You are a name not a number !!!

[grabber01]

Wasn't this the begining to a TV program in the 60's

I have just seen a phrase similar to this on a job advert and i had to laugh. Now, before you managers start jumping up & down i DO NOT !!! think this applies to all companies, in fact some wo post on here seem to have a very good attitude to those of us at the bottom of the ladder.

However, how many of you can say you have spoken to a director recently and have you even been thanked for your'e hard work. Communication seems to be more remote than ever these day's in fact the only time i speak to my service manager is when he is moaning about something.

These days engineers seem to be a commodaty (SPELLING !!!) that come & go with no thought.

For those of you out there at the top, remember us at the bottom. A quick call just to say thanks can go a very long way for moral and can make the difference in engineers feeling they are part of a team not just at the bottom of the ladder keeping directors/owners in the manor they are accstom to

[chemi-cool]

must be the english weather.

its nat at all like that in the usa and where I come from.

good managers are completly involved and know every thing about the people they are in charge of.

its vital for the success of the organization they work for!

chemi

[rbartlett]

http://www.the-prisoner-6.freeserve.co.uk/

cheers

richard

[Bones]

grabber01,

your concerns do not only concern this industry, but the world as a hole. i have had many friends complain about similar disgressions... and have witnessed it also.

companies get bigger... owners forget about their grass roots and screw and screw every dollar they can from everywhere, more from jobs, pay employees less... truth is the way technology changes if all tech's quit - owners getting back into the saltmines would not be an option for many lol and there acustomed lifestyle would follow suit.

all i need is a 40hr a week desk job in a nice a/c office taking hour lunch breaks and getting paid 80K+ a year... for doing nothing a few strokes of a keyboard - in this life it seems the more work you do the less you get paid and the older i get the more i think i'm right!

[Reeferjon]

[chemi-cool]

hi reeferjon,

you were saying............................ what?


chemi

[Reeferjon]

Sorry, yeh, don't know what happened there.

Do you think that the higher up the ladder you get the more isolated and wrapped up in your own work you become, as I see these guys progress and actualy begin to become what they are capable of and move into these 'upper' circles the front line becomes more of a memory and more of a service that they purchase. He/she probabley have the good intensions of calling Fred (the ex-best work mate) but in a life of prioritys it aint one anymore.
As a guy who needs the 'thanks for that - good job' and yes the 'JFDI' occasionaly I agree that life, work would be a lot more productive and tolerable with a few more call to Fred or heaven forbid actualy talking to him face to face.

[chemi-cool]

well,

managing is a profession just like a tech is one.
unfortunatly these people think they play cards with god. not all but too many of them.

good techs are getting hard to find and I think, one of the main reasons are bad managment.
reward is not just a word. it should be done all the time to the right people.

every organisetion is based on the workers that do the "black" work (us in this case), good managment that respond to good techs and reward them, it can be money, courses, better working conditions, etc. etc.

transperency of a any company is very important tool to motivate workers on the production floor.

people at the top have to remember that if they want cooperation, they will have to treat the workers as almost equal partners.

chemi

[shogun7]

I agree with chami, I have been a supervisor and a manager and I must tell you that the men and women were like my children and I loved and respected all of them. In my estimation a supervisor and /or manager has to be totally honest with his people and be ready to defend them when they need help. I have spent 20 years in these various positions and I can tell you that if you are fair, honest and considerate but firm you will get total respect and cooperation from your workers. I have found out that no one is a natural leader it requires study and hard work like any thing else.

Semper Fi "always faithful"

[Bones]

Right on shogun7 and chemi...

most of us in certain times i'm sure, would like management to "share the love a little"... we are drones working none stop getting in most cases the minimum they can pay, while some up the tree get their fat cat saleries and packages with options etc...

cant wait for my office job...!

[rbartlett]

yes, well, except most engineers earn more than most managers..

cheers

richard

[grabber01]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbartlett
[B]yes, well, except most engineers earn more than most managers..

There is probably good reason for that.

How many managers actually work 15 hour days during the summer. I dont mind getting called out at 2am 7 days a week or getting grief off every store i go to in the heawave because i know its part of the job and i am gtting paid for it.

How many managers are on call 24/7.

Weekend ????. I know a manager who fri/sat & sunday doesn't even take mobile calls.

[chemi-cool]

I guess thats why you wont find any "managers forum".

they dont have much to share with others.


chemi

[WebRam]

I am an engineer but I tell you guys and galls. Anyone who can manage us with effect earns my respect LOL

[chemi-cool]

he or she have not been born yet!!!!!!!!!!

chemi

[Abe]

The power changes are shifting I reckon.........the "old" management structure will soon erode, replaced by partnerships instead.

I was talking to Mark the other day, discussing our profiles.....I blurted out how I dont like receiving orders.... he said, I prefer cooperative approach, where each person knows his job, and we all get along together on a task

Sounds good to me

The guys at " the so called bottom" are becoming a sought after rare commodity these days.......More indispensable I would say

The guys at the top, have their strengths ofcourse......but need to adapt...

Gone are the days when the Directors seperated themselves from the workers between wood pannelled partitions

The group/ partnership approach is the most successful strategy I think

Where the upper echelons appreciate the force and heat from below, which keeps the business temperatrure bubbling

Any dis enchantment, loss of moral from below.........the heats out of the kitchen

[grabber01]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aiyub
[B]The power changes are shifting I reckon.........the "old" management structure will soon erode, replaced by partnerships instead.
Gone are the days when the Directors seperated themselves from the workers between wood pannelled partitions
The group/ partnership approach is the most successful strategy I think


I couldn't aggree more, but in certain companies when they expand the people at the top seem to get further away and the walls get higher.

This i think in the long run it will hurt the companies involved. Engineers tend not to be totally loyal to their company, if they can be trated better elsewhere or feel they can have their say and it be heard they will soon go. You only have to look at the job section to see there are plenty of jobs out there fo the right people.

[baker]

I agree with the sentiments expressed about workers and bosses needing to be a team, but the trends in Australia are towards reverting to a feudal system. The bosses are getting more and the workers are getting less, and the percentage difference increases each year. The bosses know that this cannot go on forever, so they are going for broke.

I don't know about the UK, but in the US and Oz, the early 1970s was the last time that an average tradesman could afford to raise a family as the sole breadwinner.

I am been having telephone problems recently and have had 3 different servicemen visit me from the major Telco. Each have been skilled, competent and nice, but they all hate their bosses and the company. They know that the company wants to get rid of them and replace them will less skilled contractors.

It doesn't appear that any of our major companies are thinking about the future - just how the bosses can make a quick profit and get out.

Decades ago in the electrical trade, 15 year olds would enter an apprenticeship, work in the field until they were 35 and then graduate to an office job. These days it is not uncommon to have 60 year olds crawling around under the roof. They aren't training anyone to take their place.

I don't know where this will all end, but I am not optimistic.

[Abe]

Mark Baker

Ive had to use your full name, ( theres too many Marks cluttering these spaces these days!!!.......

I dont know about Oz.......but this is the scenario in the UK these days........all the youngsters are encouraged to stay on and study.....to get into Uni is "piss easy" A degree is not worth the paper is printed on.......you can throw a stone out of your window now, and chances are youll hit a graduate

Some Universities......a select number, have maintained there strict academic standards and remain credible.......a vast number, previously polytechnics......well....

Then theres all sorts of courses to keep the young at college.....Access courses, etc Govt employment figs look good when the young ate studying

Result

No young people entering the trades....Also, the young want to wear Nike caps and dont want to get their hands filthy.......

No builders, plumbers, electricians, etc........We need foreign workers to do the work

I can go and on........theres hardly any apprentiuceships......the economy is now Service, rather then Manufacturing......Management, Financials, Project based.......Focussed on highly profitable segments, rather then broad employment based industries as in the past

Its called Evolution.........I think were the last of the breed, but as always the call for techs will always be there, but will be filled by workers from the global economy, and in future we wont be engineers.......but technicians and mechanics I see wages dropping as well in the future

For us this is the way.......you either get into management or stay on the tools..........unless you work at Hewlett Packard......for fridge techs..........you will stay where you are........

I have a call to make so must cut this short

Chez

[tonydeith]

Hi all


So if there is a decline in our industry what do we do about it???

How many adverts do you see for training to become a refrigeration engineer.When i left school the { It } industry was the be all and end all to get into. Now that their is a shortage of plumbers and construction industry jobs with earnings of 40k+ a year on offer{thats what the ads say} it grabs their attention.Our industry is still recruiting from the same pool of people it always had,people we all know,family, friends, friends of friends.Its not the first thing you think of when you leave school,it wasn,t for me! I got into this game through the old man.But idont see the goverment throughing money at this industry,at least not in the public domain.So whats the answer???

Answers on apostcard please!