your views on pressure testing in this situation

[casino]

Hi guys

I’d like your thoughts on this situation. I’ll be brief.

We have a guy that is a newish employee who was on a job with me involving re-locating a condenser. after pumping down, re-locating and extending the pipes a couple of meters I asked him to pressure test and vac down to which he said he was not going to pressure test because he new his flares were ok and proceeded to vac for say 5 to 10 mins without looking at his gauges, disconnecting then releasing the gas. job done. It was also raining that day on and off.

I’d like your thoughts on this experienced engineers procedure.


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[AbsoluteWDJ]

Hi guys

I’d like your thoughts on this situation. I’ll be brief.

We have a guy that is a newish employee who was on a job with me involving re-locating a condenser. after pumping down, re-locating and extending the pipes a couple of meters I asked him to pressure test and vac down to which he said he was not going to pressure test because he new his flares were ok and proceeded to vac for say 5 to 10 mins without looking at his gauges, disconnecting then releasing the gas. job done. It was also raining that day on and off.

I’d like your thoughts on this experienced engineers procedure.


casino

In a rush to get home or pure laziness! How many years experience has the engineer?

[Quality]

Experience could be many years, The question is what standard of work that experience has be gained producing obviously a bad quality of workmanship all round

[Grizzly]

Hi casino.
Hopefully you have some influence with the bosses and he isn't an employee for long.
Did you actually mean a pressure test or a Leak test?
Grizzly

[AbsoluteWDJ]

What I'm trying to establish is how long the experienced engineer has been carry out his work. You asked him to carry out a pressure test and he didn't! Casino...You've worked with the guy...What are your thoughts?

[sedgy]

just tell the boss you dont want to work with him and if the boss wants to know why tell him to ask the ruff-- s cos he might cost you your job by being a ruff ass and giving your firm a bad name

[jdunc2301]

Get rid of him, this really pisses me off!!! He's the reason why the government put all this safe handling crap on us!!!

Tell the boss you don't want to work with him and WHY!

[moondawn]

tell your boss he re commisioned it and dont sign any sheets to say you did. Ie A Commissioning Sheet. And Any comebacks on them job hopefully he can attend them. Nex time you work with him tell him you will do the commisioning and show him how to do it properly!!

[casino]

Hi

he has around 8 years experience with ac and chiller work and has in the last month I think it is, done a refresher safe handling (c&g).

The pressure test would have also been a leak test due to the new flares. I can never tell if my flares are ok unless I pressure/leak test.

This to me is pure laziness and all of your post is what I expected.

C

[NoNickName]

Nothing short of a lawful termination for

-Incompetence.
-Negligence.
-Violation of safety rules and regulations.

[rude]

With a small split i wouldnt pressure test it either. But i would check for leaks once i had vacuumed and released gas.

If this guy didnt leak check well its not the end of the world but he could of done worse! But i spose if i was running a company i wouldnt want my employee's being lazy on the job like that, how hard is it to leak check after you have pressurised the pipe! Not hard!

[AbsoluteWDJ]

Hi

he has around 8 years experience with ac and chiller work and has in the last month I think it is, done a refresher safe handling (c&g).

The pressure test would have also been a leak test due to the new flares. I can never tell if my flares are ok unless I pressure/leak test.

This to me is pure laziness and all of your post is what I expected.

C

Hi Casino...If you don't mind me asking...Are you classed as his apprentice or are you capable of carrying out works by yourself? If working with this engineer is to become a regular thing and you find that his work/standards are poor, then I would suggest talking to your boss discreetly to explain that your not happy working with the guy. If he continues with poor work/standards he'll get found out eventually.

[p_p]

There is only one solution

OFF WITH HIS HEAD.


PP

[casino]

Hi Casino...If you don't mind me asking...Are you classed as his apprentice or are you capable of carrying out works by yourself? If working with this engineer is to become a regular thing and you find that his work/standards are poor, then I would suggest talking to your boss discreetly to explain that your not happy working with the guy. If he continues with poor work/standards he'll get found out eventually.

no i'm more than capable and will do it myself next time i think. i would never not pressure/leak test a system once breaking a seal. leak testing a system is i think the most impotant part.

not leak testing leads to possible call backs and waisted time and money and before you know it it costs more than the job was worth in the first place.

C

[wingman]

I think you should have taken over from the part where he wanted to place the vacuum pump on the system without pressurizing the system with nitrogen first.

[ateeq.baig]

casino
think about the both procedure
if you will pressurised the unit then there is a chance that nitrogen can mix with the refrigerant which is in the unit because of pump down because you will be not conferm about the leakage of shut of valve at high pressure
in this situation you have to discharge all the refrigerant and vacume it.
And if you will not presssurised the unit then there is a chance of leakage
if you will vacume the unit without pressure testing than you can check the leakage during running of unit and if there is leakage you can stop it by tightening the flare fitting
if you have compressor in your out door then check leakage after opening the service valve and check suction line leakage when the compressor in off position and check liquid line leakage when the compressor in ON position

[Brian_UK]

casino
think about the both procedure
if you will pressurised the unit then there is a chance that nitrogen can mix with the refrigerant which is in the unit because of pump down because you will be not conferm about the leakage of shut of valve at high pressure
in this situation you have to discharge all the refrigerant and vacume it.
And if you will not presssurised the unit then there is a chance of leakage
if you will vacume the unit without pressure testing than you can check the leakage during running of unit and if there is leakage you can stop it by tightening the flare fitting
if you have compressor in your out door then check leakage after opening the service valve and check suction line leakage when the compressor in off position and check liquid line leakage when the compressor in ON position

Leak testing when the unit is running will not provide sufficient pressure to provide a satisfactory test pressure.

[nike123]

Leak testing when the unit is running will not provide sufficient pressure to provide a satisfactory test pressure.

When unit is in heating mode (if we speak here about split system domestic units), there is enough pressure for leak test with soap bubbles (big blue or simmilar).

[NoNickName]

If only leak testing with refrigerant would be allowed, which is not.
One thing is having a system that developed a leakage, another is a new system just assembled and put in place.
For the latter it is compulsory to test it with gases not included in the f-gas regulation.

I copy and paste from the code of practice in compliance with f-gas regulation:

Specific to the activities undertaken during the service and maintenance of
refrigeration systems the following actions could be construed as
deliberate venting.
[...]
3 The use of refrigerant as a tracer for leak detection.

[Frostycold]

Hi Casino
Put simply the guy's an idiot. You have no other option but to go to your imediate boss & report him. If you have any problems with this guy you do need to cover yourself. You obviously know right from wrong. Guys like him can cause accidents resulting in injuries to himself & others. At the very least you need to oficialy distance yourself from him.
Frostycold

[jdunc2301]

casino
think about the both procedure
if you will pressurised the unit then there is a chance that nitrogen can mix with the refrigerant which is in the unit because of pump down because you will be not conferm about the leakage of shut of valve at high pressure
in this situation you have to discharge all the refrigerant and vacume it.
And if you will not presssurised the unit then there is a chance of leakage
if you will vacume the unit without pressure testing than you can check the leakage during running of unit and if there is leakage you can stop it by tightening the flare fitting
if you have compressor in your out door then check leakage after opening the service valve and check suction line leakage when the compressor in off position and check liquid line leakage when the compressor in ON position

If we are looking to do a proper job, crossed your T's dotted your i's then yes you DO need to recover all refrigerant and do a full pressure test with OFN. I would do this everytime as its good practice and stops bad habits and workmanship.

If you want to pressure test the pipework in question without risking pushing OFN into the condenser, you could easily see what pressure your refrigerant should be at, at your ambient conditions and not pressure test over that pressure.

(Look at gauges and compare temp to pressure)

If all is satisfactory then open up the system and run the unit, before leaving site run some leak detection spray over the flares just to double check, (well i do anyway)

Looking for a leak using refrigerant is A BIG NO NO....do the job properly or NOT at all.

[Bachuss]

I have over tightened flare nuts before and am glad I pressure tested them because before I was half way to max pressure they gave way, if the guy was new you should have spoke up and told him it was company policy to carry out a pressure test. I am by no mean saying you are to blame for his incompetence just you have a duty of care. Remember inaction can be mistook for approval.

[Tycho]

When unit is in heating mode (if we speak here about split system domestic units), there is enough pressure for leak test with soap bubbles (big blue or simmilar).

test pressure and enough pressure to do a leak test is not the same thing, there are rules and regulations to follow

[Makeit go Right]

I asked him to pressure test and vac down to which he said he was not going to pressure test because he new his flares were ok and proceeded to vac for say 5 to 10 mins without looking at his gauges, disconnecting, then releasing the gas. Job done. It was also raining that day on and off. -casino

Something wrong here:
a) "I asked him to...", which means you were the senior giving him orders. And he is not following your orders. That's the first thing. If he cannot follow your orders you should send him home or back to the yard. Or at least switch off that vac pump. He could cause a real nasty accident with that kind of Know-Best nonsense.

b) "He has in the last month done a refresher Safe Handling (c&g)" Er, no he didn't. We know he can't follow orders, and he certainly is not applying the Safe Handling, so there was no refresh done at all. Just wasted his time going there.

c) But you are in a spot, now. You have let him muck up a job that you were responsible for. A job that'll come back and bit you in several ways. AND you covered up for him! That makes you just as bad as him, now. You put in a crap install, even though you knew there was moisture in there. Phew! Soon you'll be doing the same trick, and feel real bad about it, too. You need to clean that up fast and separate yourself from that nut. He'll get you both sacked......at least!

The very least would be a very noisy "No way, 'osey!!!!" when the boss says: "Take young plonker with you. He seems to have nothing to do." And when plonker wants to know, tell him straight out, with others present too.

And if you find your self in that situation again.... "Oi, WTF? Maybe you didn't hear what I told you to do, but if you are deaf or just plain stupid you can go make the tea instead." (but don't drink that tea).

(Sorry if this sounds hard/harsh, but all you really have is your integrity and pride, and that is about to slide down the plug hole if you do nothing about this. I wish you well, Casino.)

[still learning]

i like to pressure test after every job ,no matter how small.bubble test the flares.
hit and run work gives us a bad name.

[damo567]

i like to pressure test after every job ,no matter how small.bubble test the flares.
hit and run work gives us a bad name.

I agree, I am in the fortunate position of being the permanant on site technician so I am under very little pressure in terms of time and what I say goes. If I say it takes a week, it takes a week. But the buck stops with me, if it's a poor job there is only one man to blame!