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Thread: Basic cold room
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23-10-2008, 09:19 PM #1
Basic cold room
Hi guys,
Im new here, but have found various threads really useful.
I am currently tryinhg to build a cold store for fairly short term storage of home butchered meats and packing etc.
I have constructed a room approx 12' long, 10' wide and 8' high, inside an already insulated barn.
I have built the room out of 6" interlocking PU panels from an old meat plant and have an insulted door and floor. I am proposing to then fit a vapour barrier and a 'wipe clean' surface inside.
What is the simplest, cheapest to run refridgeration unit to keep the temperature about right?
I was given a small fan/compressor/condensor (?) unit by a friend which has R134 in it (?) but I have no idea if this is any good for what I need or how to set it up to cool the room.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers,
John
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23-10-2008, 11:31 PM #2
Re: Basic cold room
Welcome John and good luck with your project.
I feel a great stream of questions coming your way over this oneBrian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
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24-10-2008, 05:50 AM #3
Re: Basic cold room
It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
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24-10-2008, 07:22 AM #4
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Re: Basic cold room
What would be frequency and quantity of new meat loading? What type of meat and how much will be introduced.
Does hot meat will be introduced in cold room while in there is already cooled meat.
What is maximum outside temperature?
What is entering temperature of meat?
What is puling down time? (time to achieve desired meat temperature)
How often would door be opened (regular, heavy, long storage)?
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24-10-2008, 08:35 AM #5
Re: Basic cold room
Thanks for the response so far! sorry for insulting my walls and floors!!
What would be frequency and quantity of new meat loading? What type of meat and how much will be introduced.
we will be bringing in around 200kg of pork every month. most will only be stored and then vacuum packed on the same day and then sent out but some (50kg?) will be hung/shelved for longer.
Does hot meat will be introduced in cold room while in there is already cooled meat.
No, just fresh (cooled) carcasses and butchered joints.
What is maximum outside temperature?
In the insulated barn its a fairly constant 40F
What is entering temperature of meat?
Difficult to say, but it will have come from being in the abbatoir cold store overnight.
What is puling down time? (time to achieve desired meat temperature)
I guess no great panic over this as it will already be cool?
How often would door be opened (regular, heavy, long storage)?
Only a couple of times a day.
We certainly need type and makes of the components you have.
The compressor tank is marked 'electrolux' and looks about 3 or 4 litres. The refridgerant tank is a bit smaller and marked 'eco' and the label says R134. There is a fan stuck on the back of a radiator type unit with what look like coils in behind it. The rad area is about 18" square and the whole thing sits on a littel board with a lead and plug and a little adjustable pressure switch type unit on top.
What I dont know is a) is this any use for me? b)do I stick it in a hole in the wall like a window AC unit? c) which way round would it face!?
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24-10-2008, 10:14 AM #6
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Re: Basic cold room
So, it will be 200kg at one time max?
What is maximum outside temperature?
In the insulated barn its a fairly constant 40F
Also, if you plan to leave condenser inside, that temperature will rise considerably if you don't have sufficient ventilation.
If you , on the other hand, have sufficient ventilation, than indoor temperature will be greatly influenced with outdoor air temperature and cannot be at steady (odd) 40°F.
What is entering temperature of meat?
Difficult to say, but it will have come from being in the abbatoir cold store overnight.Last edited by nike123; 24-10-2008 at 10:23 AM.
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24-10-2008, 10:38 AM #7
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24-10-2008, 12:44 PM #8
Re: Basic cold room
Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
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24-10-2008, 01:58 PM #9
Re: Basic cold room
John
Thanks for posing an interesting question.
But for someone as intellectual as an Architect (your listed occupation).
May I humbly suggest you enlist the services of a local company or Engineer.
Without! I feel this could all end up a right "pigs ear".
Joke (I have been dying to say that!)
Seriously though it is Illegal for anyone without the recognised "safe handling"
Certificates. To work on certainly a project like this.
When chilling meat such as Pork. It is not unusual to see possibly say a 2lb reduction in carcass weight. On an average sized pig.
Purely due to the high amount of moisture (water) extracted fro the carcase during chilling.
Ask any fridge engineer and he will tell you that high moisture content in a chill room... Spells trouble.
Basically this project has a lot of pitfalls that would take a long time to sort out on this forum.
(Sorry Guys! It is not my place to dictate whether people choose to further contribute, I just felt I would clarify some of the issues being discussed)
GrizzlyLast edited by Grizzly; 24-10-2008 at 02:06 PM.
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24-10-2008, 03:09 PM #10
Re: Basic cold room
Yes it is 200kg at a time in one hit on the day or two after slaughter day each month.
I had planned to vent heat to outside.
and temperature doesnt range too far as its almost always pitch dark and well insulated. I will check though!
Points also taken about the need to control humidity. We do alot of air curing hams, biltong, salamis etc and know the risks!
Inside you need an 'evaporator unit' to provide the cooling to the inside; this seems to be missing.
This is what I thought, would that be what attaches to the two crimped pipe ends?
Regarding the points about getting 'qualified' guys in. I will of course bring in the experts for the fitting and commissioning. I just like to know how things work when Im planning and building. That way I can do alot of the graft and learn as I go.
I for one am a great believer that the architectural profession should have as much practical knowledge as possible, I was so frustrated by the lack of this that I gave up building after 18 years and infiltrated the enemy!!
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24-10-2008, 03:58 PM #11
Re: Basic cold room
Basically this project has a lot of pitfalls that would take a long time to sort out on this forum.
Im not entirely sure what you mean here Grizzly, surely its about seeking advice and getting more experienced folks views on the best way to go to chill a room of a given size.
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24-10-2008, 04:17 PM #12
Re: Basic cold room
You are absolutely correct John.
What you say is true, We do share knowledge and experience.
But by me playing devils advocate and you in response giving good and reasonable answers.
( Prior to these it was all a bit vague!)
May just mean that someone will be willing to design your system for you!
Good luck Steve.
PS where are you based as these cured hams etc. sound tempting!
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25-10-2008, 06:54 AM #13
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25-10-2008, 09:45 AM #14
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25-10-2008, 08:41 PM #15
Re: Basic cold room
Points also taken about the need to control humidity. We do alot of air curing hams, biltong, salamis etc and know the risks!
If you're going to be doing biltong in England, vacuum packed, I take it you can get it out to me in France.
I love that stuff. Please let me know how to get it. PM me or otherwise!
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25-10-2008, 10:43 PM #16
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26-10-2008, 09:44 AM #17
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26-10-2008, 09:55 AM #18
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26-10-2008, 11:51 AM #19
Re: Basic cold room
Firstly Taz24 wrote
Somthing like this
Exactly like that!!
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26-10-2008, 11:54 AM #20
Re: Basic cold room
Secondly, Alleluliah!!
now were talking.
so when scavanging around for a suitiable evaporator is there anything I need to ensure.
PS I will be happy to send out Biltong!!
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27-10-2008, 01:48 AM #21
Re: Basic cold room
John, somewhere on the base of the condensing unit there should be a label with the type code of the unit. Failing this, the compressor (large black oval cylinder) will have a code on it.
We will need this inorder to see if the duty (ie how much heat it can remove) is suitable for your purpose.
The previous posts have all been trying to work out what heat load you are trying to cool, which determines what the capabilities of the system need to be.
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27-10-2008, 09:07 AM #22
Re: Basic cold room
The next stage will be "I've bought some bendy copper and some of that funny cold stuff off ebay -how would I go about doing it.."
If he wanted to 'know how things go together' he would buy a book. No, he is a DIY'er pure and simple..
I'm out
Multisync
London
P.S you can buy Biltong on almost every high street
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