f gas training

[GHAZ]

hello guys iv been told that i have to get a new city and guilds catergory 1 gas handling course to comply with new regulations,but iv got CITB UP TILL 2011 which is no longer valid, cant understand why

[Andy W]

As far as I am aware if your CITB has an expiry date of 2011 on it then it is ok, but some customers are now asking for proof of 2079 as it id more competence based than buying a qualification.

Check the Refcom web site for more info, have you joined Refcom as you would then know for sure as they would not accept you if you dont have either.

[El Padre]

Hello GHAZ,

A City & Guilds 2078 and a CITB equivalent that has not expired are accepted as interim qualifications untill 2011, my only advice would be that when you do the 2079 go for the City & Guilds course as you will not have to keep renewing that like the CITB.

Cheers

[Brian_UK]

I have the fun situation of my CITB running out in four days and the company booking a 2079 course in September.

Should I put my tools away or do I carry on ?

[philfridge]

I think you could carry on regardless brian as nobody is going to question you. This is all nonsense at the moment and untill their is proper policing who cares. It seems to me your company have had plenty of time to sort this issue out and like many firms dont seem to bother untill the last minute then its panic stations

[taz24]

I have the fun situation of my CITB running out in four days and the company booking a 2079 course in September.

Should I put my tools away or do I carry on ?

Sir, Sir. Brian being naughty Sir!! .

You will forget how to fit your gauges by September Brian if you don't practice.

"taz starts talking to himself"
Is it blue to low and yellow to high? Or is it yellow to low and red to vac pump? Oh bugger

taz

.

[Brian_UK]

Oh, ha, ha

[multisync]

We will report you if we find out you are working on refigerating systems illegally. Why should we pay our dues and make sure we operate within the law if you or your company can't be bothered..

Same here for anyone else who think they can ignore this.

[multisync]

Sir, Sir. Brian being naughty Sir!! .

You will forget how to fit your gauges by September Brian if you don't practice.

"taz starts talking to himself"
Is it blue to low and yellow to high? Or is it yellow to low and red to vac pump? Oh bugger

taz

.

It's not a case of knowing or not knowing. It's having a licence.

It's the same as being stopped when driving and saying to the policeman " I can drive -look this is the gear lever, this is the brake" No licence means you're nicked.

Unless the trade take this seriously then those who dodge the fees and certification will end up the winners.

Again we repeat if we catch Brian working on a fridge (or if we find out who he/ his company is) we will be reporting to REFCOM etc that he/they are potentially working illegally.

Nothing personal but this is business and how the law affects our operating conditions

[lowcool]

the law doesnt mean crap its how people interpret it.i take it your taxes etc everything is above board 100% i think not but the man will find out either way without naziest intervention,

enjoy,sit and simmer

[philfridge]

Again we repeat if we catch Brian working on a fridge (or if we find out who he/ his company is) we will be reporting to REFCOM etc that he/they are potentially working illegally.

Nothing personal but this is business and how the law affects our operating conditions

Who appointed you to snitch on fellow workers are you the unpaid informer for refcom. Who cares only you it seems.

[multisync]

Who appointed you to snitch on fellow workers are you the unpaid informer for refcom. Who cares only you it seems.

If they are not registered or qualified then they are not ' fellow workers' they are illegals and as such open season as far as we are concerned..

Two members of staff have recently left to start a rival business. They have been canvassing from our database. We know they are not registered..Hmm tricky one eh? As the boss said "It's payback time"

Someone comes here and mentions they are about to work illegally for a couple of months because their company ( a big multinational) has poor training procedure and you want me to have sympathy and 'cover for him' > Grow up.

Brian should point blank refuse to fit gauges till he has regained the necessary. Otherwise he knows he is liable for prosecution if caught.Which is where we come in

I was at a trade counter and he said a couple of regulars ( good old boys) point blank refuse to do either the safe handling, 2079 or register with REFCOM. And you want me to 'cover for them' > Eff right off.

It's not personal -it's business and no one can say they didn't know about this coming...

This regulation has been forced on us all. Not just the ones stupid enough to actually comply. The only way we can get anything out of this is to enforce it ourselves. Once we clamp down on the cowboys/non compliers we can start to get this trade higher up the food chain. Corgi (gas Safe) only works to the level it does because it is enforced. The harder it's regulated the higher we can charge. Once the customer understands REFCOM means higher prices (because there is no alternative) then we all reap the benefits.
Those in REFCOM and alike can seem a bit sanctimonious but it's their efforts that we have a chance to finally drive out those cowboys and increase the fee structure. Sadly it's people like you who have kept this trade down with a very short sighted attitude. You may be happy to compete with those who under-cut by not paying for the fees and training but that doesn't mean we all should...

I know you don't 'get it' but hopefully one day you will..

[multisync]

the law doesnt mean crap its how people interpret it.i take it your taxes etc everything is above board 100% i think not but the man will find out either way without naziest intervention,

enjoy,sit and simmer

Perhaps a little more lemonade in your 'beer' may help. ?

If I fiddle my taxes and the tax man finds out I get done. This isn't a Naziest(?) intervention -it's the law ( how the tax law is interpreted by the court/judge is by defination the law as it applied).

Please read the regulations as they apply to the EU and come back and explain why you shouldn't drink beer before posting.

[Karl Hofmann]

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.... Remember this as you stab folk in the back..

I think that you need to visit planet Earth

[philfridge]

We will report you if we find out you are working on refigerating systems illegally. Why should we pay our dues and make sure we operate within the law if you or your company can't be bothered..

Same here for anyone else who think they can ignore this.

Stop spouting rubbish blah blah blah, you are not the F GAS POLICE you are a unpaid informer thats all and will earn no rewards from this forum by grassing up other engineers or companies.

[Grizzly]

Gentlemen.

What Multisync says is correct.
But I can see no wrong in Brian's situation.
His company will of registered with refcom no doubt.
And I have no doubt that Brian will renew his C.I.T.B. as soon as is reasonably practical.

We will all have to comply by 2011.
But lets not shoot the good guys.
Incidentally Refcom require the qualification details of all the companies engineers before they allow a company to register.
I agree with everyone.
Not only will we learn to comply but we will learn to do it before the tickets run out.
Chill guys!
We will all get there, it just takes time.
Oh! On a personal note my 2078 does not run out before 2011.
So I am in no hurry to renew!
But I will of by then!
Grizzly

[Gary]

This regulation has been forced on us all. Not just the ones stupid enough to actually comply. The only way we can get anything out of this is to enforce it ourselves. Once we clamp down on the cowboys/non compliers we can start to get this trade higher up the food chain. Corgi (gas Safe) only works to the level it does because it is enforced. The harder it's regulated the higher we can charge. Once the customer understands REFCOM means higher prices (because there is no alternative) then we all reap the benefits.

...except the customer.

Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

In the immortal words of John Fogerty/CCR "When the band plays Hail to the Chief, they point the cannon at you".

[multisync]

...except the customer.

Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

In the immortal words of John Fogerty/CCR "When the band plays Hail to the Chief, they point the cannon at you".

The customer does not 'win' by getting in low bid unskilled bodgers.

[multisync]

Gentlemen.

What Multisync says is correct.
But I can see no wrong in Brian's situation.
His company will of registered with refcom no doubt.
And I have no doubt that Brian will renew his C.I.T.B. as soon as is reasonably practical.

Thanks, some are small minded 'look the other way and cross the road' guy's who only care about themselves. They think they are doing the right thing by aiding the non compliant stay in the industry. We believe the non complaint (according to the regulations and the law) now have no place within a modern refrigeration sector and hence will do what we can to remove them.

However It's not about Brian being a lovely old duffer who's good at his job and helps out on a forum. We all make mistakes but Brian works for a large company who will have a Manager in charge of training. His card should have flagged up as due to expire. They should know the regs and have ensured he remains compliant. He should have ensured he remains compliant that is where the 'wrong' is in all this.
Unless they are looking to get rid of him so have let it run out and hence he's no longer qualified and can't work...?

[multisync]

Stop spouting rubbish blah blah blah, you are not the F GAS POLICE you are a unpaid informer thats all and will earn no rewards from this forum by grassing up other engineers or companies.

Do you honestly think we care one iota about this forum and any of it's members..? Call us what you will (sticks and stones....) but we do not give a flying fig that you don't care enough about this industry past you own pay packet.

The boss has said he will report non registered companies who flout the law. Get over it..

[multisync]

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.... Remember this as you stab folk in the back..

I think that you need to visit planet Earth

You are Gas safe, why? because you want to work on gas equipment.AFAIK it is part of your responsibility to Gassafe to report non compliance. Failure to do this is a breach of the terms. Would you report a non compliance?

http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/hel..._engineer.aspx

[Karl Hofmann]

You are Gas safe, why? because you want to work on gas equipment.AFAIK it is part of your responsibility to Gassafe to report non compliance. Failure to do this is a breach of the terms. Would you report a non compliance?

http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/hel..._engineer.aspx

But there is a huge difference between Gas Safe and Refcon... Gas safe endeavours to protect the public from gas leaks and carbon monoxide poisoning. It is a gas fitters primary objective to protect life and property. Same for an OFTEC installer. What does Refcon protect?

It is also a fact that being Gas Safe Registered does not guarantee that the installation will be a good installation nor a repair will be a good repair.. ONLY that it is safe.

Refcom registration does not assure that the aircon installation will be a good or reliable.

A huge number of gas fitters would not go to the lengths of reporting illegal installers simply because they are not registered... But it would be right and proper to report dangeous work... The house holder would not have a gas installation certificate and so would have problems down the line when they came to sell their house.

Based on what what I have read here, I know who I would engage to install and air conditioner, It seems like most guys are knowlagabe, able and adaptabe enough to deal with the current tough times and I would not hesitate to pay them for what I believe would be a top job... There are others who seem to spend their lives bellyaching about how unfair their life is and how they plot to eradicate their competition... Perhaps ther is another reason for cusomers going to your competition and it might not always be price..

I know that it will mortify you Mr Multi, but I pass some gas work on to my competition as my speciallity is repairs rather than installs, where I cannot compete, and they pass their repairs on to me.... We all get along and the world keeps turning.

[monkey spanners]

I have the fun situation of my CITB running out in four days and the company booking a 2079 course in September.

Should I put my tools away or do I carry on ?

Get an Acrib card, doesn't (or didn't) matter that your citb has run out in getting one.

[Gary]

The customer does not 'win' by getting in low bid unskilled bodgers.

If this were true, you wouldn't be complaining. You would be celebrating.

But in fact the "bodgers" are getting it done, the customers are winning... and you are not.

There are two ways to compete. You can outrun the other guy... or you can reach out and trip the other guy. I'm thinking you subscribe to the latter strategy.

[philfridge]

Do you honestly think we care one iota about this forum and any of it's members..?

Multi, nice to know you care

[lowcool]

you appeared to have misread what i had written in my post multisync it implies that your the nazi and the man will findout without going extremist,so be a good lad,brush up on some english language,maybe enlist in a night course after youve finished with the opposition for the day.when thats all over you can have your glass of warm milk.
while i run around and dob in the tax evaders,its a good thing your a milk drinker as i could never imagine you driving home after having three pints in a pub,let alone the effect it can have on other peoples lives.
heil multisync

[multisync]

[quote=Gary;152544]If this were true, you wouldn't be complaining. You would be celebrating.

But in fact the "bodgers" are getting it done, the customers are winning... and you are not.

quote]

Ok Gary it seems you want this industry to be run by unskilled 'bodgers'. This from someone who pushes a traning manual.

The fact is that there are many 'bodgers' out there 'getting it done' However their way is to wire out safety devices

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=333022

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=330772

Your reputation is zero and as such your views are worthless.

[multisync]

But there is a huge difference between Gas Safe and Refcon... Gas safe endeavours to protect the public from gas leaks and carbon monoxide poisoning. It is a gas fitters primary objective to protect life and property. Same for an OFTEC installer. What does Refcon protect?

From what I have read the number of deaths and incidents since Corgi started has not fallen. Therefore it could be argued that it isn't protecting anyone from anything.

It is also a fact that being Gas Safe Registered does not guarantee that the installation will be a good installation nor a repair will be a good repair.. ONLY that it is safe.

It actually doesn't g.tee even that. It g.tees that it is carried out by someone registered. However by it's -supposedly- strict training requirments etc gas safety and indeed install quality is assured by default.

Refcom registration does not assure that the aircon installation will be a good or reliable.

It can't unless every job is inspected, but if it ensures that only trained and certified engineers can carry out the installation it increases the chance of it being a better install.

A huge number of gas fitters would not go to the lengths of reporting illegal installers simply because they are not registered...

So unregistered people wouldn't report unregistered people. Hardly a shocker is it? Nor a justifiable reason for removing Gas safe

But it would be right and proper to report dangeous work... The house holder would not have a gas installation certificate and so would have problems down the line when they came to sell their house.

We are slowing coming together. What about If manufaturers required a card sent back with date, location and REFCOM reg number in order for the warranty to start (just like boiler manufacturers)

Based on what what I have read here, I know who I would engage to install and air conditioner, It seems like most guys are knowlagabe, able and adaptabe enough to deal with the current tough times and I would not hesitate to pay them for what I believe would be a top job...

So an experienced engineer on a specialist forum can narrow out who they would/would not use, right down to 'most' of the engineers here.

What about a secretary in an office tasked with getting ac quotes?
What about Mr and Mrs Smith who's daughter suffers from severe Asthma and don't have a clue who are good/bad or indifferent.

How do they protect themselves from a bad installer?

Lets not forget we do deal with mains electricity and some installs I have seen are down right dangerous. 3 phase kit with no earths anyone??

There are others who seem to spend their lives bellyaching about how unfair their life is and how they plot to eradicate their competition...

If they are not registered they are not compitition. They are illegals working outside the LAW. They can undercut by not training, not buying the tools, not registering. That is not right however you slice it.

Perhaps ther is another reason for cusomers going to your competition and it might not always be price..

As you know nothing about us why bother making stuff up ?

I know that it will mortify you Mr Multi, but I pass some gas work on to my competition as my speciallity is repairs rather than installs, where I cannot compete, and they pass their repairs on to me.... We all get along and the world keeps turning.

Let me guess this time. Correct me if I am wrong-You pass your installs onto a registered Gas Safe company and they pass their repair work onto a Gas safe registered company.

Is the penny dropping?

[multisync]

you appeared to have misread what i had written in my post multisync it implies that your the nazi and the man will findout without going extremist,so be a good lad,brush up on some english language,maybe enlist in a night course after youve finished with the opposition for the day.when thats all over you can have your glass of warm milk.
while i run around and dob in the tax evaders,its a good thing your a milk drinker as i could never imagine you driving home after having three pints in a pub,let alone the effect it can have on other peoples lives.
heil multisync

You are right about one thing -I don't drink and drive nor condone those that do.

(Oh and thanks for the English lesson ;-)

[lowcool]

anytime fella,give it time and the system should sort it out,from memory their was a couple of mobs here that guaranteed this will and this will be that,in the end it was left with one controlling body,is this a similar situation as what your mob are going through.its on its way that the customer may have to keep a register,where do you think that will come from.its taken awhile for things to come into effect,bodgers or not the minority is always there.end user always loses both ways.

had a good toddy lately

[Karl Hofmann]

From what I have read the number of deaths and incidents since Corgi started has not fallen. Therefore it could be argued that it isn't protecting anyone from anything.

Might I suggest that you learn to read then...



It actually doesn't g.tee even that. It g.tees that it is carried out by someone registered. However by it's -supposedly- strict training requirments etc gas safety and indeed install quality is assured by default.

No it doesn't.


It can't unless every job is inspected, but if it ensures that only trained and certified engineers can carry out the installation it increases the chance of it being a better install.

Not really, since Refcom is only interested in the refrigerant side of things. as long as the pipes are tight, then this is a good install in your opinion?



So unregistered people wouldn't report unregistered people. Hardly a shocker is it? Nor a justifiable reason for removing Gas safe

Why would unregistered report unregistered? I fear that you may have lost the plot a little


We are slowing coming together. What about If manufaturers required a card sent back with date, location and REFCOM reg number in order for the warranty to start (just like boiler manufacturers)

Most boiler manufacturers do not require the installation certificate, Alpha is the exception


So an experienced engineer on a specialist forum can narrow out who they would/would not use, right down to 'most' of the engineers here.

I wouldn't even mind if he was not that good, but an officious jobsworth would never get the job... Have you ever been a traffic warden?

What about a secretary in an office tasked with getting ac quotes?
What about Mr and Mrs Smith who's daughter suffers from severe Asthma and don't have a clue who are good/bad or indifferent.

A piece of paper guarantees nothing.. A wise buyer works on recommendations.

How do they protect themselves from a bad installer?

Refcom doesn't protect from bad installers, only that there are no leaks.

Lets not forget we do deal with mains electricity and some installs I have seen are down right dangerous. 3 phase kit with no earths anyone??

Unless you are a registered spark, then you should not be messing with the electrics, Refcom or not... It's a safety thing... Perhaps aircons should only be sold to qualified electricians.



If they are not registered they are not compitition. They are illegals working outside the LAW. They can undercut by not training, not buying the tools, not registering. That is not right however you slice it.

Like it or not, they are your competition, I can fully understand why they left you, I would too..



As you know nothing about us why bother making stuff up ?
I know that you have too much time on your hands. Why not try and get some work?



Let me guess this time. Correct me if I am wrong-You pass your installs onto a registered Gas Safe company and they pass their repair work onto a Gas safe registered company.

12 months ago one of them was working illegally.. Without the intervention of CORGI a number of us convinced him to do his ACS and register... The standard of his work is very good.

Is the penny dropping?

No!


Perhaps if you took a more relaxed approach to registration, then you could get your message to a wider audience. It will happen sure enough but trying to be too anal about the issue which to be honest is simply an exercise in paperwork and has nothing to do with quality... Calm down dude, take a chill pill

[lowcool]

you might have something their karl

[sparrow]

Hello GHAZ,

A City & Guilds 2078 and a CITB equivalent that has not expired are accepted as interim qualifications untill 2011, my only advice would be that when you do the 2079 go for the City & Guilds course as you will not have to keep renewing that like the CITB.

Cheers

This is not actually the case guys they both only last for the five year period, C & g / CITB.

There are some differing conditions to the written exam side, if you take the CITB one it may be a benefit to be able to explain your answers in detail, to the Examiner. This is not the same as taking the online C & G gig because if and when you select an answer its done, right or wrong and evaluated via a computer system.

I hope this helps a little.

Sparrow

[multisync]

Originally Posted by multisync
From what I have read the number of deaths and incidents since Corgi started has not fallen. Therefore it could be argued that it isn't protecting anyone from anything.

Might I suggest that you learn to read then...

Provide a link then..

It actually doesn't g.tee even that. It g.tees that it is carried out by someone registered. However by it's -supposedly- strict training requirments etc gas safety and indeed install quality is assured by default.

No it doesn't.

Whic is why I said 'supposedly'

It can't unless every job is inspected, but if it ensures that only trained and certified engineers can carry out the installation it increases the chance of it being a better install.

Not really, since Refcom is only interested in the refrigerant side of things. as long as the pipes are tight, then this is a good install in your opinion?

In order to be REFCOM registered you -supposedly- have to be trained to a certain level. REFCOM cannot inspect every install. However by increasing the quality of engineers it 'should' by default increase the quality of the install. However if your certain Corgi has improved gas safety (by defination a better install standard) then you complete me

So unregistered people wouldn't report unregistered people. Hardly a shocker is it? Nor a justifiable reason for removing Gas safe

Why would unregistered report unregistered? I fear that you may have lost the plot a little

Err it was you who mentioned un registered guy's not me...!!

We are slowing coming together. What about If manufaturers required a card sent back with date, location and REFCOM reg number in order for the warranty to start (just like boiler manufacturers)

Most boiler manufacturers do not require the installation certificate, Alpha is the exception

Check out Worcester Bosch terms. In fact try Ideal Standard warrenty terms .. You obviously know little about boiler iwarranty...

So an experienced engineer on a specialist forum can narrow out who they would/would not use, right down to 'most' of the engineers here.

I wouldn't even mind if he was not that good, but an officious jobsworth would never get the job... Have you ever been a traffic warden?

This say's more about you than me..

What about a secretary in an office tasked with getting ac quotes?
What about Mr and Mrs Smith who's daughter suffers from severe Asthma and don't have a clue who are good/bad or indifferent.

A piece of paper guarantees nothing.. A wise buyer works on recommendations.

From whom should they trust. Either way they should employ someone legally entitled to cary out the work would you not agree?

How do they protect themselves from a bad installer?

Refcom doesn't protect from bad installers, only that there are no leaks.

Again by default by REFCOM certification it should increase the chance of a better installation. It's obvious the traning companies have a lot of responsibility here (but are likely to fail us yet again...)

Lets not forget we do deal with mains electricity and some installs I have seen are down right dangerous. 3 phase kit with no earths anyone??

Unless you are a registered spark, then you should not be messing with the electrics, Refcom or not... It's a safety thing... Perhaps aircons should only be sold to qualified electricians.

It's likely Part p will be extended to commercial properties. that is to be commended judging by the death traps that littler the sites around the UK. However Fridges can and do run mains but because they are not trained to 17th they are not fully complaint. Again this is where regulation legistration and the law comes in..

If they are not registered they are not compitition. They are illegals working outside the LAW. They can undercut by not training, not buying the tools, not registering. That is not right however you slice it.

Like it or not, they are your competition, I can fully understand why they left you, I would too..

No you don't, you just think you do. Besides they didn't leave 'me' they left the company.

You keep trying to make this personal. It's not personal it's business

As you know nothing about us why bother making stuff up ?

I know that you have too much time on your hands. Why not try and get some work?

Why are you now worrying about me?

Let me guess this time. Correct me if I am wrong-You pass your installs onto a registered Gas Safe company and they pass their repair work onto a Gas safe registered company.

12 months ago one of them was working illegally.. Without the intervention of CORGI a number of us convinced him to do his ACS and register... The standard of his work is very good.

Ok so you convinced him. What would you have done if he said "no I want to carry on working illegally"

Is the penny dropping?

No!


Perhaps if you took a more relaxed approach to registration, then you could get your message to a wider audience. It will happen sure enough but trying to be too anal about the issue which to be honest is simply an exercise in paperwork and has nothing to do with quality... Calm down dude, take a chill pill

It won't happen unless it's made to happen. You seem reluctant to help which means other have to (so you can sit on your fat arse and moan..which is all you've done so far )

[Karl Hofmann]

Multi, Regulation will happen and it will happen a lot more smoothly if done gently, like they did with CORGI and Part P. You seem to have no understanding of how to deal with people. Perhaps beause this is why you see things as being business rather than personal.

If I was in your area and was in competition with you, then I would,despite the fact that I am registered, make it well known that I wasn't.... Just for fun.

I have met many guys like you. You take yourself far too seriously and you believe that regulation is your key to eradicating your competition and leaves your potential customers open to being overcharged.

I do install both Worcester Bosch and Vaillant boilers, and Installation certificates have never been asked for before or after warranty work, you seem to pay too much attention in what is written and not to what is real... As for Ideal, they are only fitted by GasSafe fitters as the only guys mad enough to fit them are Warm Front, Ideal Boilers are widely recognised as the worst boilers available, no self respecting cowboy would go near them..


Anyway Multi, You seem to have nothing new or interesting to say and your rantings are becoming tiresom. If you do have anything interesting to say, please feel free to let us know but trying to bully folk will only attract our ridecule. As I said before... Chill and go and do some work..

[Voyager]

It is also a fact that being Gas Safe Registered does not guarantee that the installation will be a good installation nor a repair will be a good repair.. ONLY that it is safe.

Unfortunately Karl, GasSafe / Corgi or whatever doesn't even guarantee that.

All they guarantee is that the engineer ticked the right boxes on the paperwork. The guy will get probably found out and fined for shoddy work, but like all laws and regulations it will be after the damage has been done.

Refcon will operate the same way - guarantee the engineer has passed an exam and ticks all the right boxes, but have no idea if the job is safe.

[eggs]

[QUOTE=multisync;152636]

The fact is that there are many 'bodgers' out there 'getting it done' However their way is to wire out safety devices

Is this not the first rule in fault finding?
Repeat after me "If in doubt, link it out", "If in doubt, link it out", "If in doubt, link it out", "If in doubt, link it out"...

Eggs

[Karl Hofmann]

Unfortunately Karl, GasSafe / Corgi or whatever doesn't even guarantee that.

All they guarantee is that the engineer ticked the right boxes on the paperwork. The guy will get probably found out and fined for shoddy work, but like all laws and regulations it will be after the damage has been done.

Refcon will operate the same way - guarantee the engineer has passed an exam and ticks all the right boxes, but have no idea if the job is safe.

I'd say that this is part correct, there are no guarantees in life but since a gasman is traceable, then it would not be in his interest to leave leaking pipework or appliances that are spilling CO into a property... Similarly a Refcom engineer will pay attention to leak testing, knowing that he may be traced on an inspection.... It matters not one wit if the condensate pipe runs up hill or that the unit is poorly sized.

Overall though I would say that gas fitters take safety very seriously, just as refrigeration engineers take leak testing seriously... every needless call back deminishes profitabillity and rduces the chance of repeat work..

The standard of quality of any install is down to the professionalism of the installer, not which bit of paper he has just bought which was my original comment when informed that Refcom will remove the bodgers... It won't anymore than Gasafe does... Seen plenty of abysmal boiler installs but they aren't going to kill anyone

[multisync]

Multi, Regulation will happen and it will happen a lot more smoothly if done gently, like they did with CORGI and Part P. You seem to have no understanding of how to deal with people. Perhaps beause this is why you see things as being business rather than personal.

Things will only change when people get fined. That's how it works. It has nothing to do with 'smooth'

If I was in your area and was in competition with you, then I would,despite the fact that I am registered, make it well known that I wasn't.... Just for fun.

Err you would be on the reigster..Doh!

I have met many guys like you. You take yourself far too seriously and you believe that regulation is your key to eradicating your competition and leaves your potential customers open to being overcharged.

Sadly you and a few others have not read what I wrote rather read what you like to think I meant and continued down a blind alley with a red herring trying you justify your lethargy

NOT ONCE HAVE I MENTIONED DRIVING OUT REGISTERED LEGIT COMPANIES>

I HAVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES::: DRIVE OUT THE COWBOYS MEANS MORE/BETTER PAID WORK FOR THOSE WHO ARE REGISTERED

I do install both Worcester Bosch and Vaillant boilers, and Installation certificates have never been asked for before or after warranty work, you seem to pay too much attention in what is written and not to what is real... As for Ideal, they are only fitted by GasSafe fitters as the only guys mad enough to fit them are Warm Front, Ideal Boilers are widely recognised as the worst boilers available, no self respecting cowboy would go near them..

Be that as it may but the very first thing the Coroner will ask for is the installation certificate and the name of the Gas safe registered engineer.

Anyway Multi, You seem to have nothing new or interesting to say and your rantings are becoming tiresom. If you do have anything interesting to say, please feel free to let us know but trying to bully folk will only attract our ridecule. As I said before... Chill and go and do some work..

I'm not interested in you or yours, however this registration is only as good as it's enforcement. If you're not willing to help so be it but don't complain at those who are..

[Gary]

Things will only change when people get fined. That's how it works.

Spoken like a true dictator. Screw right and wrong... just beat them into submission.

[Brian_UK]

I see that we now have two registration companies to deal with.

Where does the customer go to check whether a company is registered now?

DEFRA needs to arrange a single access point for one and all to make life easier.

[Karl Hofmann]

Ha!.... I found a little video of Multisync when he was younger, Not a bad voice but you could see his personallity developing even then..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg

[philfridge]

Nice one karl, "Tomorrow belongs to me " oh dear poor Multi be all upset now because them bigger boys are making fun of him oh dear.

[marc5180]

I have the fun situation of my CITB running out in four days and the company booking a 2079 course in September.

Should I put my tools away or do I carry on ?

Put your tools away and get your head in some books

[marc5180]

Do you honestly think we care one iota about this forum and any of it's members..?

So what are you doing on here?

[multisync]

I see that we now have two registration companies to deal with.

Where does the customer go to check whether a company is registered now?

DEFRA needs to arrange a single access point for one and all to make life easier.

There are now 3 companies for this.

REFCOM
Quidos
Veritas

The reason is that one government department is scared of EU comptition laws and has demanded it to be opened up.

[Colin G]

im looking forward to this course, bring it on, although dont want to be ****y in case i fail it