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Thread: R22 or134A

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    R22 or134A



    I tried this question earlier but I think I put it in the wrong spot so I'll try again. Hi I am brand new to RE. Im very interested in HVACR but haven't started yet. I've been reading everything I can. I have a lot of questions. I'm hoping some of you can answer for me. Why is it that window air conditioners are R22 and not 134A? Ive always assumed that 134A is in cars and home friges because they are most likely to get a leak from accidents and non professional tinkering. And134A is considered safe for the environment.



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    Re: R22 or134A

    Hi. I found the following explanation about your question,

    Regards
    Josei Melo.
    Ashrae A.Member

    ------------------------------------------------------
    R-134a

    R-134a is the first non-ozone-depleting fluorocarbon
    refrigerant to be commercialized. Developed more
    than 20 years ago to have characteristics similar to
    R-12, it is a viable candidate for use in medium- and
    high-temperature applications in which R-12 has been
    used. R-134a has been generally accepted by the
    automotive air conditioning industry because of its
    low hose permeability and high critical temperature.
    Domestic refrigerator producers also find R-134a to
    be a viable refrigerant for their products. R-134a is
    available from most refrigerant manufacturers.
    R-134a has the benefit of being a single-component
    refrigerant and, therefore, does not have any glide. In
    addition, the direct HGWP of R-134a is low, relative
    to other options that have been evaluated.

    The disadvantage of R-134a lies in its relatively low
    capacity compared to R-22. To utilize this refrigerant,
    all of the tubing within the heat exchangers and
    between the components of a system would need to
    be significantly larger to minimize pressure drops and
    maintain an acceptable operating efficiency. This,
    combined with the greater compressor displacements
    required, results in a system that will be more costly
    than R-22 systems today. The heat-transfer coefficient
    of R-134a is also lower than that of R-22, and tests
    show that system performance degrades with its use.
    In summary, manufacturers would need to invest
    significant time and capital to redesign refrigeration
    systems from R-22 to R-134a and ultimately would have
    a design with inherently lower performance or higher
    cost; therefore, for residential and smaller commercial
    systems in which R-22 has traditionally been used, we
    feel R-134a is the least likely HFC candidate.

    With the exception of ozone-depletion potential,
    Emerson* believes that R-134a possesses the same
    deficiencies as R-12 and represents a step backward
    for most commercial refrigeration and air conditioning "

    -----------------------------------------------------
    From: Refrigerants for Commercial
    Refrigeration Applications
    May 2008 (site:emersonclimate.com/images/5683-RefrigerantWhtPaper_9.pdf)
    -----------------------------------------------------
    *About Emerson Climate Technologies, Inc.
    Emerson Climate Technologies, Inc., part of
    Emerson Climate Technologies,is the world’s
    leading compressor manufacturer,offering more
    than 10,000 compressor models in a full range of technologies,
    including scroll, reciprocating and screw compressor designs.
    for most commercial refrigeration and air conditioning

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    Re: R22 or134A

    Thankyou for your reply and your time I greatly apreciate it

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    Re: R22 or134A

    Great answer above and I suppose we could also say that R22 got there first
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
    Retired March 2015

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    Re: R22 or R410a ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_UK View Post
    Great answer above and I suppose we could also say that R22 got there first
    I appreciate your words. The question then is : R22 or which ?.

    From the same source i can take this words:
    "R-410A is one of the most important HFC refrigerants
    helping the industry meet the 2010 deadline.
    Ample research has shown that R-410A is the best
    replacement for R-22 refrigerants in high-temperature
    systems — and manufacturers agree. Most major
    residential air conditioning manufacturers already offer
    R-410A product lines.

    With new residential energyefficiency regulations going into effect in 2006, significantly more air conditioning manufacturers will have implemented the transition to more energyefficient units, using R-410A.

    R-410A has quickly become the refrigerant of choice
    for use in residential air conditioning applications,
    because the refrigerant delivers higher efficiency and
    better TEWI than other choices. The refrigerant also
    has many benefits that make it an ideal refrigerant for
    use in commercial refrigeration applications.

    There are several distinct operational differences
    between R-22 and R-410A refrigerants. R-410A
    operates at 50 percent higher pressure than R-22;
    however, the higher pressure allows the system to
    actually run at a lower temperature. Because of these
    differences, anyone handling these units should receive training on the technical aspects of the new R-410A systems, where they can learn proper joint brazing and critical maintenance tips for this new refrigerant.

    R-410A is a near-azeotrope composition of 50 percent
    R-32 and 50 percent R-125. To date, optimized system
    testing has shown that R-410A delivers higher system
    efficiency than R-22. R-410A evaporates with a
    35 percent higher heat-transfer coefficient and
    28 percent lower pressure drop compared to R-22.

    Additional system performance enhancements have
    been gained by sizing for equal pressure drop and
    reducing the number of coil circuits needed to increase
    the mass flux. The higher density and pressure also
    permit the use of smaller-diameter tubing, while
    maintaining reasonable pressure drops.

    Because systems that use R-410A have been specially
    designed to use less tubing and fewer coils, R-410A
    has emerged as a very cost-effective refrigerant.
    Fewer materials, along with reduced refrigerant
    charge and better cyclic performance, also contribute
    to the affordability of R-410A.

    R-410A is considered a very high-pressure refrigerant.Very high-pressure refrigerants operate at pressures significantly higher than those normally seen with refrigerants such as R-22 and R-502. They cannot be used as retrofit refrigerants with existing equipment, but only in new equipment (including compressors) specifically designed for them.
    Existing R-22 compressors cannot meet UL and industry design standards with
    these higher pressures
    .

    For refrigeration application, R-410A is potentially the
    most efficient refrigerant at medium-temperature
    conditions (zero to 30 degrees Fahrenheit). Additional
    advantages include reduced line sizes and lower
    pressure drops; however, the system would require
    design for higher pressures. Potential changes in UL
    requirements may reduce the impact. Testing at lower
    temperatures has shown promising results. Research
    is ongoing at Emerson to understand the benefits "

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    Re: R22 or134A

    The question then is : R22 or which ?

    I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
    Retired March 2015

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    Re: R22 or134A

    Ok. Which is the best replacement for R-22 refrigerant ?

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    Re: R22 or134A

    If you are planning a retrofit then use one of the 'drop-in' replacements.

    If a new system design then use R410a.
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
    Retired March 2015

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