c02 heatpump

[goshen]

anybody have ny experiece with the sanyo heat pump using co2 for heating water 80C!!!! ??
thanx

[Greengrocer]

I didn't think the Sanyo system could get any higher than 65c water?
I looked at it earlier this year as a replacement to my ageing gas boiler but it was simply too expensive as a retrofit (at least in UK). Even with me being in the trade and doing much of the work myself I reckon it would cost me £8-10k to install a 9kW system with new tank. Might be more cost effective in a new build premises with underfloor heating and a government grant / subsidy (as they do in Japan).
For that much money I could install an Air to Air VRV/F heat pump system & get cooling as well as heating.
Alternatively simply install a new HE condensing gas boiler for £1k. The saving buys alot of gas even at the inflated prices we are charged now.

[brunstar]

yeah the COP on them is not really good you may want to try the Daikin Altherma or something like that as you do not need temperatures that are soo high.

[alexdesantis]

Why don't you try the Mitsubishi Hot water unit, which reaches up to 70°C?

[alexdesantis]

I mean, why you need 80°C when 65° is enough for every residential water use?

[brunstar]

do you have the COP on that Mitsi system?

[alexdesantis]

do you have the COP on that Mitsi system?

In this link you'll find some technical informations.
The COP should be seasonal because in summer, thanks to heat recovery outdoor unit, you reach up to 6 as COP,I think; in winter of course you have water heating by using heating pump, I think the Cop should be about 3.
see here: mitsubishi-aircon.co.uk/displayfile.asp?id=94342

[desA]

http://www.enex-ref.com/

State of the art in CO2 heat pumps. Nice people as well.

[nike123]

http://www.enex-ref.com/

State of the art in CO2 heat pumps. Nice people as well.

What was story with that EcoCute name. I taught that that is Sanyo reserved name, but after this post I also found that is used by Enex and Daikin.

There it is:

EcoCute (エコキュート ,ekokyūto?) is a registered trademark (No. 4575216 - Japan)[22] of Kansai Electric Power Company, but the term is also used generically to refer to water heaters designed for energy conservation or greenhouse gas emission reduction.

By the way, Enex specifications are not "state of the art" in comparison with Daikin and Sanyo.

Awards to Sanyo & Daikin

Sanyo presented its innovative new Heat Pump able to operate efficiently under extremely low ambient temperature conditions (-20 degrees Celsius), being thus suitable for cold areas such as the Hokkaido region in north Japan. The unit, developed in co-operation with the Hokkaido Electric Power company, won the Chairman Prize of the Energy Conservation Centre of Japan (ECCJ), under the category of Low Ambient Multifunction EcoCute.

Sanyo’s new CO2 Heat Pump uses a ‘split cycle system’ allowing to increase by 50% the heating capacity and by 20% the Coefficient of Performance (COP) at -20° C ambient temperature, when compared to a ‘conventional cycle’ of a Sanyo model.

Daikin, on the other hand, also won the Chairman Prize of ECCJ for its CO2 Heat Pump. With a COP of 5.1, its latest EcoCute unit uses a special ‘water/CO2 Heat Exchanger’.

http://www.r744.com/articles/2008-02...s-launched.php

[desA]

My understanding is that the enEX units have some smarts in their controller. This overcomes the little-published CO2 bi-stability issues - a serious fault in CO2 systems, which can allow multiple operating solutions - some with very poor performance. Their offerings seem to have been well-received on the R744.com site.

I'm planning to bring a unit into Laos for scaling up & down the range. enEX have been extremely supportive along the way.

Perhaps it's more a case of small brand versus 'known name'?

[techguy]

Hi Guys,

All the Japanese Manufacturers call the C02 systems Eco Cute.

Co2 works well in low ambient. where as HFC doesn't.

It is expensive.

65 degrees C can be achieved. With no electric heaters being used. HFC NO.

70 is upper limit at the moment as EU regs dictate this in Japan 90 degrees C is eaisly achieveable.

Weather compensation is bulit in as standard

Sanyo Sell HFC heat pumps also but are only really pushing the C02 as they feel HFC operation is very poor for Uk ambient conditions.

Diakin say differant and good luck to them.

I find if the correct appliance is installed correctly in the correct application whatever the brand it should perform well. Differant products suit differant applications.

Co2 is a good product but like everything else it has to be applied correctly.

T




l

[multisync]

I was chatting to a guy who has an Altherma installed for some time and is monitored by Space on a regular basis. He said the water is kept at 55 deg C -I thought it needed to be over 63 for the legionella ?

That aside he's had it a long time and remains to be convinced by the supposed savings...

[ecohometec]

in reality u done need to hit eighty degrees c and the cascade technolgy that some of the comapnies are using is a bit of a false economy, If you are looking for a high temperature unit i would advised looking into the HT models on the Delonghi range, i have worked with these for a coupe of years now and feel that they are perfect for the system and do exactly what they say on the tin, but be aware in most circumstances more efficint ways are available of heating your home and water the the High temp equipment , i would say only 10 -15% of installation have no other option than the HT equipment