding. If the father is encouraging this though, all the evidence could be suspect.

Just hope he wasn't one of mine.

taz.

.

That's a worrying admission..

[taz24]

That's a worrying admission..

Maybe but true.

Think about it.

The college see the lad for abut a total of 6 months spread over 2 years.

A relationship is built up and the student is supported in many ways to better him self.

The lad is away from college more than he is at college and his work is evidenced by his company, supervisors, customers, senior engineers and site visits by an assessor.

Now if the lad is lieing and people arround him are conspiring to encouraging him, there is a real prblem.

He will have to sit the exams himself and if he is struggling that will shw his lack of knowledge.

Perfect no!! Ideal no!!

If someone sets out to decieve and he is helped by others, will they get away with it?

It is possible that some people may slip through the system. Does it make me proud that it may happen and as a tutor / assessor it does bother me that we might get caught out.

Hopfully there are enough checks and ballences built into the system to ensure that someone who is not capable is recognised.
What do you do if someone sets out to cheat the system and is helped to do it? I don't know, lets hope it does not happen to offten and lets hope that the systems in place do recognise such practices.

Is it perfect? Maybe not. Is it ideal? maybe not. Does it happen? possibly. Nowt straight forward in life eh???

taz.

[abdulazman]

Bravo taz on a well written submission But in reality what franks implies do happen . Who suffers? of course the customer and the cost will be absorbed by the end users .

[desA]

First 'real' job the kid & his dad do, will probably bankrupt their company anyway... lol

[abdulazman]

Think positives man ,
Let them go bankrupt, what we care .
They buy people, bribe people, make people believe
they are professional. They bribe those customer, especially people who sits at the top .
But..... they create more jobs for honest refrigeration engineers .
When the customer loss trust in them thats when they loose a lot of doe or before they go broke serve them right also, the customer will immediately sought real professional engineers.
People who really knows and care about the trade.
Cheer up mate .

[Pooh]

Frank
as Taz states it is possible but both Taz and I have seen evidence that we have identified as suspect and refused to claim the award unfortunately when you take the money involved which is paid for completion of the award by the government there is another incentive for people to let these things slip through.

This sort of thing should be stopped before it is started and I do beleive it should not be possible for an apprentice to be trained by a non competent engineer but how this would be policed is hard to imagine.

I know personally that there are assessors out there assessing refrigeration qualifications that have never worked as refrigeration engineers and some who would not know a fridge if it hit them in the back of the neck.

These guys have the right to decide wether you and I are competent as engineers. That cant be right. And there are loads more jumping on the FGas band wagon.

Ian
Pooh

[frank]

I've been made aware that the local college is aware of the situation, so, hopefully, the lad in question will be monitored closely.

I haven't informed them by the way.

As said earlier, he has to take the online exams, so hopefully, this will flag up his lack of knowledge.

I still can't understand why someone would do this (student that is). If you blag your way through college, surely you are not knowledgeable enough at the end of the day to go out and earn money doing the job?

College is where we learn the technical stuff and get assessed by the more experienced engineers/tutors. Why try and bypass the learning process if this is what you signed up for in the first place?

[Pooh]

Frank
Cos they can and make loads of money, give the legitimate companies a bad name and rip the suppliers off when they get found out and go bankrupt which in the end puts our costs up.

OOPs is that me being synical?

Ian
Pooh