Legality of verebal quotes

[monkey spanners]

In april i got a verbal quote for some pipe benders from a well know wholesaler. The wholesaler phoned the bender manufactures to get the price etc. The price i was give was for the benders and formers as a set.

When they turned up the formers where missing

Turns out you have to order them separately and at about another 300 notes

What i was wondering is do they have to supply me the formers and benders for the price agreed back in april?

At the moment the wholesalers are pointing the finger at the bender people, having now been told that they don't import imperial sized formers to the uk.

I have emailed the bender manufactures in Germany and been given the part numbers i need....

Something don't add up.

I suspect someone doesn't want supply the formers for free and is hoping i'll drop dead or forget i ordered them

Jon

[Daddy Cool]

As they say, a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on!

The problem occurs when the wholesalers quoted you verbally for what you understand to be a complete kit, but they could back track and say, no, just for half of it.

You may see this as sharp practice, but i think you will find its lack of product knowledge from the wholesaler.

In simple terms, your contract with them consists of their offer, your acceptance, and 'consideration' (ie Pound Notes) they have the right to withdraw their offer if they realise its wrong, so if you rush a big quote and end up typing £250.00, rather than £250,000, they can't hold you to it, unless you accept their offer of £250, even then, you can argue that they cannot reasonably expect so much for so little, and again this would be their defense with the formers.

Tube expanders are another classic, they give you the tiny sizes included, but the bigger ones are really expensive and you will no doubt need them.

Sorry to be so negative, but unless you spend loads with them and can get a commercial decision, i think it's more notes or a credit note and tell them to have them back and never go back their (often easier said than done too)

[monkey spanners]

Cheers Daddy Cool,

I'd be happy to pay for the formers at their cost price if it comes to it. I'm just getting a bit tired after five months of different stories

Jon

[chemi-cool]

a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on!

I thought verbal contract don't have any papers...

Seriously, If you are working with that supplier for a long time, don't give up, you will win if you are consisted.

BTW, if you use your cell phone, you can record any conversation you want and keep it on your computer.

[Abe]

they have the right to withdraw their offer if they realise its wrong, so if you rush a big quote and end up typing £250.00, rather than £250,000, they can't hold you to it, unless you accept their offer of £250, even then, you can argue that they cannot reasonably expect so much for so little, and again this would be their defense with the formers.

The right to "withdraw" an offer is only valid if it is withdrawn BEFORE acceptance

If they offer you a bender and formers, for say £250.00 and you accept, the contract is formed.

The problem you have is proving that the formers are included in the offer.

Without a written agreement, it comes to proving it.

Herein lies your problem

[Abe]

In april i got a verbal quote for some pipe benders from a well know wholesaler. The wholesaler phoned the bender manufactures to get the price etc. The price i was give was for the benders and formers as a set.

When they turned up the formers where missing


I suspect someone doesn't want supply the formers for free and is hoping i'll drop dead or forget i ordered them

Jon

If what you say is correct, then the there is a breach of contract

[multisync]

You would still be reasonably unlikely to win in a court of law unless you can provide witness(es) to back up your case.

My advice would be esculate it up to managerial level and argue based on your turnover.

Chemi -that is the point of that quotation.

Multisync
london

[Daddy Cool]

Monkey Spanners, It's easy to be smart after the event, and i'm sure we've all been caught, or maybe even used it to our advantage at times. Remember 'if it ain't written, it ain't been said'

Apart from what you thought you should be paying for and receiving, is the problem that they can't/won't get the formers you require?

maybe you should approach them with understanding and remind them that next time you are struggling to bend that inch & eight, that perhaps they wouldn't mind if you brought it in and wrapped it around their heads?? maybe not....

[Abby Normal]

offer, acceptance & compensation

if you gave them a deposit you had a contract

[keepitcool]

Maybe get a price from another vendor with the formers included and compare. If the price is close than you will know you were supposed to receive them. It may or may not help you win but it will let you know if you should deal with this outfit again.

[monkey spanners]

If what you say is correct, then the there is a breach of contract

Cheers Abe, thats what i thought.

I have toyed with the idea of ordering them from another branch and declining to pay for them when they bill me, but its not really in my nature to get arsey with people, this is probably why i haven't got any formers....

Jon

[frank]

I have toyed with the idea of ordering them from another branch and declining to pay for them when they bill me

I think that a new order to a different branch would constitute a new 'contract', so not paying for them would be in breach of contract.

Your thoughts Abe?

[monkey spanners]

I think that a new order to a different branch would constitute a new 'contract', so not paying for them would be in breach of contract.

Your thoughts Abe?

Yeah i expect you are right Frank, just getting a little fed up after five months of "manager is out", "manager is on holiday", "manager is at a funeral", "manager is sorting it", "formers will be in next week", "manager is out", "**** are dragging thier heels", "they don't sell them in this country" etc

Jon

[Abe]

I think that a new order to a different branch would constitute a new 'contract', so not paying for them would be in breach of contract.

Your thoughts Abe?

Hi Frank

The law is very logical, almost scientific
Its like doing a maths equation

A new order is a new contract, tick all the right boxes
In the last matter the contract was not cut and dried and not provable

I like what the other guy said, if it aint wote it aint said

[DEVITG]

I allways said , that is big difference between when YOU BUY , or when THEY SELL.

It is not the same , you shall know what are you buying , if not they will sell what they want.

[Daddy Cool]

Abe, the phrase was drummed into me by my old senior contracts manager who grew up in the construction industry. it proved useful when contracting with 'the big boys' i still use it when they cause delays, write to them to advise or confirm our verbal conversation that they have caused me delays and that to maintain programme i will need a v/o for acceleration costs, however, if i'm late on site, i always call them, if they don't write back to me to tell me this is a problem, no one remembers the details of who said what/when at final account. they won't love you for it, but it dog eat dog out there. confirming everything (that suits you) in writing is time consuming, but saves in the long run. it also serves as a shot across the bow to QS's that they have met their match and they pick on the less organised. try it.

[Abe]

Daddy

Thank you greatly for that.
Itas something Ill always remember and also use it to good effect.

In the legal game, we have to write everything down, called "attendance notes"

Just in case.......