Pre-charged Splits Should Be Banned

[nike123]

@paul-h

As I see it, if you only stop do warranty calls for installs that are done by unlicensed installers everyone will benefit except customers who are choosing to install it by himself or by cheaper unauthorised installers.

As I pointed earlier, here wholesalers make list of authorised installers and only they could install units and sign warranty paper. Service of these units is covered and paid by wholesalers, not manufacturers.
Manufacturers only give discount on price to wholesalers for all units.
And, not to be kidding ourself, proper installation on residential single split-system could do almost every Bonobo monkey with proper tools and 3 hours of training how to make flare and vacuum drying, and 2 hours of how to make drainage properly, and 15 min. of how to properly extend power cord .

[paul_h]

It's the licenced installers that are the problem here.
Electricians, plumbers and anyone experienced in install can get the licence after doing a short college course.
They can't flare, they don't do a decent vac, they don't leak test, they install cheaply (minimal pipe ducting, minimal pipe length, no isolator. In short don't read the installation manual, don't follow best practice, they put the units in inaccessible locations, and just walk away even though they have a licence - more of an enviromental licence to handle refrigerants, not a skills based licence.)
Of course short cuts are made because they don't have to deal with anything after the fact re: breakdowns, and can walk away. If there's a leak, they aren't legally allowed to buy refrigerants, so they will deny any fault, they can't fix it. In the end the manufacturer cops the bad rep.

So the gist of my statements is if you can't buy refrigerant, you have no business installing, therefore units not being precharged shouldn't be a hassle to people that should be installing them in the first place, and keep out people that don't know a damn thing about a/c or refrigeration, installer licence or not.

the electricians, plumbers and mechanics that grant these refrigerant handling licences to the electricians, plumbers and mechanics, felt like it would be the right thing to do to stop fridgies like me working on their own cars a/c!

edit: I'm not getting worked up about this, I'm beyond caring.
I think I made a post ages ago about the pros and cons on different aspects of the industry.
Refrigeration means 24/7
A/c is easier, but a one man band can't do commercial
I'm only doing this domestic stuff (a/c and refrig) because it's easy to be a one man band doing this.
But I've had enough of domestic a/c for all the reasons I've said.
And in the other thread I started once about asking about industrial/commercial work I did say I want to go there for less of this dodgey installer crap.
Hopefully I'm moving within a year to the albany WA area and start doing something different.

[monkey spanners]

I think the problem is some 'tradespeople' doing stuff they obviously are not capable of doing, this leaves customers thinking the world owes them a warranty, which it obviously don't...

I like doing stuff myself, be it a bit of diy round the house, or working on my car or truck and wouldn't want to prevent other formally unqualified people doing stuff for themselves only or not for money.

I would want to prevent them doing work they are not the least bit trained and tested in for others, society works because for the most part we all abide by laws and do whats expected of us. So i think if i'm employing a professional they should know what they are doing, and be the type of person who not only knows how to do but also does things propperly.

Who would want a lift home from a night out by a taxi driver who couldn't drive and/or didn't have insurance, or drove dangerously or quickly to try and get more fares done in a night?

Or as another example, who'd want to buy, and what would the consequences be, of someone with no knowledge making a load of training books for sale to a trade?

I was watching a history program a few months back about food standards hundreds of years ago, and how to be able to make a living bakers were putting chalk and saw dust in the bread to lower prices!!! The trouble is once a few people in a trade start doing this sort of thing, the rest have to follow or go bust to be competative. One persons greed (on the part of the trade) and another persons meanness with money (on the part of the customer) poisons a whole profesion.

I try to be fair in all my dealings with customers, that they get value for money, and to remeber that those companies i buy from need to earn a fair price for their efforts too, but with hacks and bodgers in a pretty much unregulated trade it doesn't really make me much of a living.

Jon

[chemi-cool]

Lucky for me, i have stopped installing splits and repair them some 5 years ago mainly from the reasons you guys wrote here.

As i se it, folks try to save money [or thats what they think they do] and Ministry who set the rulls do not understand **** about splits. On the other side we work under tight regulations of using refrigerants inside the systems.
At the end of the day its politics.

[ycztiflo]

Âñåì ïðèâåò. Õî÷ó ïîäåëèòñÿ ñ âàìè ñâîåé èñòîðèåé. Çàíèìàþñü âåáìàñòåðèíãîì è ÑÅÎ óæå íå ïåðâûé ãîä. Àðåíäóþ õîñòèíãè ñåðâåðà ïîä ðàçëè÷íûå íóæäû. Õîñòèëñÿ íà ìèðîõîñòå, ôðèõîñòå, èìïåðèè, âñåõ íå ïåðå÷èñëèòü. È òóò ìíå îäèí ïîëóçíàêîìûé äðóã ïîñîâåòîâàë çàõîñòèòüñÿ ó (s-dedicated.com). ß êóïèë äëÿ òåñòà VPS-êó çà 20 äîëëàðîâ. Âñå ðàáîòàëî øèêàðíî, ÿ ïåðååõàë òóäà ïîëíîñòüþ, çàëèë ñâîè áåëûå ïðîåêòû, çàëèë òàê æå äîðâåè. Ñïóñòÿ ìåñÿö ìîé ñåðâåðîê íà÷èíàåò îòêëþ÷àòüñÿ, åñòåñòâåííî àäìèíèñòðèðîâàíèå ó s-dedicated ïëàòíîå, ïðèøëîñü êî âñåìó ñâîåìó áóêåòó äîó÷èâàòü àäìèíèñòðèðîâàíèå CENT OS, êîíñîëüíûå êîìàíäû è òîìó ïîäîáíîå. Óòî÷íþ îäèí ìîìåíò, íàãðóçêó íà ñåðâåð ÿ íå ñîçäàâàë, ò.ê. òðàôèêà áûëî â ðàéîíå 2Ê óíèêîâ â ñóòêè. Ïî ìåðå âîçìîæíîñòåé ÿ ïîäûìàë ñâîé ïàäàþùèé ñåðâåð ðàç â íåäåëþ. È òóò ñëó÷àåòñÿ òàêîé ìîìåíò ÷òî ñåðâåð íå ïîäûìàåòñÿ. ß ïèøó â ïîääåðæêó, ãîâîðþ, ïîìîãèòå ïîäíÿòü. Îíè ìíå ïðåäëàãàþò ïëàòíîå àäìèíèñòðèðîâàíèå. 25 äîëëàðîâ çà ïîäíÿòèå ñåðâåðà. ß ÷èòàþ ãóãë è ïîäûìàþ ñåðâåð çàíîâî. Ïîòîì ñåðâåð íà÷àë ïàäàòü êàæäûé äåíü. ß çàäóìàëñÿ î ïåðååçäå. Ïîñëå ïîñëåäíåãî ïàäåíèÿ ñåðâåð íå õîòåë ïåðåãðóæàòüñÿ äàæå ñ ïàíåëè áèëëèíãà. ß ñíîâà îáðàòèëñÿ çà ïîìîùüþ â ñàïïîðò íà ÷òî ïîëó÷èë ñíîâà îòâåò. 25 äîëëàðîâ è âàì ïîäûìóò ñåðâåð. Ìíå ýòà èñòîðèÿ íàäîåëà, ÿ óæå íà÷àë ïîäûñêèâàòü âàðèàíòû ïåðååçäà. Ãîâîðþ ìîë, îòäàéòå ìíå áåêàï ñ ìîåãî ñåðâåðà è ÿ ïîåõàë äàëüøå. Ìàíèáåê íå íóæåí, îñòàâüòå ñåáå. Íà ÷òî ÿ ñíîâà ïîëó÷èë îòâåò, ÷òîá ïîëó÷èòü áåêàï íóæíî ïîäíÿòü ñåðâåð, à ïîäíÿòü åãî ñòîèò 25 äîëëàðîâ. ß çàïîäîçðèë ÷òî ñåðâåð ïàäàåò íå ñëó÷àéíî à ïî çàêàçó, âèäèìî àáîíåíòñêîé ïëàòû õîñòåðó ïîêàçàëîñü ìàëî. ß ïîçâîíèë íà íîìåðà òåëåôîíîâ êîòîðûå óêàçàíû íà ñàéòå, íåñêîëüêî ðàç ïîïàë ñîâåðøåííî â äðóãèå îðãàíèçàöèè è 1 òåëåôîí ìåíÿ ïðèâåë â àäìèíèñòðàîðó, êîòîðûé òàê íàãëî âûìàãàë ó ìåíÿ 25 äîëëàðîâ çà áåêàï ñåðâåðà. ß ïîïðîñèë îòäàòü ìíå áåêàï ïî-õîðîøåìó, íà ÷òî ãîëîñ, ÿâíî ãîìîñåêñóàëüíîé èíòîíàöèåé ìíå îòâåòèë - "Óãðîçû??????? è áðîñèë òðóáêó." Áîëüøå ÿ äîçâîíèòüñÿ íå ñîìã, òðóáêó íèêòî íå áðàë. Àäìèíèñòðàòîð âåë ñåáÿ òàê æå, êàê äåâ÷åíêà â 15 ëåò. Ïîñëå ýòîãî ÿ âèæó ó ñåáÿ â áèëëèíãå ìèíóñ 10 äîëëàðîâ è â òèêåòàõ îòâåò. Àäìèíèñòðàòîð ïîäíÿë âàø ñåðâåð, òàì áûëè âèðóñû è ìû ðåøèëè ñ âàñ ñòÿíóòü 10 äîëëàðîâ. ×åðò ñ íèìè, íà÷àë òÿíóòü ÿ îòòóäà ñâîè áåêàïû, äîðîâ áûëî ìíîãî, ïîýòîìó ïåðåâîçèë ïðîåêò çà ïðîåêòîì íà íîâûé õîñòèíã. Òóò ìíå îñòàåòñÿ ñòÿíóòü ïîñëåäíèé ïðîåêò, ïðåäîïëà÷åííîãî õîñòèíãà ó ìåíÿ îñòàåòñÿ 2 äíÿ, è ÷òî ÿ âèæó - ñåðâåð çàêðûò ðàíüøå ñðîêà. Ïèøó â ïîääåðæêó ñ ïðîñüáîé âåðíóòü áåêàï ñëûøó îòâåò: Âàø ñåðâåð óäàëåí èç-çà íàãðóçêè. ïîëó÷àåòñÿ óäàëèëè ìîè ñàéòû äàæå íå ðàçîáðàâøèñü â ÷åì äåëî. Ïðîñòî âèäèìî ïîíÿëè ÷òî ÿ íå áóäó ïëàòèòü çà àäìèíèñòðèðîâàíèå 25 äîëëàðîâ êàæäûé ðàç, êîãäà îíè áóäóò ìíå ñïåöèàëüíî ëîæèòü ñåðâåð è ðåøèëè ïðîñòî îò ìåíÿ èçáàâèòñÿ. Âîò òàêàÿ èñòîðèÿ. Ïðèëàãàþ ïåðåïèñêó ñ àäìèíîì. Ïðîñìîòð òèêåòà: Îñòàíîâêà ñåðâåðà #1 Ñîîáùåíèå | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 19:25:47 | Âàæíîñòü: | Ñòàòóñ: Âû îñòàíîâèëè ñåðâåð êîãäà ó íåãî åùå îñòàâàëîñü 3 äíÿ. Çàïóñòèòå åãî íà ýòè 3 äíÿ. Ìû íà íèõ ðàñ÷èòûâàëè äëÿ òîãî ÷òîáû ñòÿíóòü âñå áåêàïû. Ñåðâåð äîëæåí áûë ðàáîòàòü äî 22,08,2011 à ñåãîäíÿ òîëüêî 19,08. Äàâàéòå ðàáîòàòü ÷åñòíî!!! #2 Îòâåò (Nik) | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 20:46:57 1. Âàø ñåðâåð ñîçäàë áîëüøóþ íàãðóçêó, ÷òî ïðèâåëî ê ïðîáëåìå. 2. Ó Âàñ äîëã 10 USD ïî ïðåäûäóùåìó ðåøåíèþ Âàøåé ïðîáëåìû. Âàø ñåðâåð îòêëþ÷åí ïî ýòèì ïàðàìåòðàì. #3 Ñîîáùåíèå | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 21:33:48 ìíå íóæíî äîêà÷àòü áåêàï. âåáñåðâåð ìîæåòå íå âêëþ÷àòü, ìíå íóæíî çàéòè â ïàíåëü, ïîñìîòðåòü êàêîìó þçåðó ïðèíàäëåæèò ôòï è ñêà÷àòü áåêàï èç HTML ôàéëîâ. Îðãàíèçóéòå ìíå íà 1 äåíü äîñòóï ê ïàíåëè è ôòï áîëüøå íè÷åãî íå íóæíî #4 Îòâåò (Nik) | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 21:37:49 Íåò òàêîé âîçìîæíîñòè. Ïðè âêëþ÷åíèè Âàøåãî âïñ ñíîâà ñîçäàñòñÿ ïðîáëåìà äëÿ äðóãèõ êëèåíòîâ. Óâû, ïîìî÷ü íå ìîæåì. #5 Ñîîáùåíèå | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 21:57:28 Ñîõðàíèòå áåêàï öåëèêîì è âûëîæèòå åãî íà ëþáîå ôòï ÿ ïåðåêà÷àþ. #6 Îòâåò (Nik) | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 22:02:37 Âàø ñåðâåð óäàëåí. #7 Ñîîáùåíèå | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 22:05:52 óó çà 2 äíÿ äî îêîí÷àíèÿ õîñòèíãà óäàëÿåòå ñåðâåð, êàê ýòî ïîíèìàòü? Íà êàêèõ îñíîâàíèÿõ? âû â êóðñå ÷òî ÿ äàæå ìîãó â ñóä ïîäàòü ? âû ñòåðëè ìîè äàííûå. #8 Îòâåò (Nik) | Äàòà: 2011-08-19 22:08:26 Áóäüòå äîáðû ïîäàâàéòå. Âñòðå÷íûé èñê áóäåò çà ìîðàëüíûé óùåðá, ïîð÷à îáîðóäîâàíèÿ è øòðàô çà ðàçìåùåíèå ïîðíîãðàôèè. (ïåðåä àðåíäîé àäìèíèñòðàòîð ëè÷íî ðàçðåøèë õîñòèòü äîðâåè âçðîñëîé òåìàòèêè). Âîò òàê âîò. Íå ïîïàäèòåñü â ðóêè ê õîñòèíãó s-dedicated.com!

[Gary]

Wow, seems like you are out for me or something.
If I stopped doing warranty calls, it will still be someone else's problem, someone who is not the installer.
The manufacturer will suffer, the poor sap who does warranty will suffer, the customer who bought the unit will be stuck in between (manufacturer voids warranty, warranty repairer refuses to fix without payment, installer can't fix and doesn't want to know about it...)
How is this all about me?

This is not about you and you should not take it personally. You have chosen to represent one side in the debate... and I have chosen to represent the other side.

[Gary]

Lucky for me, i have stopped installing splits and repair them some 5 years ago mainly from the reasons you guys wrote here.

As i se it, folks try to save money [or thats what they think they do] and Ministry who set the rulls do not understand **** about splits. On the other side we work under tight regulations of using refrigerants inside the systems.
At the end of the day its politics.

It is indeed about politics. Governments have driven up costs to the point where the untrained and unlicensed can do the same job much cheaper than those who are trained and licensed... and to the point where it would be insane not to consider doing the job yourself. Gone are the days when, for a reasonable cost, you could have the job done professionally.

[chillerman2006]

It is indeed about politics. Governments have driven up costs to the point where the untrained and unlicensed can do the same job much cheaper than those who are trained and licensed... and to the point where it would be insane not to consider doing the job yourself. Gone are the days when, for a reasonable cost, you could have the job done professionally.

Thats a very true Un-biased view Gary

My biased towards getting shot of these pre-charged units and stronger legistlation/penalties is purely based upon the time/effort/knowledge proffesionals of our industry put in, to have the work ripped from under them by mr bodget & scarper

[Gary]

Thats a very true Un-biased view Gary

My biased towards getting shot of these pre-charged units and stronger legistlation/penalties is purely based upon the time/effort/knowledge proffesionals of our industry put in, to have the work ripped from under them by mr bodget & scarper

Forcing people to use our services is not right... and it is not the answer.

[install monkey]

if splits came out the box with a sniff of ofn then the cowboy plumbers will end up getting round this by fitting a quick fill loop and auto airvent-plumbers should stick to unblocking toilets and changing tap washers!!!

[AUScooler:-)]

Hmm, don't know of sparkies in my area that can buy gas. Know of one or two that have done dual trade and therefore can apply and be issued an "AU" number. ( Australian licence). As for manufacturers asking me to do any warranty, the response is no. Once bitten, twice shy. Must say, the exception is Skope New Zealand, who have not let me down.. Mike.

Under a split RHL licenses a sparky is permitted to add refrigerant to all split wall A/C of less than 18kw when extra refrigerant is needed for longer pipe runs on new installations.

How do they do their job if they cannot buy refrigerant with an RTA?

Not so long ago we done all the a/c work for a automotive repairer recently one of their diesel machanics done the 3 day AUTO course now we do not do the work there. Who is buying the refrigerant? Because we are not buying it for them. I know for a fact there is no fully qualified refrigeration mechanics working there.

[mikeref]

Under a split RHL licenses a sparky is permitted to add refrigerant to all split wall A/C of less than 18kw when extra refrigerant is needed for longer pipe runs on new installations.

How do they do their job if they cannot buy refrigerant with an RTA?

Not so long ago we done all the a/c work for a automotive repairer recently one of their diesel machanics done the 3 day AUTO course now we do not do the work there. Who is buying the refrigerant? Because we are not buying it for them. I know for a fact there is no fully qualified refrigeration mechanics working there.

Auscooler, i don't have an answer to that . RTA, or Refrigerant Trading Authority, coupled with Handling licence is supposed to keep us in the specialist field but obviously, the roof over our heads leaks in many places.. Try as i may to work within the confines of my restricted electrical ticket, there is always some sparkie ready to jump down my throat when grey areas are involved, such as running cable from indoor to outdoor on a split, NOT running cable from the house circuit breaker to the a/c. Had to go through the formalities of "please explain" to the electrical board in Brisbane after this tosser dobbed me in . End result: Don't even think about running any cable on refrigeration gear but once installed electrically, and something happens to that cable, then i,m able to rip it out and rerun it. How about test and tag? Noope. New South Wales fridgies can but Queensland guys, with the same licence, cannot. Have to have another ticket for that !!..Mike.

[AUScooler:-)]

Auscooler, i don't have an answer to that . RTA, or Refrigerant Trading Authority, coupled with Handling licence is supposed to keep us in the specialist field but obviously, the roof over our heads leaks in many places..

So you want proof then?

Well here you go.


http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Amended_R...April_2010.pdf


140, (1) (a), (3) (b) (i)

Regulation 131, 3


P.S the only reason electricians do not get an RTA is because most splits do not need additional refrigerant, once an electrician obtains an RTA they will be audited like we are, 2 times every year, and they will then have to comply with section 141 in the above link like we refrigeration mechanics all do. Its much smarter and cheaper for an electrician not to get an RTA.

[chillerman2006]

Auscooler, i don't have an answer to that . RTA, or Refrigerant Trading Authority, coupled with Handling licence is supposed to keep us in the specialist field but obviously, the roof over our heads leaks in many places.. Try as i may to work within the confines of my restricted electrical ticket, there is always some sparkie ready to jump down my throat when grey areas are involved, such as running cable from indoor to outdoor on a split, NOT running cable from the house circuit breaker to the a/c. Had to go through the formalities of "please explain" to the electrical board in Brisbane after this tosser dobbed me in . End result: Don't even think about running any cable on refrigeration gear but once installed electrically, and something happens to that cable, then i,m able to rip it out and rerun it. How about test and tag? Noope. New South Wales fridgies can but Queensland guys, with the same licence, cannot. Have to have another ticket for that !!..Mike.

So you want proof then?

Well here you go.


http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Amended_R...April_2010.pdf


140, (1) (a), (3) (b) (i)

Regulation 131, 3


P.S the only reason electricians do not get an RTA is because most splits do not need additional refrigerant, once an electrician obtains an RTA they will be audited like we are, 2 times every year, and they will then have to comply with section 141 in the above link like we refrigeration mechanics all do. Its much smarter and cheaper for an electrician not to get an RTA.

Gents

having read this and through the link,
it seems just crazy, you have to stick to rules/regs & sparks dont even when your carrying out the same job

we(engineers - you call mechanics) are hoping for much better regulation here, yet all it seems to have done for you's is ensure you comply

not improved the standards of work allowed when carried out with a restricted licence, now i know why a friend who moved to perth, employs sparks for all his installs
& probaly the answer to who buys the refrigerant is going tobe him as he holds the full licence, i'll phone him about 9:00 uk time & find out how they get round it & let you know

[AUScooler:-)]

Try as i may to work within the confines of my restricted electrical ticket, there is always some sparkie ready to jump down my throat when grey areas are involved, such as running cable from indoor to outdoor on a split, NOT running cable from the house circuit breaker to the a/c. Had to go through the formalities of "please explain" to the electrical board in Brisbane after this tosser dobbed me in . End result: Don't even think about running any cable on refrigeration gear but once installed electrically, and something happens to that cable, then i,m able to rip it out and rerun it.

We are not safe from electrical inspectors, even if we don't do the electricals.

We mount the heat pump and connect the refrigeration, but who does the electricals???? We are not allowed to do a short course to do the electricals.

Just a few month ago I installed a wall mount heat pump above an old electric wall heater. Whilst installing the refrigeration pipe work a home owner asked me, to do the electricals as well as the refrigeration, I said "no call an electrician".
Anyway he went out to the kitchen flipped pages through the phone book then he said, "im going down to the shop". I said to our apprentice "did he even ring an electrician"? "No said our apprentice". 1/2 hour later guess who turns up?

The DIY with some undersized electrical cable.

Now we had almost finished the install and I was happy with my work. Then the DIY pulls off the wall heater and uses the old wall heater supply as the new supply for the heat pump. The DIY ran undersized exposed cable from the old heater across carpeted floor and nailed it to the skirting board drilled a hole through the wall and and poked the wire out to the outdoor unit. It annoyed me because it stuffed up my good installation. At this point I had finished the pipework and left. If that electrical install by the DIY goes wrong the electrical inspector will blame us. The electrical inspector will say you installed it or must have known the DIY was installing it. Even If we dont't know the DIY installed the electricals they will still blame us.

[r.bartlett]

It is indeed about politics. Governments have driven up costs to the point where the untrained and unlicensed can do the same job much cheaper than those who are trained and licensed... and to the point where it would be insane not to consider doing the job yourself. Gone are the days when, for a reasonable cost, you could have the job done professionally.

Complete nonsense. The untrained and unlicenced have always been able to work cheaper in any field. That is simple economics not politics.

[Gary]

Complete nonsense. The untrained and unlicenced have always been able to work cheaper in any field. That is simple economics not politics.

That's true, but the price difference has grown exponentially with all of the government interference.

[Gary]

We are not safe from electrical inspectors, even if we don't do the electricals.

We mount the heat pump and connect the refrigeration, but who does the electricals???? We are not allowed to do a short course to do the electricals.

Just a few month ago I installed a wall mount heat pump above an old electric wall heater. Whilst installing the refrigeration pipe work a home owner asked me, to do the electricals as well as the refrigeration, I said "no call an electrician".
Anyway he went out to the kitchen flipped pages through the phone book then he said, "im going down to the shop". I said to our apprentice "did he even ring an electrician"? "No said our apprentice". 1/2 hour later guess who turns up?

The DIY with some undersized electrical cable.

Now we had almost finished the install and I was happy with my work. Then the DIY pulls off the wall heater and uses the old wall heater supply as the new supply for the heat pump. The DIY ran undersized exposed cable from the old heater across carpeted floor and nailed it to the skirting board drilled a hole through the wall and and poked the wire out to the outdoor unit. It annoyed me because it stuffed up my good installation. At this point I had finished the pipework and left. If that electrical install by the DIY goes wrong the electrical inspector will blame us. The electrical inspector will say you installed it or must have known the DIY was installing it. Even If we dont't know the DIY installed the electricals they will still blame us.

The problem with this scenario is that a.) you were not allowed to do the electricals and b.) you will be blamed for someone else's screwups. You don't need more regulations, you need less regulations.

[chilliwilly]

We are not safe from electrical inspectors, even if we don't do the electricals.

We mount the heat pump and connect the refrigeration, but who does the electricals???? We are not allowed to do a short course to do the electricals.

Just a few month ago I installed a wall mount heat pump above an old electric wall heater. Whilst installing the refrigeration pipe work a home owner asked me, to do the electricals as well as the refrigeration, I said "no call an electrician".
Anyway he went out to the kitchen flipped pages through the phone book then he said, "im going down to the shop". I said to our apprentice "did he even ring an electrician"? "No said our apprentice". 1/2 hour later guess who turns up?

The DIY with some undersized electrical cable.

Now we had almost finished the install and I was happy with my work. Then the DIY pulls off the wall heater and uses the old wall heater supply as the new supply for the heat pump. The DIY ran undersized exposed cable from the old heater across carpeted floor and nailed it to the skirting board drilled a hole through the wall and and poked the wire out to the outdoor unit. It annoyed me because it stuffed up my good installation. At this point I had finished the pipework and left. If that electrical install by the DIY goes wrong the electrical inspector will blame us. The electrical inspector will say you installed it or must have known the DIY was installing it. Even If we dont't know the DIY installed the electricals they will still blame us.

How do you go on with commisioning the finished systems regards to electrical licences, can you rig up an extension lead to feed the unit temporarily? Or do the oz rules prevent you from opening a board up to connect a supply? Its the same in in North America, every trade has to have a licence to be able to nessecarilly diverse to get things sorted. And its my understanding that in Canada, that you have to have a red seal licence to work as an electrician and another red seal licence to be able to work as an industrial electrician? Although in some Provinces they only recognise one licence for both types?

[mikeref]

Nup Chilli,cannot connect supply. I avoid installations unless sparkie is there on site, even then, customer is paying double. Classic case, an extension was added to doctors surgery and 6 splits were fitted. Sparkie did it all, including running copper lines uninsulated together, then ran armorflex over both before cement was poured on them. Cannot be undone now and a/c's don't work their best.. Mike.

[chilliwilly]

It seems to be going that way over here but in a slightly different direction. A fridgie can only comission, repair, and check pressures on a system if they've got the dreaded C&G 2079 or the CITB. But anyone can train to do it within two weeks and be assessed and qualify, I should imagine its similiar to the Oz system. Whereas someone who is time served or qualified to another City and Guilds qualification that is more suited to fridge or aircon, and may take at least two years to complete. Isn't allowed to do anything except install properly and leave the job unfinished.

With the electrical works it stinks even as bad. A time served electrician who may be a technician foreman supervising 50+ sparkies. Can't even fit a light fitting in their own bathroom, a couple of extra sockets in their own kitchen, or wire a circuit for a condensing unit outdoors, or any other circuit for that matter. Unless they're a member of an electrical safety body, or pay the local council around £250.00 to cover around £4500.00 worth of work??? To send out an inspector to simply visually inspect the job and tick box's on a sheet, and rely on the fact that the electrical installation safety certificate has been filled in correctly.

So it would seem that nearly every country has gone totally beauracratic crazy regarding what they define as safe and sound, and compliant with regs and codes. Time served tradesfolk seem to be a dying thing, but folk not even up to a rookie standard with a licence seem to be in more demand!

[paul_h]

All too hard, I'm just going to find a market and deal in sales of spare parts for whatever is hard to get. Let the people buying the parts whine about ****ty installs...
I'm too old to be climbing/jumping over 2 storey roofs anyway. **** domestic, the manufacturers should make the installer provide warranty! Once they did that, then maybe the installers would have a clue and be interested and skilled enough to do repairs, then the whole refrigeration trade can disappear from the domestic scene. Like I said, I really don't care and I'm over it.