Keram 9kw heat pump

[rt29781]

Hi does anyone have any good or bad information about Keram as a supplier of heat pumps (water/water). They are sold in the UK by Navitron. I am thinking of using this heat pump to supplement my solar driven underfloor system. More details on our blog (searchGoogle for smartfrance blogspot) Sorry as a Newbie can't post the URL. We have used Navitron evacuated tube solar panels and they heat the house fine even on a cool windy December day but obviously not when it is cloudy...

[Greengrocer]

Never heard of them. Googling them indicates they are chinese origin. Beware heating companies selling "no name" heat pumps imported from China - they're all trying to get on the "green bandwagon". Ask some questions like - do they stock spare parts (get a price for a compressor or heat exchaanger as a check), what's the warranty, do they have acredited installers & are they experienced in the use and servicing of heat pumps? Also what refrigerant are they running on.
Cheap imports are not always best. You also may want to investigate more established european brands especially those sold in Sweden, Norway, Finland & Germany who have a longer track record with this system and equipment.

[yangchenchen]

what do you mean"no name" heat pumps?
Is Mircrosoft a famous brand thirty years before? Is Manchester united famous before 1969 it reach the peak of Europe?
Nothing is impossible!
In 1400-1600 China maybe the strongest nation in the world.
In 1900 England maybe the strongest nation in the world. It is "Sun-never-setting" nation. It has colonies all over the world.
Everything is changing.
bad to good
good to great

[Brian_UK]

what do you mean"no name" heat pumps?
Is Mircrosoft a famous brand thirty years before? Is Manchester united famous before 1969 it reach the peak of Europe?
Nothing is impossible!
In 1400-1600 China maybe the strongest nation in the world.
In 1900 England maybe the strongest nation in the world. It is "Sun-never-setting" nation. It has colonies all over the world.
Everything is changing.
bad to good
good to great

I would refer you to your own comments given recently....

Taken from http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...697#post143697

To be honest, regarding quality, products from famous brands(such as Vailant, Nibe, Daikin) are better than that of other small brands, chinese products are cheaper, after-sale service is a big problem, but if you are a qualified engineer, nothing is difficult.

[Greengrocer]

I would refer you to your own comments given recently....

Taken from http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...697#post143697

Touche Brian. I thought my original comment was quite concise & to the point. Seems he agrees with me so I I can sleep easy tonight.
Like you & many others I have seen to many "no name" or "badged" equipment that's been sold and installed on the cheap or bought of E-bay and DIY installed. The acid test is when it goes wrong & some poor sod has to try and get manuals or spare spare parts for it. Assuming you manage to track down the importer or "Del Boy" re-seller the likelyhood of a spare parts list or manaual is slim. The normal repsonse to a spare compressor in or out of warranty is the offer a complete new outdoor unit - reason? They don't have any spares in the country. The standard arrangement when you buy systems by the container load is that a couple of spare systems are thrown in for spare parts = warranty support from the manufacturer.

While I'm on a role I'll also have a pop at whoever sells Rheem equipment in the UK as well. Saw 2 x 40kW Cooling only aircooled condensing units today on R22 with 2005 namplate manufacturing dates - when was R22 banned from new installations? I thought 2004. Humm.

Sorry for the rant but it's been one of those days and Arsenal are 3 down at home to MU. Just turned of the TV in disgust & headed for the wine box.

[Brian_UK]

You want a rant? have a free one on me

[gr33n]

Gentlemen,

Keram Heating follows the image of cheap Chinese products pinpoint.

I have an ongoing issue with them: a year ago I ordered a 16kW geothermal pump CSRSS 16H3 from them. The installer discovered it containing a 24kW cooling compressor (Sanyo C-SCN603H8H) instead of a 16kW heating unit. The enclosure is labeled as ordered but the compressor is different. Someone even cut the frame to accommodate the bigger compressor. Of course, the rest of the internals remained as supposed, for example a 17kW evaporator valve.

I had the ground loop (900 m) and the compressor professionally installed and started up. Immediately it alarmed with "low pressure cutout". I got suggestions of adjusting the pressure limiter, which helped to keep the machine running but it didn't really produce any heat, so we gave it a test run with a boiler tank only. The output power calculated from heating the tank was 8kW while the compressor alone draws 6kW. I also tried heating the house with it, it never got over 15C with the pump running 24/7, exactly the same as heating with electrical AUX heaters.

Keram Heating claims that it's an installation error (plus the ground loop is too short) and their pump is very good. The compressor is supposedly correct and they always include a "more powerful" compressor for the customer's preasure. They never explained the label data which does not match. They never respond to relevant questions and claims which they recognize as their error but come up with irrelevant answers which suit them.

I had the system checked by 2 different heat pump engineers and they both came to the same conclusion.

So my suggestion is - stay away from Keram Heating, they either don't know what they are doing or just assemble the units from leftovers providing no real tech support afterwards.

I'm far from being angry yet but they are testing me at their own reputation's expense.

[nickm]

I have a Keram CSRS/SLG 16kw and my to does not have components which do not match with what it says on the name plate or the manual. For example, the heating system and brine system pumps are at variance with the spec. One is too large the other is too small. By the way how do you check whether the correct compressor has been installed for the 16kw unit?

After two years of working (with an number of problems which we eventually overcame) a 'low pressure cutout' alarm appeared a week ago. I cleaned the filter in the brine circuit and now instead of getting a 'low pressure cutout' the compressor does not start at all. Both pumps operate but the compressor doesn't kick in. What I have noticed is the the 'Brine Flow' status displays 'off' even through the Brine pump is running. Could it be a flow switch issue? Can anyone suggest any remedies? Also from where is the 'low pressure alarm' monitored/generated?

I too have had a few email exchanges with Keram regarding shortcomings of the pump (not on this latest issue though) and to tell you the truth it's not worth the bother. You never get anything meaningful from them as you can probably tell from reading the manual!! Unfortunately, the heat pump was in stalled by a Britsh cowboy outfit here in Spain who subsequently went bust so no ongoing local support. Also GSHP is very rare over here in Spain so I am at the mercy of who ever I can find who may have some clue as to what they are doing?

[gr33n]

Hi nickm,

I have found out what's wrong with the unit with the help from a quality heat pump manufacturer. My Keram heat pump is designed wrong from ground up and I think yours is too. I'll send you a message in next couple of days.