Fujitsu Aoy30 Lnawl

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

Folks i installed a brand new fujitsu cassette type and all ran well for a few weeks and suddenly the customer complained ,that a loud noise from the outdoor unit.When there to do a bit of troubleshooting and found Active Filter Module gone.What is the possible cause for that.I need some input as i am affraid to fit the new one and the same thing to happen to the new one as well.
If power surge then some fuses will blow but in this case i found all fuses O'K.System error code 0:01 E

[p_p]

Check your outdoor fan motors, I've had the same fault myself.

Regards

PP

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

Check your outdoor fan motors, I've had the same fault myself.

Regards

PP

Yeah i definitely will check the fan motor,thank you for the advise.As a matter of fact tomorrow morning i am supposed to change it.I got a manual from Fujitsu technical guys and will check resistance on windings of the fan motoer as well.

[p_p]

Hi Subcontractor

Did you read my thread AOY45LATN. Posted friday updated today.

Find it and read all posts sounds like you have the same fault.
Fault code that doesn't relate to a fault. ( Worst Kind ) even Fujitsu had no idea.

Good Look

PP

[p_p]

The unit i worked on diagnosed by led so i wired a remote to it to try and get a numerical fault code and got the same code as you.Take the blades of the motors and make sure they spin freely, check resistance, insulation etc
Let me know how you get on if you pm me I'll send you my no.


PP

[p_p]

I received your pm but can't reply as you have chosen not to receive pm's

I have the no for fujitsu's top split guy if you need it, but can't post on here, you will have to pm me your email.

PP

[paul_h]

I've measured indoor fan motors with decent ohm ratings before, and still they blow the PCB or fuse, and that's conventional AC fan motors. To get ohm ratings that don't seem shorted means nothing.
But your problem of running for 10min is new to me, so I don't confess of being an expert in the matter.
All I remember in testing fuji fan motors is testing the red and black wires in a diode test mode, should be open circuit one way and about 0.8-1 volts the other. And testng the white and black wires, should be 0.8.v one way and 1.6v the other. If any shorts, ie 0 to under 0.8 V shows up, you need a new fan motor.
I'm sure theres a fuji tech is living in your neck of the woods, get in touch with them lke P_P suggested, fuji don't make that bad of a product, they are huge sellers down here, similar to mitsubishi, and they have the tech knowledge and experience to back it up, they've been in the game longer than most companies.

[paul_h]

So the IPM blew.
Did you megger the compressor?
The IPM normally only goes when the compressor is shorted, and you NEED to megger test it.
Also could have a fault with the AFM.
Swapping boards and finding it still doesn't work, doesn't mean you get another board and try again.
Something is wrong with the system and you need to diagnose it. Sounds like the outdoor is not powering up and I'm going to guess it's the AFM, could be something else though.

I don't think I ever have got a faulty replacement PCB from fujitsu, if I did, maybe 1 out of 400. Some other brands...
But I know where you're coming from regarding inverter reliability.

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

Quite a few answers,thank you guys this is very helpful as this is my weak point the electronics.An update :Today we replaced an active power module and condenser fan motor.We vacced the system and put a 500 g just to have some gas in it 'cause i was not sure about the performance.We powered up the system(the voltage was measures before of course 229 V) and the circuit breaker goes "bang".That is it when the system was running for 10 min then bloody we had some fault codes ...now it just go straight bang.
We detached the interconnecting cable the cond. fan motor and the compressor cables and we powered up the outdoor unit.The circuit breaker switched off again.
Do you thing that if the pcb diod bridge is faulty it will be able to trip fuses.??

[nike123]

Quite a few answers,thank you guys this is very helpful as this is my weak point the electronics.An update :Today we replaced an active power module and condenser fan motor.We vacced the system and put a 500 g just to have some gas in it 'cause i was not sure about the performance.We powered up the system(the voltage was measures before of course 229 V) and the circuit breaker goes "bang".That is it when the system was running for 10 min then bloody we had some fault codes ...now it just go straight bang.
We detached the interconnecting cable the cond. fan motor and the compressor cables and we powered up the outdoor unit.The circuit breaker switched off again.
Do you thing that if the pcb diod bridge is faulty it will be able to trip fuses.??

Try with disconnected IPM board (orange W28 and brown W29 wire)!
If holds, you have damaged IPM board! If not, you have power supply PCB damaged.

That doesn't necessary mean that something else is not faulty (compressor), that's only consequences of other faulty part/s.

[paul_h]

Quite a few answers,thank you guys this is very helpful as this is my weak point the electronics.An update :Today we replaced an active power module and condenser fan motor.We vacced the system and put a 500 g just to have some gas in it 'cause i was not sure about the performance.We powered up the system(the voltage was measures before of course 229 V) and the circuit breaker goes "bang".That is it when the system was running for 10 min then bloody we had some fault codes ...now it just go straight bang.
We detached the interconnecting cable the cond. fan motor and the compressor cables and we powered up the outdoor unit.The circuit breaker switched off again.
Do you thing that if the pcb diod bridge is faulty it will be able to trip fuses.??

You have a serious short there. Fujis normally don't trip the breaker unless the compresor is bad.
The way they normally work is : control system shorted = they won't even power up, they detect the short and cut the power to the outdoor unit, giving you a comms 01 error. AFM, IPM, Diode bridge etc will do this, you wont get a c/b trip, for most of the control side faults, just a comms error because the unit hasn't powered up because it detected the short and shut the system down.
If the motors are shorted, it may power up, then draw high current through the faulty motor and trip a breaker.
Always a first for everything though.
But start with a megger test the compressor, diode test the fan motor, diode test of the IPM.

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

You have a serious short there. Fujis normally don't trip the breaker unless the compresor is bad.
The way they normally work is : control system shorted = they won't even power up, they detect the short and cut the power to the outdoor unit, giving you a comms 01 error. AFM, IPM, Diode bridge etc will do this, you wont get a c/b trip, for most of the control side faults, just a comms error because the unit hasn't powered up because it detected the short and shut the system down.
If the motors are shorted, it may power up, then draw high current through the faulty motor and trip a breaker.
Always a first for everything though.
But start with a megger test the compressor, diode test the fan motor, diode test of the IPM.

When the unit was on the floor i measured the compressor with a MEGGER it was very good.

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

Since all those problems with the condensing unit, i forgot to tell you we don't have a single fuse on a p.c.b. blown.Even the last time when the interconnecting cable,fan motor and compressor were disconnected it trip the 240 V circuit breaker without blowing any fuse on the p.c.b.

[foundahobby]

Anyone suggest running a 100amp delicated line to the outdoor unit and see what blow's up?
Now, just trace the smoke to the faulty part.

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

Anyone suggest running a 100amp delicated line to the outdoor unit and see what blow's up?
Now, just trace the smoke to the faulty part.

Main p.c.b. on the condensing unit trips the fuse.Ordered a new one and waiting patiently to fit it.Let's see what happens.I will keep you updated

[christian]

Hello subcontractor,

Just some quick advise.
Make certain that the pcb is securely fastened down with its original fixings so that there is good contact between the pcb and heatsink fins.
Otherwise it will blow the board in seconds!

I apologise if sounds like i'm teaching you how to suck eggs.

Good luck!

[christian]

Also to make sure there is no manufacturers wrapping attached when finally installing.
There is sometimes small pieces of foam protecting electrical circuits that need removing prior to installing.

[sighman]

In original post you saiud that 'that a loud noise from the outdoor unit'

What kind of noise? may be root of problem?

It is pratice here to replace ALL the boards in an outdoor unit if one fails especially inverter boards.

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

In original post you saiud that 'that a loud noise from the outdoor unit'

What kind of noise? may be root of problem?

It is pratice here to replace ALL the boards in an outdoor unit if one fails especially inverter boards.

Not me,the customer heard loud "bang" and actually the active power module gone.Of course other p.c.b. gone as well changed them one by one and finally it stopped blowing fuses....sad because it took all the p.c.b. and two months scratching heads.
The real cause guys was the heat sink overheating and killed inverter p.c.b.
The ambient around the outdoor unit is quite high and at peak moments it goes very ,very high.

[Prince Vaillant]

Vaillant would have sorted this themselves, without you ever having to have to go back to site!

[nike123]

Vaillant would have sorted this themselves, without you ever having to have to go back to site!

Are you saying that Vaillant would fix it self without human intervention? Are they installed some nanobots in the unit?

[Prince Vaillant]

lol no mate, the warranty covers mechanical breakdown. If a part is faulty on the system they will send their own engineers to sort it. So the customer has a "Vaillant" engineer turn up to fix it. While you get on with your next job!

[frank]

If a part is faulty on the system they will send their own engineers to sort it.

This sounds expensive for Valliant as a Company.
How do you control the installation to ensure that a proper job has been done?
With some of the Numpties I've seen installing, breakdowns are only a few months away

Who picks up the tab?

Do you monitor warranty callouts to find a pattern with certain companies?

[marc5180]

Haha no reply, he musn't have thought about that

[Thermatech]

Valliant installers are mainly domestic plumbing & central heating 'engineers'

They are trained by Valliant to install split systems but would not have any idea how to trouble shoot or solve technical problems with the equipment.

So to support the product Vailliant have to carry out warrantee repairs.

As we suspect the equipment is from the China Haier factories the Vailliant UK service department will be busy if & when they start selling any significant number of split systems.

[p_p]

Hi All

Just to say we have installed quite alot of vaillant kit for ourselves and direct to vaillant, we offer it as a budget alternative to mitsi and I have to be honest we have had only 1 system with an intermittent fault.
Jason allen, vaillants tech guy came out, a new outdoor was fitted the next day, problem over.

Thats pretty good service to me.

Regards

PP

[frank]

Jason allen, vaillants tech guy came out, a new outdoor was fitted the next day, problem over.

Now that sounds like taking a hammer to crack a nut.

Why replace the outdoor unit to solve a problem? Aren't Vaillant able to fault find properly?

Seems an awfully expensive way to run a business.

[p_p]

I'll speak to jason and ask him to reply to your last post ken.

Regards

PP

[l'robot]

They probably replaced the outdoor unit as they had no spares in the UK. They would have to take a whole unit from stock to obtain a PCB then it cannot be resold as they probably do not have the facility to rebuild and restock. Not a good way to run a business!

[p_p]

Maybe you and frank should run vaillant, I bet they don,t realise what they are missing.
For people who have nothing to do with vaillant you seem to know an awfull lot ( or not ) remember little or no knowledge can be dangerous.

Have a nice day, I,m sure Jason will be here soon!

[R1976]

Well, what a nightmare you had. I've had some head scratching with pcb's of late. Is it a good idea then to replace all pcb's in an outdoor unit if only one has failed. I don't think the customer is going to be very happy about this.

[paul_h]

It's the same way it's handled here, manufacturer's tech or contracted service agents handle warranty.
That includes fujitsu, panasonic, LG, mitsubishi, samsung etc.
All but daikin basically and the new/cheap/small brands that don;t have service agents, they just deal with the people that sell or installed them.

If the install is bad, warranty is not given and the customer is billed for any repairs.
Most manufacturers use service agents, so the agent is the one screwed over if no one pays, that's how the manufacturers stay profitable because they don't eat all the loss. ie don't pay the service contractor for the initial diagnosis when installer fault is found. It's up to the agent to bill the customer, and up to the customer to seek compensation from the installer/retailer.

As far as swapping whole units, that's mainly done by non service agents, ie installers who want to be paid for the install they just did.
Complete whole units as spares are very rare here fr the mainstream brands, they mainly are imported JIT straight to resellers, so the manufacturers have no units to spare, just parts and good service agents diagnosing things properly. Installers have better access to replace whole unit's and often they do just to get their money from the customer, then they try their luck getting the unit cost reimbursed from the manufacturer.

It is a bad system IMHO, it encourages the shoddy, backyard, dissapear never to be seen again installers that don't have to worry about doing the job properly, don't have to know how to repair anything, or even how a/cs work. They take their money and run.
If the unit breaks down, the customer has to contact the manufacturer or service agent, who may not honour warranty if the install is bad.

All except Daikin of course, who only sell through there own service agents so they have a reputation for reliability, because only people knowing what they are doing and know that if they stuff it up, they have to fix it themselves during the warranty period anyway.

Do the other brands lose money? Probably, for one, their units are sold at electrical retailers offen discounted. Secondly, any sparky or plumber can become an installer here, and often does a crap job installing them. Thirdly, the customers get annoyed at long wait times for repairs to be done, or for being billed by the repairer if the install is bad. So brand image suffers.
Last, the manufacturer has to pay salaries for their own engineers, and for service agent techs to run around and diagnose all the bad installs.

It's the manufacturers fault though, allowing anybody to buy and install their product.
They could build up a network of specialist sellers and preferred installers, run their own courses for those people etc.

[Vaillant Jay]

Hi All,
I have read all comments made about Vaillant.
Firstly many thanks to P-P. For trying our units and the previous messages.
I have been in the industry for 22 years starting in the refrigeration game then on to Air Conditioning firstly on install then on service so I believe I do know a thing or 2 about fault finding.
The decision to change the outdoor unit was purely a commercial decision.
The PCB had an fault which only showed up now and then this caused the compressor to over heat.
Changing the PCB only was not an option as I did not know if the compressor had been damaged.
The cost of an outdoor unit compared to a compressor and PCB is much cheaper.
So a hammer to crack a nut is far from the truth.
The end result was a happy customer and a happy installer, what more can anyone ask.
We do have spares in the uk, in Derbyshire.
Please try the Vaillant equipment before judging it.
Thanks for reading.
Jason

[paul_h]

Argh! You valiant people are mulitplying!
Got nothing to say about valiant because they aren't sold here. So I'm not knocking the brand or your explanation.

I agree with what you say, if you can replace a unit easily because you have stock, it's always cheaper than trying to stuff around and swap bits.
Think about it, paying a service tech to reclaim, weld and recharge at current western world rates with the techs own prices for welding, refrigerant, labour rates etc is always going to cost a manufacturer more than fitting a premade cheap assembled unit from china. That's not a direct attack at the brand either, because mainy of the mainstream japanese brands are made in china or other southern asian countries now too.
I wish the mainstream brands I serviced had spare units for me. It's a lot easier to change a unit than change a compressor, inverter PCB and reversing valve and possibly adding a drier.
In fact, I've heard of customers, installers and techs falling in love with brands that will just change over a unit, so I don't know why there was criticism in that regard here.
I've worked on mainstream brands that can't get units as mentioned before, or even some times can't get spare parts.
But I've also come acros brands that aren't in the "big 6" that you can't get any help with, as there's boat loads of no name asian stuff dumped in the au market.

[frank]

It would appear that some members think my comments were knocking Vaillant - far from it.

I was merely asking why a complete outdoor unit was replaced when surely spare parts would have sufficed.

Now that Jason has explained the situation, I can see why the decision was taken.

Obviously, the post by p_p did not make clear the whole story behind the decision to replace the outdoor unit, hence the query.

[Robin]

The 3 main heat producing components in the inverter , IPM,diode bridge & Active filter are, or should be screwed firmly to a heat sink & need a special heat transfer paste to allow the heat to be removed. If this was not replaced (or never put on) the expected life of the component is about 20 mins. Is it a possible problem with this unit??