What happens when vac oil gets into a system

[marc5180]

as the title says what happens when vac oil gets into a system? i installed a system yesterday and went back today to pressure test then vac out. I sat in the van having my lunch whilst it was on test, then i went back and found it at 500 microns. satisfied the vac was compete i opened the condensor to the pipework by the valves. I took off my guages but i noticed some dirty spray came out, i checked the end of my guage line to see if it was dirty but it wasn't. I thought no mor about it until i went inside and one of the IT guys said that he had, had to unplug the extension lead just for a second
Straight away i thought no!!!! it will have sucked oli in from my vac pump even if it was off for a second or two.
How can i get the vac pump oil out now?

[nike123]

What oil is in system and what oil is in vacuum pump?

[marc5180]

The system is R410a (polyester) and the vac oil is one that i bought from controlls centre off the shelf for use in vac pumps ( not sure of what sort)

[Lowrider]

Vacuum pump oil will do harm, no matter what system it is in.You'll have to flush out the whole system!

[marc5180]

What do you mean by flush out? Can i blow through with nitrogen and triple vac or will this not be enough?

[monkey spanners]

Vac pump oil will be mineral oil. Has you vac pump got a built in check valve? some do and this should have stopped any oil getting back into the system.
I have removed quick couplers from system and lost a bit of oil with the refrigerant which must have come from the system as i've been by the vac pump all the time.
Having said this i have heard horror stories of problems caused by vac pump oil in R410A systems, wouldn't be such a problem with R22 mineral oil systems.

[Lowrider]

I doubt that will be enough! You've opened the valves, so all the oil that was in there will have flowed indoors.

To be sure your best bet will be to contact the manufacturer and maybe they know of a good way to get the oil out!

[nike123]

If you have less than 5% mineral oil in system with POE than you should not experience any problem!
Check page 3 here:
http://www.refron.com/InfoCenter/Tec...ment_Guide.pdf

Check how much oil is gone from vacuum pump (refill pump to same level as before you started to vacuuming, and measure that amount) and find out how many original oil is in system.
Then calculate percentage of vacuum pump oil and if less then 2-3 %, I would not do anything!

[Grizzly]

If you have less than 5% mineral oil in system with POE than you should not experience any problem!
Check page 3 here:
http://www.refron.com/InfoCenter/Tec...ment_Guide.pdf

Check how much oil is gone from vacuum pump (refill pump to same level as before you started to vacuuming, and measure that amount) and find out how many original oil is in system.
Then calculate percentage of vacuum pump oil and if less then 2-3 %, I would not do anything!

Useful link to Dupont Nike!
Thanks Grizly

[kiwireeferman]

If the pump was only off long enough to swap power leads I don't see that it would have entered the system. I believe it would take quite some time for this to occur.

[Argus]

as the title says what happens when vac oil gets into a system? i installed a system yesterday and went back today to pressure test then vac out. I sat in the van having my lunch whilst it was on test, then i went back and found it at 500 microns. satisfied the vac was compete i opened the condensor to the pipework by the valves. I took off my guages but i noticed some dirty spray came out, i checked the end of my guage line to see if it was dirty but it wasn't. I thought no mor about it until i went inside and one of the IT guys said that he had, had to unplug the extension lead just for a second
Straight away i thought no!!!! it will have sucked oli in from my vac pump even if it was off for a second or two.
How can i get the vac pump oil out now?

It's possible that only a small quantity of oil has entered the system. The only way to find out is to drain the Vac pump and see how much is left.

If Vac oil has entered the system, regardless of the type of oil that has been discussed below, it will contain all the krud, moisture and acid etc that it has pulled out of all the systems that it has worked on. Only you know how clean it will be depending on how often you changed it.

A small amount of different oil mixed with the POE may not be too much of a problem - do a risk assessment. If there is moisture and acid suspected, suggest you fit a decent burn- out drier.

In any case, the horse is gone and the stable doors are still open, to use a common metaphor.

As a future precaution, you may guard against this sort of thing happening again by fitting a solenoid valve on the Vac pump intake. If you loose power the valve drops. You could also use a small accumulator with a drain plug fitted to trap oil entering or leaving the pump in either direction. This used to be common practice - admittedly it's awkward on small systems and small pumps - but it can save a lot of trouble.

I'd clean out your gauges and lines too, while you are at it.........


.

[monkey spanners]

Hawco do a little device that srcews onlto the vac pump inlet with a little plastic ball in it, should the power go off the ball gets sucked up and seals the pump off from the system.
I think the new ITE pumps come with a solenoid built in.

[Grizzly]

Hawco do a little device that screws onto the vac pump inlet with a little plastic ball in it, should the power go off the ball gets sucked up and seals the pump off from the system.
I think the new ITE pumps come with a solenoid built in.

Nice reference M.S.
I searched the Hawco site and found something that could be what you refer to.

Called a anti syphon filter 3/8, Is this a non return Valve.

Do you reckon this could be used with a Torr gauge?

http://www.hawco-refrigeration.co.uk...ction_006b.pdf

Has anyone used the system described in this attachment.
Honeywell Eco Flush ???

Grizzly

[nike123]

Guys, check this from Refco!

[marc5180]

The vac oil was changed about 1 month ago but it will be dirty but how dirty i dont know.

I have been asking my boss to order some check valves that would screw onto my gauge line that goes to the vac pump-which would have stopped this happening. I will be ordering one first thing monday morning.

Had a look in my vac pump and it doesnt look like it has lost that much butthe oil is a little dirty, i managed to find out the oil that i put in the vac pump......

JVAC HV88/1

[chemi-cool]

I wouldn't worry too much.
To be safe, change the oil in the copressor after a few working hours.


I still add a bit of R-12 to R-134, R-404 and 507 to help return oil without any problems.
Chemi

[Grizzly]

Guys, check this from Refco!

nice link Nike.
Those valves appear superb!
But am I reading the information correctly as they appear to be Pump Specific?
Cheers Grizzly

[nike123]

nice link Nike.
Those valves appear superb!
But am I reading the information correctly as they appear to be Pump Specific?
Cheers Grizzly

They are made to fit Refco vacuum pumps instead of original connection ports without non return valves. But I am sure that they could fit to any vacuum pump with some adapting inter-piece (if required) made from brass in local turner shop.

[chemi-cool]

Any NRV will do the job.

Chemi

[The MG Pony]

Your poor vac pump! I change oil after every three uses, or I change it after X amount of hours which ever comes first!

Clean oil = good healthy vac pump and deep vacs!

Dirty oil = Short lived pump with poor vacs!

Now as others said, it takes time for the oil to travel, if the guy is fast with cords I doubt it will made it into the system, but better safer then sorry, care fully check the oil in pump to see how much if any left!

Oh and bty if you like your pump run it till hot, drain off all the oil theroughly, turn it only a second to flush the internals. Pour some oil into the intake and run it and let it pull the clean oil through, drain this off. Then add some nice clean oil. This should get all the nasty stuff out leaving your vac pump some what cleaner and happier. I'd do this after every use for about three times to ensure max cleanliness!

[marc5180]

I've been looking everywhere for non return valves for either my vac pump or for my gauges but can't seem to find any one that sells them.
Spoke to parts/climate centre they can't get them, RPW-they cant get them, i even spoke to refco and they say that they dont make them. He suggested if i wanted on that badly to buy a new vac pump with one built in
Does anyone know where i can get them?

[monkey spanners]

Check the link in post 13 by Grizzly, there is one in the hawco book made by CPS. Its a 3/8" connection but you would be able to use a suitable m/mf adaptor if needed.

Jon