R22 venting?!?

[Gary]

Where have I once said I actually believe the environmental nonsense? I don't but I agree with these laws only wish it went much further and was enforced far stricter than it ever will be..

I am not surprised. Your only interest in all of this is in using the laws to fleece your customers. You are no better than the politicians.

And good luck with fleecing your customers... the politicians are going to bleed you dry and kick you to the curb... you are the mark.

[jdunc2301]

I havent checked this post for a few days!
Checking it out sat in the rain and theres talk of dictators and all sorts.


All i wanted to know, was what people thought of a suspected Engineer venting!

Its obvious that someone has got a bee in his bonnet and does'nt agree with 'certain' laws and the 'creators' of these laws.
Myself? I will carry on practising what i was taught and what the laws dictate i should do.

If the laws change and do not stipulate reclaiming etc, i will be the first to ditch it, afterall it can be a pain!
But until then its law... Its good practice and i honestly believe it sets engineers apart, i look forward to the day that someone is caught, and prosecuted.
That will be the only way to prevent these bad practices!

F gas regulations on leak checking will NOT be adhered to by smaller customers until... One of the big firms gets a slap in the face for it, if Tesco Asda M&S received
A large fine which would be reflected on the news, smaller customers and operators will adhere to the law.

Can this post be closed as its just a Mess! And quite dissapointing at how patronising the answers and posts have become.

[multisync]

gary i take it you dont like the fgas then

I honestly don't believe he has a clue what these laws are about, he's sitting with his tinfoil hat on in the blazin sun ranting about consipricy plus a few of his amusing early childhood days of slavery, burning witches and such stuff. (it was obviously tough for him back then...)

[multisync]

I havent checked this post for a few days!
Checking it out sat in the rain and theres talk of dictators and all sorts.


All i wanted to know, was what people thought of a suspected Engineer venting!

Its obvious that someone has got a bee in his bonnet and does'nt agree with 'certain' laws and the 'creators' of these laws.
Myself? I will carry on practising what i was taught and what the laws dictate i should do.

If the laws change and do not stipulate reclaiming etc, i will be the first to ditch it, afterall it can be a pain!
But until then its law... Its good practice and i honestly believe it sets engineers apart, i look forward to the day that someone is caught, and prosecuted.
That will be the only way to prevent these bad practices!

F gas regulations on leak checking will NOT be adhered to by smaller customers until... One of the big firms gets a slap in the face for it, if Tesco Asda M&S received
A large fine which would be reflected on the news, smaller customers and operators will adhere to the law.

Can this post be closed as its just a Mess! And quite dissapointing at how patronising the answers and posts have become.

Before you go can I just say 'fair play'

You are the future of this industry and I wish you great success

[multisync]

I am not surprised. Your only interest in all of this is in using the laws to fleece your customers. You are no better than the politicians.

And good luck with fleecing your customers... the politicians are going to bleed you dry and kick you to the curb... you are the mark.

So do you stand by your remark "The bodgers are getting it done"

My interest is to drive out these bodgers you seem to want to keep in our industry.
My interest is to drive up quality, training, standards and image.

If you consider this 'fleecing' then I feel sorry for you...

[Gary]

So do you stand by your remark "The bodgers are getting it done"

My interest is to drive out these bodgers you seem to want to keep in our industry.
My interest is to drive up quality, training, standards and image.

If you consider this 'fleecing' then I feel sorry for you...

The laws have absolutely nothing to do with quality, training, standards or image. They are about taking your money.

You would like to believe that anyone who doesn't have the governments blessing can't possibly know what they are doing, but if that were so then you would prosper by cleaning up their mistakes and you wouldn't be complaining about them.

Obviously the bodgers are getting it done or you wouldn't be whining about them. I hope they put you out of business.

You believe that paying off the government gives you a license to steal. It doesn't work that way. The license doesn't matter. Training is what matters. Doing the job right is what matters. If you can't compete without the government eliminating your competition for you, then the quality of your work must really suck.

[Gary]

Before I retired, I belonged to a union. The union shops had no problem competing with the non-union shops because the quality of their work really was better. Not because they held union cards, but because they provided ongoing training for their members. Training is what matters. The quality of the work is what matters.

My union didn't whine about the non-union shops or petition the government to put them out of business. They competed on quality.

But then there are unions and there are unions. Some unions just take the members money, provide no training and constantly whine about their inability to compete with the non-union bodgers. (Their definition of bodger, actually they call them scabs, is anyone who does not have a union card. Is that you?) They take the money and give nothing in return... just like the government.

[Gary]

Before you go can I just say 'fair play'

You are the future of this industry and I wish you great success

The industry is moving toward easy installs and self-diagnostics... and eventually they will get it right.

Who will you inform on then?... what good will it do you?

There are two ways to compete: You can outrun the other guy or you can reach out and trip him. Which strategy do you subscribe to?

[jdunc2301]

The laws have absolutely nothing to do with quality, training, standards or image. They are about taking your money.

You would like to believe that anyone who doesn't have the governments blessing can't possibly know what they are doing, but if that were so then you would prosper cleaning up their mistakes and you wouldn't be complaining about the bodgers.

To a certain extent i agree, all of my training was work based, riding around in the van with the boss. I didn't have a NVQ college course near me!
As and when i was ready the company put me in to do certain short training courses with an approved body, this was mainly incase an accident happened at work any qualifications would hopefully show that i was competent in brazing for example.....

To be honest everytime i was on these courses i would sit with 10-15 guys aged 16-60 and i can honestly say 90% did not have a clue.... most had completed NVQ's and presumed that because they completed their training they knew their stuff!! Unfortunately they didn't. But they still passed the courses, the course was made to pass.
When i say they didn't know their stuff it was very obvious, the teacher would have to squeeze answers from them and the simplest questions puzzled these guys.
So its true... having a certificate does not mean you are the dogs knackers nor does it mean you know what your doing.

HOWEVER... with the new F Gas qualification and the older safe handling certificate which covers issue's like venting refrigerants and poor practice whilst handling refrigerants.

When i attended the course to renew my ticket yet again i was shocked at how little some people knew and the technical knowledge made me really wonder how they managed day by day.
This time the engineers who didn't know their job failed! They have to retest which means they have to learn to pass the test.

If not wiping out bad practice, the tighter and harder test's and qualifications will discourage cowboys and engineers who frankly have no idea what they are doing from continuing in the industry......

Yes some engineers have no qualifications and yes it is a pain to go and get certified, surely if they are confident with their work they have nothing to worry about do they???

If your an installer or engineer that is not entirely confident with the theory and good practices of the industry, attending training courses will refresh your knowledge and make you a better engineer.
Won't it?

Many engineers on the F gas course did not know what superheat was!! (A youg guy fresh from college and an older couple of guys 50+).
Certification has its uses and it's pain in the backside side of things.

The industry is moving toward easy installs and self-diagnostics... and eventually they will get it right.

Who will you inform on then?... what good will it do you?


There are two ways to compete: You can outrun the other guy or you can reach out and trip him. Which strategy do you subscribe to?

Yeah unfortunately it is moving towards easy installs and diagnosis....more cowboys can pretend they know their stuff cant they?

I have'nt reported the firm to the police, i have reported them to the site staff (a very nice hotel)
The maintenance manager thanked us for reporting it and will look into the matter at future maintenance visits... i explained to the maintenance manager that it may have been prefectly harmless....recent re gas of the system or the bottle was pressurised with compressed air. But he needs to be aware that if the engineer is venting refrigerant to clean condensers he is breaking the law...ending in poor publicity for the customer's hotel.

There are two ways to compete: You can outrun the other guy or you can reach out and trip him. Which strategy do you subscribe to?

Believe me...i have outran everyone i have ever come across in this industry... i am young and i do not for one second think i know it all, when i dont know something i look for the answer from experienced engineers whom i trust.
Or i crack out my computer and books and learn myself.

I have on many occasion proved my worth to older more experienced engineers and customers!

Even though your a very clever guy (reading your posts) and i believe you have a tech book out, seem like a very grumpy old man, who does not want to change, anyone who believes change...like me..with regards to regulations etc has hot oil poured over them.

I THINK THIS POST SHOULD CLOSE NOW, you and multisync have had your fun and games and your obviously too different to agree!

Oh and for the record thanks multisync it's nice to have encouragement from an older engineer

[Gary]

I THINK THIS POST SHOULD CLOSE NOW, you and multisync have had your fun and games and your obviously too different to agree!

I'm thinking you are probably right... we have both done some venting in this thread... lol

Although I'm not certain that I have fully expressed how I feel about the scum sucking politicians of the world.

[beagle]

Gary, you really need to see how it is here before drawing conclusions. I've seen corner shop owners happily walking away from tradecounters with an expansion valve in one hand and a bottle of 22 in the other, plumbers, boiler engineers and anyone that fancies a go at brazing pipework being sold splits, 15m of pipe and a turbotorch... the list is endless, and that's before you even consider the "dabblers".

It's not just that people mike Multisync need their livelyhood protected, these DIY morons need to be protected from themselves.

[Gary]

Gary, you really need to see how it is here before drawing conclusions. I've seen corner shop owners happily walking away from tradecounters with an expansion valve in one hand and a bottle of 22 in the other, plumbers, boiler engineers and anyone that fancies a go at brazing pipework being sold splits, 15m of pipe and a turbotorch... the list is endless, and that's before you even consider the "dabblers".

This has been going on for as long as I can remember, and that's a very long time. It probably dates back to the invention of refrigeration.

There are those who acquire sufficient skills and training to properly repair their own systems, and more power to them.

Others screw it up and need to call in a service company. They are good for business.

This has been going on forever... in all trades.

It's not just that people mike Multisync need their livelyhood protected, these DIY morons need to be protected from themselves.

Nobody should be protected from competition... and nobody should be protected from themselves. We are responsible for the consequences of our own actions.

The last thing we need is a nanny goverment deciding who will win and who will lose.

Everyone competes... the difference these days is that the playing field has been tilted against you... by the government.

[beagle]

Have to agree to disagree on this one then, don't hold it against me I do enjoy your posts, even the rants

[Gary]

Have you ever repaired a leaky faucet in your home?... or unplugged a drain? Shouldn't you have been forced to call in a licensed plumber, thereby ensuring his livelihood?

[Gary]

Have to agree to disagree on this one then, don't hold it against me I do enjoy your posts, even the rants

Fair enough... and no I don't hold grudges against the misguided.

[multisync]

The laws have absolutely nothing to do with quality, training, standards or image. They are about taking your money.

You would like to believe that anyone who doesn't have the governments blessing can't possibly know what they are doing, but if that were so then you would prosper by cleaning up their mistakes and you wouldn't be complaining about them.

Obviously the bodgers are getting it done or you wouldn't be whining about them. I hope they put you out of business.

You believe that paying off the government gives you a license to steal. It doesn't work that way. The license doesn't matter. Training is what matters. Doing the job right is what matters. If you can't compete without the government eliminating your competition for you, then the quality of your work must really suck.

Don't tell me what I believe or don't believe. You make stuff up then argue as if you know what you're talking about. You don't

It's patently obvious you have not got a clue what these laws are or about. You are just spouting off what you think these laws are.

If anyone is good enough they take a test. If they pass they get a certificate, if they fail they take it again. Just like a driving test. Training is all important because without it they won't pass. As jdunc2301 said the standard of engineers is pitiful. That needs to change. Regulation will force that change. As even you admit the industry won't change itself.

Ironically as champion of the bodgers you don't want them to change or get qualified. Just buy a dodgy Ebook and "whey hey I'm a fridgie"
Your book can only survive with the bodgers still around. Your market is shrinking because those nasty dictators (who always seem to remain nameless but do feel to post a name, come on just one, I know you can do it...) force those poor lidddle bodgers to get proper training not some dodgy Ebook.

The penny's starting to drop, this is all about you protecting your pension.

Champion of the bodgers-No wonder you're bitter and twisted

[multisync]

This has been going on for as long as I can remember, and that's a very long time. It probably dates back to the invention of refrigeration.

There are those who acquire sufficient skills and training to properly repair their own systems, and more power to them.

Others screw it up and need to call in a service company. They are good for business.

This has been going on forever... in all trades.

As usual you stand up for the bodgers, never mind the fact that they go in and rip people off leaving kit broken or damaged or worse still in a potentially fatal condition. The laws (which you appear to actually know nothing of) are to ensure engineers are trained to a standard sufficient to undertake the work in a safe manner with respect to themselves, the customers and the environment. This is not ripping people off.

Nobody should be protected from competition...

Quite right but companies should be protected from unfair competition. Microsoft is forced to allow competitors to compete as if left alone they would destroy anyone attempting to get into the market. Wrong in your book no doubt but the real world is not black and white.
Rightly or wrongly our wholly elected government has decided that HCFC's should be controlled. Part of this measure means engineers need to prove skills. A simple test is all it takes. Yet many fail. That shows the trade is poor as an average and it needs to train up. Those who have refused to train (because they thought they were skilled enough) will either sharpen their pencil or leave the industry. I welcome both eventualities.

and nobody should be protected from themselves. We are responsible for the consequences of our own actions.

More naive BS. Seatbelts were brought in to protect people from going through the windscreen. Sadly people were too dumb to wear them so they made it compulsory. "Oh my liberty, my civil rights, my freedom" My arse! Sadly Joe average is as dumb as a pile of poo and needs protecting from himself as far as humanly possible. Builders on work sites moan and moan about H&S but the accident book gathers dust on those sites regulated the strictest. People need protecting not only from themselves but also from other people.

IF this legislation is correctly enforced the public can have confidence that the engineer they call is able to carry out the work in a competent and safe manner. That is what these laws are about.

The last thing we need is a nanny government deciding who will win and who will lose.

You're rambling again.. what exactly are you on about..? Besides you are an American living in America there is no 'we' here. Stay over your side with your bodger mates.

Everyone competes... the difference these days is that the playing field has been tilted against you... by the government.

Another aimless ramble. You don't know what OUR government is or what it does..

[lowcool]

whilst this post is still going,how is it that chlorine in refrigerants is destroying the ozone layer,yet chlorine in water doesnt,yet they are both denser than air.nobody yet has me convinced on this issue.

is there a government representative on this site anywhere as pauline hanson said PLEASE EXPLAIN !

[Gary]

Sadly Joe average is as dumb as a pile of poo and needs protecting from himself as far as humanly possible.

I'm sure Joe average, being dumb as a pile of poo, is eternally grateful for all of the adult supervision and will welcome further intrusions into every little nook and cranny of his life.

[multisync]

I'm sure Joe average, being dumb as a pile of poo, is eternally grateful for all of the adult supervision and will welcome further intrusions into every little nook and cranny of his life.

Unlikely, unless as they have a brief moment of enlightenment as they stop just short of the windscreen by the seatbelt they were forced to wear by some nameless dictator..

[lowcool]

had a look at a post from mr cool 29/08/01 similar topic discussion,things havent changed except the gov has created more employment,increased the income ten times more or less,i dont care.where the hell is the solution to this problem.

had one explanation re chlorine and ozone which is the one they dreamed up in the eighties.

can anyone answer my question factually or am i the only one who doesnt know what the fuchs going on!

[multisync]

whilst this post is still going,how is it that chlorine in refrigerants is destroying the ozone layer,yet chlorine in water doesnt,yet they are both denser than air.nobody yet has me convinced on this issue.

is there a government representative on this site anywhere as pauline hanson said PLEASE EXPLAIN !

For every pro there is an anti. It is pointless to discuss the science of this topic here because, well we're basically too stupid to understand who is wrong or right so we all just go with our gut and look for someone to back us up.

That isn't science it's right up there with clairvoyance

pro-

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/science/myths/heavier.html


anti
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/ozone/king.htm

Your call...

[Gary]

Unlikely, unless as they have a brief moment of enlightenment as they stop just short of the windscreen by the seatbelt they were forced to wear by some nameless dictator..

You really don't get the freedom thing, do you?

You just don't understand why people would be happier making their own wrong decisions than to have a benevolent government making all of the right decisions for them. And you see no difference between using persuasion (makes allies) and using force (makes enemies). Seems you will spend your life wondering why there are so many angry and defiant people out there.

The dictators of the world envision societies wherein everyone is happy and obedient, but the reality always turns out to be societies wherein all of the dumb as a pile of poo subjects are angry and rebellious. How can that be? It's just a puzzle to you, isn't it?

[multisync]

You really don't get the freedom thing, do you?

You don't 'get' that you have been sold this 'freedom' in order to control you.Think you're free- dream on.

You just don't understand why people would be happier making their own wrong decisions than to have a benevolent government making all of the right decisions for them.

When they make the right decision they are happy. When they make the wrong one they shout "Why didn't you stop me?"

And you see no difference between using persuasion (makes allies) and using force (makes enemies). Seems you will spend your life wondering why there are so many angry and defiant people out there.

Tell me one law where people have been persuaded. Nope doesn't work. People only ever respond to the prospect of punishment.

Seatbelts and the freethinkers

In 1967 it was made compulsory that seatbelts must be fitted to all cars in the UK

In 1984 it was made compulsory that they had to be worn! Why you may ask?/ well the freethinkers did not think past their liberties and couldn't grasp that going face first through laminated glass wasn't such a great idea. The freethinkers couldn't be trusted sufficiently to think. The thinking had to be done by others who could see that seatbelts saved lives, time heartache and money.

The dictators of the world envision societies wherein everyone is happy and obedient,

For society to be civilised the majority need to behave in a civilised manner. That means happy and obedient. The sign Say's CROSS or DON'T CROSS. we all happily obey or face the consequences

but the reality always turns out to be societies wherein all of the dumb as a pile of poo subjects are angry and rebellious. How can that be?

Maybe in your reality they are all angry and rebellious but I don't see anarchy in the UK. The only time that happens is when law and order breakdown.

However I do understand why certain people get angry that some freethinkers don't care about anything other than themselves, or defiant that McDonald's should not be allowed to rape the planet just so fat Americans can get fatter but perhaps it's only a certian type of freethinkers you approve of??

It's just a puzzle to you, isn't it?

The only puzzling thing is that every time I ask for a name of one of these phantom dictators you can't name one. This omission marks you out as a Loon, a lovable loon for sure but a loon none the less..

[Gary]

As I said, you don't have a clue. Freedom is not the same thing as anarchy.

In your twisted imagination you believe that everyone wants to be controlled and you will have it no other way.

You are the loon.

[Gary]

You don't 'get' that you have been sold this 'freedom' in order to control you.Think you're free- dream on.

I am more free than some and less free than I wish to be. Freedom is relative. If I had delusions about my relative level of freedom, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

When they make the right decision they are happy. When they make the wrong one they shout "Why didn't you stop me?"

Here you describe your philosophy, not mine. This is what you would shout, because you want to be controlled. I would not shout this, because unlike you, I have no desire to be controlled.

Rather than see people as they are, you see them as you want to believe they are.

[tonyhavcr]

This was a heck of a lot of fun to read.

Multisync and Gary both with a lot of passion!
Some say it could of been compressed air in it not likely.
I remember seeing the ABC news with Dan after this law was passed
and he said he saw the hole closing I was rolling.
Do I think refrigerant is eating the oz = no can I prove it no and what if I'm wrong as Gary said the time you find out it well be to late. Does any one know why swinging pools that dump 1000 of tons of chlorine ea. year in to the air dose not hurt the oz.

I'm not a environmental nut in any way but I do think all that crap we put in to the air dose come back to us over time in the water we drink the food and so on.

[lowcool]

im with you 100% tony
its been good watching it roll out.
i reckon thats of thousands of tons of usage per day world wide to keep the meanies out of the pool.

[lowcool]

thanks for the links multi read a couple of pages from epa.
it appears the epa has shot themselves in the feet,regarding cfcs,volcanos and wind.

[multisync]

thanks for the links multi read a couple of pages from epa.
it appears the epa has shot themselves in the feet,regarding cfcs,volcanos and wind.

Didn't read the links too much myself but I remain firmly in the anti camp and always have. However whatever the truth may be, no freethinker can argue we are using Earth resources at an ever increasing rate and pollution is a major problem.
Laws that make HFC's being illegal to freely vent to atmosphere reduce waste and pollution. Both should be welcomed by the freethinkers not just within our industry but affected by our actions.

[Gary]

However whatever the truth may be, no freethinker can argue we are using Earth resources at an ever increasing rate and pollution is a major problem.

As usual, you don't get it.

Here in Florida, we have no motorcycle helmet laws.

I have decided to wear a helmet, yet I am opposed to helmet laws.

I have a friend who has decided not to wear a helmet, and he is also opposed to helmet laws.

It is not about which side of the helmet wearing issue (or any other issue) you are on, it is about making your own decisions rather than having others decide for you. It is about persuasion versus force. It's your head, you decide.

BTW, if he gets in a crash, you won't hear my friend shouting, "Why didn't you stop me?"

[Gary]

Oops... double post

[multisync]

As I said, you don't have a clue. Freedom is not the same thing as anarchy.

Freedom is a perception not a reality.

In your twisted imagination you believe that everyone wants to be controlled and you will have it no other way.

You are the loon.

To a greater or lesser degree we all want to be controlled -or we would live outside civilised society- and want others to be controlled too -or get them removed outside civil society
If you choose to stay within the confines of civility then you are -by default- asking to be controlled (by these unnamed dictators ?)

There is a self dellusion in that a lot of white middle aged American men believe they -deep down- are all cowboys, free to roam the wilds of the west, drinking and killing with a "you're never gonna take me alive" attitude. Primarily infulenced as a child by John Wayne movies and watching too many eposides of Rawhide.

Sadly they can't be cowboys as it's dirty horrible and smelly plus they have to go to work in the morning, so next best thing is they buy a Harley with customary 'Live Hard, Ride Free' sticker and take off at the weekend (only if it's dry of course) and live the dream of being Peter Fonda out in the desert.

Course it's only a dream and it's work on Monday but till then...till then my friend...it's Hi ho Silver awaaaaaaaaay

[Quality]

Hey everyone,

Went to a large site today, at the site there are several refrig/ac companies with smaller contracts on different pieces of kit.
Whilst i was waiting for the maintenance guys i spotted another tech from a firm around my area, we got chatting. He explained he was just a maintenance bloke for the company, carrying out the service.
I had a look at the kit and noticed something strange, oh and he was brushing off the condensers while i was chatting to him.

Anyway he had his steps out a brush, bottle of R22 and a hose attached to the bottle, no manifold just the hose.

Im just putting two and two together but it seems obvious that he was using the R22 to blow through the condensers.
R22 is working out quite cheap....
Really does annoy me considering i reclaimed 120g from a chiller this morning, the reckless twit may have vented 20x that amount.

Ggggrrrrr

Should really report it but theres no solid evidence im just going by what i saw!

I was on site yesterday doing my thing I saw a bloke replacing a compressor on a snack machine - cut the pipes, vented refrigerant, lockringed new compressor connections, 10 minute vac, charged with 134a job done. I said nothing to him or any body except every body here - Now what do any body suggest I should do ?

[Gary]

To a greater or lesser degree we all want to be controlled -or we would live outside civilised society- and want others to be controlled too -or get them removed outside civil society
If you choose to stay within the confines of civility then you are -by default- asking to be controlled (by these unnamed dictators ?)

As I stated much earlier, civilization is about protecting us from each other, not protecting us from ourselves. Do you really not see the distinction?

There is a self dellusion in that a lot of white middle aged American men believe they -deep down- are all cowboys, free to roam the wilds of the west, drinking and killing with a "you're never gonna take me alive" attitude. Primarily infulenced as a child by John Wayne movies and watching too many eposides of Rawhide.

Sadly they can't be cowboys as it's dirty horrible and smelly plus they have to go to work in the morning, so next best thing is they buy a Harley with customary 'Live Hard, Ride Free' sticker and take off at the weekend (only if it's dry of course) and live the dream of being Peter Fonda out in the desert.

Course it's only a dream and it's work on Monday but till then...till then my friend...it's Hi ho Silver awaaaaaaaaay

Where did this come from? Is this the propoganda they are feeding you over there? That bikers in the USA think they are cowboys? That's ridiculous... lol

I know a lot of bikers and none of them think they are cowboys... lol

I'm thinking it is you who has bought into the Hollywood (or whatever equivalent you have over there) b*llsh*t version of... well... just about everthing. You really need to turn off the telly and get a grip on reality.

[tonyhavcr]

I was on site yesterday doing my thing I saw a bloke replacing a compressor on a snack machine - cut the pipes, vented refrigerant, lockringed new compressor connections, 10 minute vac, charged with 134a job done. I said nothing to him or any body except every body here - Now what do any body suggest I should do ?

He cut the pipes, vented refrigerant in the open!
We do not like the law but we follow them, only the politicians do not have to follow the laws

10 minute vac, charged with 134a job done. now here is the real crime!

[lowcool]

tony he's in work and so is the government.

long live the marlborough man and harley davidson.

south aust was the first to implement this garbage and helmet laws being compulsory.take ya jocks off multi,swim in the sea and enjoy freedom.even if you are surrounded by sharks or crocs if you dont keep an eye out they will get you.self governence is the rule of nature,if your not smart your dead and the strongest always survives, some are even in the disguise of mosquitos,politicians or leeches,oops sorry i didnt mean to bring the man in on this.

as ned kelly said -such is life.
hanged because the man saw it fit.not from ned being persecuted in the first place.
lowlifes! in this day an age he would have had grand children and a mum that would have been in an asylum from the atrocities upon herself and family created by the man.

[multisync]

As I stated much earlier, civilization is about protecting us from each other, not protecting us from ourselves. Do you really not see the distinction?
.

Still no names for these dictators -they don't exist do they ?

[Gary]

Still no names for these dictators -they don't exist do they ?

You seem to feel this is an important point. Name a person who shouted "Why didn't you stop me?" Will this prove anything? No. Naming names is a totally irrelevant and pitifully lame attempt to change the subject.

[multisync]

You seem to feel this is an important point. Name a person who shouted "Why didn't you stop me?" Will this prove anything? No. Naming names is a totally irrelevant and pitifully lame attempt to change the subject.

Your whole argument has been based on 'dictators' imposing laws. I called you out to name these dictators. You can't, so by defination your argument is based on a false premise and as such worthless.

[Gary]

Your whole argument has been based on 'dictators' imposing laws. I called you out to name these dictators. You can't, so by defination your argument is based on a false premise and as such worthless.

And I'm betting that you think that statement makes sense. You probably even think it is logical.

Just admit defeat gracefully and quit grasping for straws.

[multisync]

And I'm betting that you think that statement makes sense. You probably even think it is logical.

Just admit defeat gracefully and quit grasping for straws.

Ah the old "Quick look over there!" trick..

Sadly my bearded friend it hasn't worked -you're a spent force here...

[frostedflake]

best post by far here in the RE forum!

thanks to the mods for allowing the sharing of ideas regardles the subject!

rock on!

[jdunc2301]

I was on site yesterday doing my thing I saw a bloke replacing a compressor on a snack machine - cut the pipes, vented refrigerant, lockringed new compressor connections, 10 minute vac, charged with 134a job done. I said nothing to him or any body except every body here - Now what do any body suggest I should do ?

I only mentioned it to the site maintenance because i suspected, if i saw it then i would get his ass fired.....


ohh and all i can say to gary and multisync is ....Oh dear what a pickle!

multysinc is just ahead! 2/1 favourite