Politics American style verses the rest of the world.

[benncool]

It is enjoyable reading the slant on our trade from the mostly British point of view.

Aiyub, posted his opinion of why the Chinese are gaining in manufacturing sector. Most generally folks on this site do not give such a polictical observation on a subject. Over here such an observation would go on for hours or in this case pages.

Being a Yank, I find this to be normal procedure. I have been in different parts of the world and the "man on the street" are reluctant to get into any type of political conversation.

Is it just an American thing to argue politics?

[baker]

Is it just an American thing to argue politics?

I would have thought it to be the opposite. Years of reading alt.hvac has given me the impression that the typical American states his politics and then wants to fight anyone who disagrees. They are not interested in a proper discussion. They are right and everyone else is wrong. Any facts that go against their perceptions are dismissed as lies.

I was amazed when one of the more vocal alt.hvac contributors, PJM, expressed dismay and disgust at the Iraqi prison torture photos. He was really surprised and ashamed. I don't know anyone in this country (Australia) who was surprised - there had been plenty of advance notice.

Mark Baker

[benncool]

I would have thought it to be the opposite. Years of reading alt.hvac has given me the impression that the typical American states his politics and then wants to fight anyone who disagrees.

Mark Baker

So, you have noticed that!

[Abe]

Baker,

Why even bother !!!!!
What is being implied is that this one barks..........others dont, they just follow their masters sheepishly.....

Its meant to elicit a response............We better off yawning and ignoring such nonsense

[chemi-cool]

To become a politician, you have to be:

A liar,
A thief,
Greedy.
Have, conscious, honesty and loyalty, removed.

Sorry but it hurts my back to bend that low.


Chemi

[benncool]

During the recent State Funeral of Ronald Reagan I did notice a strange thing that might give Marc's statement some validity.

State religion is unconstitutional here. But the out pouring of Patriotism during this observance did have on a religious tone.

[Gary]

People are people everywhere. People are sheep everywhere. They are scammed by their leaders, who are thieves and dictators, because the vast majority are themselves thieves and dictators.

Our perceptions of those in other countries are formed by the politicians (including the religious leaders), and the politically motivated media in our own countries. Thieves and dictators, one and all.

We all think we know what is going on in the world, and none of us do. We know what we are told. False information leads to false conclusions, all filtered through the basic human inclinations to covet advantages at someone else's expense and to dictate the behavior of our neighbors.

The world believes that 'might makes right', differing only in their brand of dictatorship. The unpalletable and unpopular alternative to 'might makes right' is 'non-defensive force is wrong', which implies that various behaviors which are non-threatening to others are not wrong. In other words, 'live and let live', tolerating infinite variations of 'right'.

[benncool]

Yes but Gary, do you not believe in some tpye of social order so that everyone gets his little piece of the pie? If so then we have to ask, 'who's social order is correct?'

[Gary]

Social order? What's that? Is that another way of saying might makes right?

The legitimate function of government is to help us defend our life, liberty, and property. Nothing else. When government goes beyond this, it infringes upon life, liberty, and property.

A group has no more rights than the individuals within that group, i.e. rights to life, liberty, and property, and the inherent right to defend themselves against those who would infringe upon their rights to life, liberty, and property. The group has a right to collectively defend its members, because the individuals within that group have that right.

Non-defensive force is wrong, even if people vote for it.

[frank]

HHummmm! - someone seems to have opened a can of worms here

[Prof Sporlan]

Plato probably had it all figured out with his philosopher king running his utopian-style kingdom. But there is an implicit impracticality of mixing politics with the philosopher's desire to bring about something like a Maslowian self-actualized society. Socialism and its variants ultimately failed on this very point. Such is the nature of politics.

In the meantime, we'll just have to rely on capitalism and its acceptance of individualism as the most efficient way to move mankind forward.

[mcamacho]

Well, the political apathy is seen in the two extreme situations: where the systems have high power over the citizens, such as in marxist and socialist regimes, and in mature democracies, where a lot of people has vote and voice, but they can hardly get to an agreement, and nothing is done at the end.

United States is not a direct democracy. It is a representative democracy, and that is why things usually work (believe it or not, they do!)

-Manuel.