what is this?

[chemi-cool]

hi everybody,

attached , is a picture of milk tank unit.

waht you see is some kind of suction line acumulator, liquid line is connected at the bottom with unfamiliar expention device. adjusting is inside.

runs on R-12. now works fine.
evaporator is a flooded.

anyone ever came accross such machine?
anyone knows whats inside that 4" pipe and how exactly does it work?

chemi

[Mark]

chemi-cool
All the dx milk cooling tanks (ive seen) have had the suction line accumulator at the condensing unit end .With a high wattage heater tape wrapped round to aid the accumulators function ie fabdec,mueller tanks.(depends on field conditions)
Have you pumped the c/u unit down and looked whether theres any sort of expansion,or metering device,at the inlet of the vessel.(If its dx.)
It looks like the vessel pictured is some sort of liquid sub-cooler.
regards mark

[chemi-cool]

hi mark,

there is such a device at the bottom, to adjust it you have to pumpdown and open the nut .
I wil get another picture of ti tomorow.

chemi

[Mark]

hello chemi-cool
If its dx and the (evaparator is flooded for maximum heat transfer),then a fixed metering device or expansion nozzle is sometimes fitted.
Usually if installed and sized appropriately ,and unless showing signs of a serious restriction.The metering device etc usually cannot be adjusted( physically) only cleaned and/ or replaced.
As it has no form of adjustment only merely a restrictor .
hope this helps
kind regards
mark

[condenseddave]

I take care of a few bulk tanks.

All but one (which has an AXV) are fitted with low side floats.

[chemi-cool]

hi condenceddave,

can you post a picture? or the literature of these equipment?

thanks

chemi

[condenseddave]

I can get a pic next time I'm on one. Never really thought to start photographing this old equipment. (Off-topic, but the one dairy farm has a really neat old "Behlen" grain drier that is propane fired. The ignition module is a point/condenser off of a Ford Model T!) Old farm equipment is really very interesting, as are old farmers stories about how they came up with solutions mechanical problems with next to no money.

There is zero literature left for any of these. The newest one is over 30 years old.

I've converted one to 134a, BTW, with great results.

[chemi-cool]

hi condenceddave,

thanks, I'll wait to see it.
over here, no more of these small farms, they are all new and big now and everything is modernized. how baoring.

chemi

[condenseddave]

I blew up your photo to 1200x900. That looks like a low side float, but the design of it is confusing.

I think the angle is throwing me off.

Is that a sightglass at the bottom?

[chemi-cool]

will get this afternoon another picture of the bottom.
it could be a low side flaot. that was the first idea when I first saw it.

chemi

[condenseddave]

The ones I work on are older than dirt, so the design is obviously different. I've never seen a "new" one. It very well could be that. It's the best way I know of to flood an evap.

[chemi-cool]

hi condenceddave,

attached is a picture of the metering or expention device.

it says on it STREAMLINE, could not see any numbers but if you say that should be I'll check again.

mark, where is ANDY?

chemi

[chemi-cool]

woooooooooooops.......
forgot the attachment. here it is.

chemi

[Gary]

A float tank would have connections to the top and bottom of the evaporator shell in order to maintain a representative level, and the sight glass would be near the top, not the bottom.

It doesn't make sense as a subcooler either, because the two side pipes would be the liquid lines going into the milk tank, and they are much larger than the liquid line entering the vessel.

I vote for accumulator, with the two side pipes being the suction lines from the tank, although the bottom feed would cool rather than warm the suction gas. Maybe a de-superheater?

I'm thinking the expansion device feeds the bulk of the refrigerant straight back to the evaporator tubes in the milk tank.

But then, I'm just taking a wild guess.

[Andy]

Hi
what makes you think I know what it is
Might be a thing called a liquid injector, works by venturi effect. The high pressure liquid passing thru a metering device causes a venturi effect, creating a lower pressure area in the flood bottle, allowing a bottom fed evaporator to work as in a liquid overfeed system. Commonly used in Mojo systems, for cooling syrups in the drinks industry.
That's my best guess
feel free to comment as it is only a guess
Regards. Andy

[Peter_1]

What are Mojo systems Andy?
Anyway, it stays a unique piece of antique which Chemi has to treat as his do with his wife .....I think......., he fixed her lights on a holiday LOL

[Andy]

Hi Marc
I would call this a semi-critical charge system. Charge is critical, but a slight under/over charge can be compensated for by adjusting the regulator valve.
The injector works like this. High pressure liquid drops in pressure thru the restrictor valve and usualy a venturi oriface. This liquid forcing thru the oriface plate causes a slight vaccumn. The slight vaccumn sucks the liquid from the flood bottle into the passing liquid stream, stopping the liquid from buliding up in the flood bottle and ending up in the compressor. Basically the system is liqui overfeed with more liquid circulated than can be boiled of in the evaporator. I am assuming that the dry suction dips down in a U shape, with a small hole in the bottem of the U allowing the oil rich refrigerant at the liquid level to pass into the compressor suction, effectivly rectifying the oil from the flood bottle. The working level is seen in the sight glass in the bottom of the flood bottle.
Regards. Andy

[Andy]

Hi Peter
a mojo is a mojorena unit (probably not spelt right) an american trade name of the company that makes these syrup cooling drums, principaly used in the soft drinks industry.
Regards. Andy.

[chemi-cool]

hi andy,

it was markfiddy's: "I expect andy will tell you the answer ".

I like what you have written. it make sense to me.

any way I have started a search with a help of a friend arround small dairy farms in the country to find on more unit which I can cut and share with all of you the results.

I will make another investigation of that metering device at the bottom, it requiers some acrobatic but I think i will manage.
I am looking for a manufacturer name and model.

chemi

[chemi-cool]

hi marc,

the condensing unit equiped with an oil sapetator and I didnt see any sign of low level oil in the compressor so as a problem its ruled out.

I have checked the metering, expention device and on one side it written STREAMLINE and on the other side 48. maybe manufacturing year?

Abit of patient, and I will get another unit and cut it open.

chemi

[rbartlett]

isn't streamline -mueller?

http://www.muellerindustries.com/

cheers

richard

[chemi-cool]

hi richard,

you are right but mueller went through a lot of chages since, so I'm sure they dont make those things any more.

I have found a second hand milk tanks seller in holland and I will get in touch with them after the weekend, maybe they will be helpfull.

by the way richard, you have asked a few months ago on another thread "what KSA stands for" well its KINGDOM SAUDI ARABIA.

chemi

[Mark]

hello chemi - cool
How are you?Im still thinking The vessel is like a slop pot and the metering device is just like a restrictor. thats just my opinion.
I was just having a bit of fun when saying "i expect andy will tell you the answer" .
have fun with it chemi-cool i know you will come to some logical answer .
regards mark

[Mark]

chemi-cool
Is there a liquid reciever on the condensing unit?.This might help establish what sort of metering device is fitted.

[chemi-cool]

hi mark,
there is no liquid reciver on the condensing unit.
the condenser coil is designed to hold the liquid.

even when I close the hand valve before the drier and preform manual pump down, its big enough to hold all the liquid.

chemi

[chemi-cool]

richard,
having fun and laughing is an important part of our life!!

chemi

[Mark]

hi chemi-cool
Ive just been looking at the jpg (again) ,I believe its a suction line accumulator with a built in heat exchanger with the metering device at the inlet.
Did you obtain any more info chemi?.
regards mark

[Mark]

Originally posted by Marc O'Brien
48 cubic inch filter drier shell?

A 48 cubic inch filter drier modified?

your a funny guy marc

[Mark]

no comment marc

[chemi-cool]

well mark,

I have found on a dairy farm in the north of the country another unit and the owner is kipping it for me.

mean while I saw in a book called: COLD AND CHILLED STORAGE TECHNOLOGY written by a bunch of talanted english guys,
a description of a system called: gravity recirculation system. I belive that I am home,. meaning, this is it.

I will scan the pages one of these days and post them.

I'm begining to like Marc and his ideas. his way is a good way to come to the point of the matter, even if it goes in funny ways sometimes.

chemi

[Mark]

chemi
Do you mean circulated refrigerant / overfed .This configuration of pipework does not match that description.Or am i wrong?

regards mark

[chemi-cool]

I mean, GRAVITY RECIRCULATION SYSTEM.

pipes configuration is the same. and I'm almost completly sure.

I will get it eventually.

chemi

[Mark]

ok chemi-cool.

mark