UK supermarket remote monitoring

[fridge109]

Does anyone know what UK supermarkets are doing in terms of remote monitoring / management of refrigeration. I understand that M&S has a comprehensive system in place from RDM. Any idea what are the others are doing, if anything?

[coolhibby1875]

hi fridge109 tesco use a company called ems/simms who remotely monitor their stores through danfoss 255 front ends or einstien g2 front ends.
sainsburys use a company called parasense who use the the front end in the store normally a radford,rdm or elm/honeywell then monitor the air on temperature of each case at 66% in my opinion this is a garbage system as it calls engineers out left right and centre through the middle of the night due to the fact there is no human element to it. when i was on call my phone would ring constant for system generated calls for high air on temps with a 4 hour response, the sooner they get rid the better for all,no doubt there will be many engineers on this forum who will disagree and say its a great system but these will be engineers that have never worked with anything else again just my opinion.
asda like m@s use rdm which a few years ago was good gear but now like everything else they make it in china now therefore its no longer as reliable as it used to be (case controllers) there front ends are the best all the same.
morrisons mostly use cdk as does aldi cdk is awesome as long as the front end has been commissioned properly, when changing a controller just swap it over and away it goes.
lidle use linde or huuser controllers again my opinion both are rubbish and over complicated for what they are controlling. i think i have covered most of the uk strores.

[fridge109]

Hi Coolhibby1875 -- thanks very much for this. I was looking through the forums and I found a discussion where you and some others talk about Parasense in the past tense. I gather from your post here that this doesn't mean that Sainsbury's stopped using it though, right?

Sorry I can't post the URL cos the system doesn't allow that for newbies, but a couple of quotes:

Re: J Sainsbury
Ha , Parasense or Para****e as it was affectionately known ! Absolute rubbish it was....!

Re: J Sainsbury
i have not meet any engineer post parasense that likes this contract i for 1 will not miss the 3 am call out for a critical parasense alarm or trying to repair a leak on a oil line on a 20 year old screw pack then having to add 90 kg of r22 gas and a manager standing behind you moaning about his freezers in my opinion ther whole estate is a big bag of ****!

[Colin G]

the co-op use rdm, a datamanager where depending on requirements will have an ip network round rdm ml controllers or just utilise the inputs to wire in logging and defrost probes from each cabinet. the datamanager is then configured through the alarm index/actions on how to act on specific alarms whether it be alarm only on panel or dial out an alarm.

[coolhibby1875]

hi fridge yes sainsburys still use it however i hear that they will bin it in 2011 i no longer work this contract.
the contract previous to parasense was actually good and profitable.
but as soon as parasense was rolled out nationwide it cost fridge companies a fortune!

[fridge109]

Hi Colin G - thanks for this, I didn't know that Co-op was using RDM too - do you know if they using it right across their stores?

Coolhibby - wow, from what you say I'm amazed that Parasense doesn't fix their system - you'd think they'd be looking at introducing a human component. But I guess thats a whole new level of expense.

Actually I read somewhere that Sainsbury's are using RDM in some stores too

[coolhibby1875]

hi yes some sainsburys have rdm but this is there for the parasense to monitor all alarm setpoints are low temp -50 and hight temp +50, This stops the front end from alarming out at the front end

[Colin G]

Hi Colin G - thanks for this, I didn't know that Co-op was using RDM too - do you know if they using it right across their stores?

i think they are rolling it out on all the new refits as they use basically an rdm plant controller with a custom build software that controls store lighting, a/c etc

[panda]

have you forgot waitrose? 15% of the uk grocer market

[coolhibby1875]

overlooked waitrose they use next controlls which is very good and user friendly. possibly my favorite.

[Silhouette]

Waitrose Next Controllers AKA Tektronics are solid controllers, have been for many years!

[Keef_Controls]

Some things about the Parasense system are good, like the store league table.

But mostly its a step backwards IMO, for instance you now have to get an engineer in a van to the store with a HHU if you want to change something (i thought we were supposed to be saving energy nowadays !), or even look at somthing (some stores with gateways dont even seem to log specific compressor, pack alarms etc..). I think the opinion is that most engineers are too daft or devious to be allowed to change setpoints nowadays - but to not accomodate any means for anyone to be able to do this is daft.

Also - only being able to look at the last 7 days worth of data on packs is a pain.

[coolhibby1875]

hi keef the only good thing that parasense have ever done good is there leak detection system which is second to none other than that it is pure junk ans should be ripped out at the first given opertunity.

[tony--1]

When they first dun parasence you could only get 24 hrs ov data . I was in the meeting with them and asked for 7 days . Then asked for 3 weeks but that never got dun . But

[tony--1]

SRY

I was going too say but you can put the date in and look at 7 days at a time so not that bad ! . Not my problem i not look after sainsburys anymore

[Keef_Controls]

hi keef the only good thing that parasense have ever done good is there leak detection system which is second to none other than that it is pure junk ans should be ripped out at the first given opertunity.

Even the leak detection is'nt is good as it used to be, the sample times are very long and it has a very basic local user interface.

BTW - CPC have a new unit coming out soon...

[Keef_Controls]

SRY

I was going too say but you can put the date in and look at 7 days at a time so not that bad ! . Not my problem i not look after sainsburys anymore

You can only do that on cabinets and coldstores - not on packs unfortunately. With packs you can only go back 7 days from now.

[CastroFG]

The software monitoring is largelly applied by supermarket chains in Brazilian market through Sitrad software, supplied FREE by a brazilian manufacturer, Full Gauge Controls.