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  1. #1
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    Charging liquid into suction line



    Hi

    I learnt and also advise my students never charge liquid into suction line.

    However I found a manual which states to charge R407 into the suction line in liquid form.

    Please help me understand how the compressor will deal with liquid refrigerant in the suction line

    I download the manual and uploaded it to my site

    acrisoft.bizland.com + mms_i.pdf

    The manual belongs to:
    McQuay International


    Moises



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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    R407C must be charged in liquid state as it's a blend. As for charging directly in to suction I would say it all depends on how much you need to charge in and how close to the compressor you are. If you charge through a shreader connection allowing the gas to flash off slowly you should be ok. Yellow jacket also sell an adaptor for your bottle connector allowing you to safley charge liquid to sucton.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Never is a very big word.

    Me for example, I usually charge liquid into suction line but mostly before the liquid separator.

    Many new blends can only be charged as liquid.

    If you control the liquid amount and watch carefully that the oil in the compressor does not have too much liquid refrigerant, no problems and a lot of time saved.

    This of course require experience and knowledge of the system you charge.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Quote Originally Posted by chemi-cool View Post
    Never is a very big word.

    Me for example, I usually charge liquid into suction line but mostly before the liquid separator.

    Many new blends can only be charged as liquid.

    If you control the liquid amount and watch carefully that the oil in the compressor does not have too much liquid refrigerant, no problems and a lot of time saved.

    This of course require experience and knowledge of the system you charge.
    Is this another term for suction accumilator?

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Yes. Thats the one.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Charging the new blends in a liquid phase does not mean charging it via the compressor's suction port . If we know the amount that a system required,we could use charging cylinder. We could use the easy charge adaptor.never charge the refrigerant in the liquid phase through the suction port means never. And compressor manufacturers recommendations always advice us not to charge the refrigerant through suction port incase of oil migrant and also valve damage. remember that the compressor is a machine to compress only vapour .

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    charge using a cappillary line if your overly concerned
    mmm to beer or not to beer...........lets drink breakfast

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Hi there.
    I need to charge my A/C that uses R407C but I am confused about protocol to follow.
    I ave read that the R 407C must be charge in liquid state, that seem obvious to me but is a problem, I think, to get the ***** inside by the service port.
    I am wondering if it is possible to use a "transfer bottle".
    The point is: Charge a small cilinder with the exact amount of R 407 we need, ant then charge the A/C via service port, and in vapor state.
    I don't know much about refrigeration, so I ask for help in this situation. I really need to charge that machine.

    Any help will be appreciated.

  9. #9
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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Quote Originally Posted by tapadas View Post
    Hi there.
    I need to charge my A/C that uses R407C but I am confused about protocol to follow.
    I ave read that the R 407C must be charge in liquid state, that seem obvious to me but is a problem, I think, to get the ***** inside by the service port.
    I am wondering if it is possible to use a "transfer bottle".
    The point is: Charge a small cilinder with the exact amount of R 407 we need, ant then charge the A/C via service port, and in vapor state.
    I don't know much about refrigeration, so I ask for help in this situation. I really need to charge that machine.

    Any help will be appreciated.
    Charge in liquid form, it is quite simple.

    Connect the bottle to the system via your manifold set as usual.

    Open the bottle valve, if it has a dip-tube fine if not then invert the bottle so that liquid will come out.

    Now crack open the valve on your manifold set so that the liquid is expanded through the valve into a vapour mix before entering the system.

    Liquid has come out of the bottle and that is what must happen.
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    chemi-cool has got it right.
    After all, you wouldn't be able to charge a system in the liquid line this time of the year.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    You can do it easily with a recovery station which we always we do when we recovered gs for a repair.
    Station is already on-site with the right gas on the inside of the unit, no need to vacuum it again.
    And we don't have to calculate the amount of gas, all what was recovered goes back in it again.
    Handy when working on VRV's or VRF's which need a correct amount of gas...they say
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Dont scrolls allow for easier charging of liquid through the suction? I think they handle it better because it wont try to compress the liquid, there is a valve that lifts and allows the liquid to pass through with compression occurring........i think

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    HTML Code:
    Charge in liquid form, it is quite simple.
    
    Connect the bottle to the system via your manifold set as usual. 
    
    Open the bottle valve, if it has a dip-tube fine if not then invert the  bottle so that liquid will come out. 
    
    Now crack open the valve on your manifold set so that the liquid is  expanded through the valve into a vapour mix before entering the system. 
    
    Liquid has come out of the bottle and that is what must happen.
    Thanks Brian!

    The situation is now clear for me.
    When the liquid reaches the valve it passes to vapour phase due the low pressure on the other side of the line.
    I suppose that happens because the compressor create a very low pressure on the service port vaporizing the ***** as son as it pass through the valve.
    I have another question, sorry for the inconvenience, its possible the manifold freeze due the ***** expansion before entering in the suction port?

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Quote Originally Posted by tapadas View Post
    I have another question, sorry for the inconvenience, its possible the manifold freeze due the ***** expansion before entering in the suction port?
    Yes, you can get frost on the manifold but remember that in most cases you are also using the valve core in the access port as another expansion device.

    Do it sensibly and you will soon get a 'feel' for how much to set the manifold valve at.
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Thanks Brian.
    Now, I feel some confidence to do the job in next weekend.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Quote Originally Posted by Collie View Post
    Dont scrolls allow for easier charging of liquid through the suction? I think they handle it better because it wont try to compress the liquid, there is a valve that lifts and allows the liquid to pass through with compression occurring........i think

    Well, I've seen scroll compressors crushed because of liquid slugging anyway, despite being more tolerant.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    I have a case for the Court where 8 Maneurop/Danfoss scrolls broke within 2 years on a Carrier chiller.
    I have pictures of the inside, the scroll is completely gone.
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Can't you charge the liquid threw a vac? That's what I do mostly. if you can't get it all in from vac then some equipment allows you to put it into a pump down mode to charge refrigerant. If not slowly metering it threw gauges into system can be done. Like previously said be carefully as comp shouldn't recieve liquid....

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Thank´s guys.

    Last weekend I charged my machine with 730g of R 407C.
    It was a piece of cake. I used a "transfer bottle" made of a spent oxygen bottle with a small valve fit on.
    I put the bottle in a bucket of frozen salt water on top of a kitchen scale and charged it this way connected to the main bottle that was up side down, I made vacuum in the line and seal the vac pump line. After that I opened slowly the main tank valve and it took me about two minutes to get the 730g in the small bottle, an easy job to do.

  20. #20
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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    It is possible to charge liquid into collector/receiver after the condenser instead of to suction line of compressor. However, the system maybe does not have collector/receiver.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Yes, it is not only possible, but recommended, if you have one installed.

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    Re: Charging liquid into suction line

    Quote Originally Posted by Acrisoft View Post
    Hi

    I learnt and also advise my students never charge liquid into suction line.

    However I found a manual which states to charge R407 into the suction line in liquid form.

    Please help me understand how the compressor will deal with liquid refrigerant in the suction line

    I download the manual and uploaded it to my site

    acrisoft.bizland.com + mms_i.pdf

    The manual belongs to:
    McQuay International


    Moises
    I think
    use a safety charge adapter from yellov jacket
    or use a capillary or use a transfer bottle, or charge liquid slowly and if you hear a furry noise then stop a bit.

    No hazard without risk !

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