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Thread: Daikin Altherma

  1. #51
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    Re: Daikin Altherma



    Frank - sorry mate you are going nuts, that illusive post is #6 in this topic

    LMAO.



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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Quote Originally Posted by jfriman View Post
    Here in sweden is the Altherma a really god solution. Even in the northen part of sweden!

    Everybody is saving a lot of energy!
    / Jfriman
    sorry from my bad english,
    since September 2008, pac altherma daikin air-water model 14 kilowatts ERHQ014AA with hot water

    works very well, even in -12 ° C no problems, and work with out off appoints the resistances.
    consumer price of a fuel bill divided by 3


    Never purchase price, but rather a quality product installed by an artisan who has his own worker
    My advice is to visit homes equipped with different types of heaters to ensure that occupants are monitoring
    installations carried correctly?
    the schemas will not be the same with which the floor heating water temperature is regulated permissible and install radiators with
    In all cases, the total liters (heating circuit may Balloon + buffer) must be 15 liters per kW of power, 25 is a balloon maximum.on advises buffer if the network is less than 50 liters.
    for a mixed PC and install radiators, focus on a secondary control room thermostat to manage the mixing valve 3 way that sends the low water on the pc.
    With an inverter, we must work as much as possible in law to prevent water stops and starts intempestifs.the pac just provide the power required to compensate the losses of the house and this will bring more comfort because the temperature will be constant .

  3. #53
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Hi rr1,

    what kind of HW cylinder are you using over there?. Minus 12 sound fantastic!. do you have any project reports or system monitoring data?.
    Do you use Solar thermal pack?

  4. #54
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    i have been at a house which has two heatpumps fitted.... they have been in from last june andthey never worked right, they then got the electric bill in for the 4months and the units were running at a cost of 30 pound a day.the company who sold them and installed had been out a number of times and washed there hands off the job.. i should add they had been told it would be less than 10 pound aweek. we found both units shot of gas and then undersized.... since then the units have been ripped out and replaced with gas boilers

    these are not daikin units.
    Last edited by thebigcheese; 12-03-2009 at 09:14 PM.

  5. #55
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    are those toshiba units in your avatar?

    Anyway, are you sure your math is correct 'thebigcheese', £30 pounds a day is alot of electricity for any domestic premise!

    Just a quick calc...

    At the worst case with 50deg c flow temp delta t of 5, the COP of an 8kw model which would equate to around 2.6.(excluding hot water)

    Hence for every kw input it outputs 2.6kw. Any air to water heat pump system is generally going to be on in the winter months 18hrs of the day just in order to keep the flow temp topped up.

    Hence this equates to around 3kw power hour input usage, here in the uk domestic tariff is around 10p/p/kwh
    = 18hrs at 30p per hour = £5 per day per heat pump (£10 per day for both)

    And this is worst case scenario, lower flow temps would give you better COPS - 4.5cop at 35 LWT!!

    Your heat pump would equate to a negative COP (more or less), hence the compressor has decided it doesnt like the latent energy cycle and wants to do its own thing or your calcs are incorrect.Have another check mate.

    Cheers

  6. #56
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    there was two 12kw units. ground floor and up stairs. underfloor heating only. the units where short of refrigerant and never reaching temp. therefore two units running none stop 24hours aday.going onto defrost every 10 mins and bringing on elec heaters for the tank when on defrost.

    as i said it wasnt me or my company that installed these we were brought in by a consultant who was working with the client as the oringal company said there was nothing wrong.

  7. #57
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    Re: Daikin Altherma








  8. #58
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Hi Frank, good pictures and installation. Justone question...what's the black cylinder below the RHS of the internal Altherma unit?

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartwking View Post
    Hi rr1,

    what kind of HW cylinder are you using over there?.
    Do you use Solar thermal pack?
    you can see my setup in my photo part section. my hot water tank is 200 liters and consumes 4 kWh per day.
    must be sufficiently open-bottomed taps on loops of the coldest in the house, so that water makes a great way in the underfloor before back to the unit. I do not have solar heating.

    soon I like post any right plan, after several posts

    the ball will be additional to increase the total volume of water, put in line (in on pipes)
    but I prefer no room thermostat. each room's temperature regulated by thermostatic = even more comfort and it is the unit that regulates the demand by the law of water. The thermostat only be used as a limiter of overheating, but it 's without it.
    settle the coldest room of the house (for example a thermostat bath almost fully open) it will be the reference than other parts, thermostats will be adjusted lower by 19c ° anyway.
    so that the unit make no hot water => less than even electrique.
    total cost winter = heating and hot water less than 500 euros,or 460.50 GBP here in the price french domestic tariff

  10. #60
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Quote Originally Posted by Electrocoolman View Post
    Hi Frank, good pictures and installation. Justone question...what's the black cylinder below the RHS of the internal Altherma unit?
    It's a magnetic filter on the return pipe. To the left of it you may note the flow meter on the flow pipe. And in the corner - left - is the 3 way valve. http://www.adeysolutions.co.uk/Professional.asp

    Sinewave should recognise this picture as he came out to visit during commissioning.
    Last edited by frank; 13-03-2009 at 10:28 PM.

  11. #61
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    try visiting www.altherma.co.uk
    Last edited by chillin out; 09-06-2009 at 09:09 PM.

  12. #62
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Frank

    My name is karl and i work for Griffiths Air conditioning and electrical based in Burton Latimer Northamptonshire we have fitted alot of these systems and i have had problems with the kit at all its fantastic take a look at our website for more details or alternativly contact us for a quote to save getting it in the neck down the pub.

    griffithsaircon.co.uk

    Karl

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    why the ad if you've had so many problems with the kit??
    we have fitted alot of these systems and i have had problems with the kit


    al

  14. #64
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    hi karl did you mean havent had problems ?. I have fitted 9 systems 4 of them before this winter and have had no problems my customers who were on oil have saved loads of cash

  15. #65
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    I think we get the message Brunstar

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    He is stuck in some repeating loop! You admins should help him to get out of that loop!

    http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...earchid=769633
    Last edited by nike123; 21-04-2009 at 09:42 PM.

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Yes, nice pix Frank!


    Now the Wifey knows what I've been banging on about recently!

    He who dies with the most Toys, WINS!

  18. #68
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Quote Originally Posted by frank View Post
    Sorry no. I'm leaving the solar panel installation to a specialist.
    I would be weary of people calling themselves solar specialist we have fixed a few of their solar systems already [Website removed, advertising not allowed]
    Last edited by Brian_UK; 09-06-2009 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Website removed.

  19. #69
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    hi ive recently rejoined Space air and am currently looking in great detail at the Altherma system. Why not come to one of our new training courses.

    Originally i was a sceptic that a heat pump would heat in all temperatures, now im converted. The Daikin Altherma is a heat pump chiller capable of heating your water to 55C. Daikins system has a backup heater to assist the heat pump if it is struggling, this is usually only required when the outdoor ambient is very low.

    when we size this kit its a bit of a balancing act because if you undersize the heat pump the backup heater is on more and if you over size the heat pump it has to cycle on and off, remember even inverters can only go so slow, so when the capacity provided exceeds the load we have to cycle it on and off which is not good.

    Daikin have a piece of software which will do all the calcs for you and even tell you when the backup heater will run, how much the energy cost will be and does comparisons with gas oil etc.

    It is not a cheap solution though, an altherma will be more than 3 times the price of a combi boiler but if you are burning oil, or electricity to heat your house installing this thing is a no brainer. The argument for gas fired vs heat pump is less convincing as the run cost savings are less prominent.

    if you have any questions on altherma please ask me, i will try to help. Its a great system which has been really well thought out, the control is fantastic and its designed to save energy wherever possible, it even has a legionella prevention cycle as standard and yes you can link it to swimming pools.

    good luck

    Graham Hendra Space air Consulting Technical Manager

  20. #70
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Quote Originally Posted by hendrag View Post
    Why not come to one of our new training courses.
    I asked a while ago about training for the Altherma but got a bit of a brush off as Neil likes to keep it all secret.

    Went on the Daikin training course instead.

  21. #71
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Graham from Space Air....(its amazing what you can find on google these days)

    There are a number of things wrong with your post.

    1. Its a blatent advert but I wont ask for it to be removed as it serves a purpose.

    2. You were the Technical Guru for LG before moving to UK General Manager for LG....you also worked for Daikin UK as their Technical Guru at one point (stop me if im wrong....)
    Its only now you are convinced that Heat pumps would be sutiable for domestic use.....you were the technical guru werent you...surely as you would know heat pumps for domestic applications have actually been in use for about 15 years....once again ...you were the technical guru werent you????? ;-)

    3. Surely for your first post you could come up with something more viable to boost your all ready faltering credability within the market place...its a little bit of a step down to come from Sales director of LG to go and work for Space Air...dont you think.

    4. What does this say for the company that took you on......

    5. Your own home profile still clearly connects you with LG - sort it out Graham.......

    Anyway i suppose its only a matter of time before Space is bought out by Daikin and you eventually end up back to where you came from and I guess they will be then faced with your credability....



    Goodluck Graham - think your going to need it.....ps still got your own dodgy website running?
    Last edited by krychek; 20-06-2009 at 06:52 PM.

  22. #72
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    would i sense some upset

  23. #73
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    Re: Daikin Altherma



    My post took the emphasis off the original subject matter for that i apologise.

    No upset bigcheese im sure you would agree that its difficult to listen to people who go to one company and state the product is the best then to another and so on, especially all within a 2-3 year timeframe and who was at the highest point in the tree at LG within UK, hence why i called into question credability but most importantly it was a blatent advert.

    Hence the reason for getting a little annoyed, but tbh it could have been any company and manufacturer,this site is to help one another not for personal or company gain in my eyes.....

    Its defo nothing personal i dont even know the guy, but i did get a nice email thanking me for my concern.....i feel all loved.

  24. #74
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Daikins system has a backup heater to assist the heat pump if it is struggling, this is usually only required when the outdoor ambient is very low.
    Nothing like adding a resistive heater element, or two to balance out the thermal performance of a 'Green Energy' heating solution, is there?
    Engineering Specialist - Cuprobraze, Nocolok, CD Technology
    Rarefied Technologies ( SE Asia )

  25. #75
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    It serves a number of functions desA.Although the backup heater will only ever come on a correctly sized system for 3 to 5% of the year for a very good reason, i.e low ambient conditions but still only 3 to 5%.....

    1. the water volume content is lower than any of the manufacturers who dont have a backup heater.

    2. during defrost cycle the backup will kick in to keep the water flow temperature up...imagine if you didnt have it like the other products on the market - cold water thru the manifold...not the best scenario i would think?

    3. green issue - I can see where you maybe coming from, but the efficiency figures and running costs speak for themselves - even europe recognise as renewable form of energy.

    hope this helps.

  26. #76
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    Talking Re: Daikin Altherma

    Frank, Altherma is a good product, i personally have installed 8 systems now. i suggest when using existing Rads you look at changing these to double rads as the low temp isnt as effective on a standard rad, you have to remember that conventional boilers get up to about 80' on the surface. underfloor heating is the best and truley what altherma was designed for, however i believthere is a 50' surface temperatre altherma coming V soon, my opinion is to hang 10 and wait for the new one!!

  27. #77
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Wickens View Post
    Frank, Altherma is a good product, i personally have installed 8 systems now. i suggest when using existing Rads you look at changing these to double rads as the low temp isnt as effective on a standard rad, you have to remember that conventional boilers get up to about 80' on the surface. underfloor heating is the best and truley what altherma was designed for, however i believthere is a 50' surface temperatre altherma coming V soon, my opinion is to hang 10 and wait for the new one!!
    Thanks for your kind words Peter, but, if you read the whole thread, you will note that we have now installed quite a few of these units and are up to speed with the current models, Daikin training and current developments.

    Always nice to read other members posts and opinions though.

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Hi guys, what are the service costs on one of these ?
    Would it be a annual service ?

    Brian

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    my old company really pushed the altherma kit in the north east of scotland as it was not thought about up here and no other companies would take the risk in the current financial climate. The company is now the lone supplier in altherma kit in the north east as the kit has really made an impacted and the feedback has been really good...

    BUT and theres always a but there was a few problems with corrosion on the water senson in the water tank after only 6 months! easy to replace but a fault all the same. This was a good year ago so maby it has been resolved or maby it was jst a bad batch but there u go,

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Hi Frank,

    I have been working with heat pumps for five years now and developed a range of hydralic and electrical schematics to suit a range of units. I have found some units that upon closer inspection carry exactly the same level of control and performance as the units you seem to be looking at but with full BRE approval and along with myself i can help support on grant applications to make things even more cost effective. let me know if i can be of any assistance.

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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    All quiet from the graham hendra camp, nice well researched smack dude!!!

  32. #82
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    has he left Space already ? ;-)

  33. #83
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    looks like a dead thread?! shame you boys cant all get along!

  34. #84
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    just friendly banter............surely you understand that.
    As you can see its a good topic ASHP's with lots of positive input from all sides.

    Do you have anything else to say, what experience do you have with them, bring it to the fold and we can all gather more knowledge about the subject?

    Cheers leeapole.

  35. #85
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Yes, you're right. Heat pump is springing up in China for these two years. The technology is mature , the cost is half and the quality is almost the same. You can find proper in China if you like.

  36. #86
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    Re: Daikin Altherma

    Quote Originally Posted by billliu210 View Post
    yes, you're right. Heat pump is springing up in china for these two years. The technology is mature , the cost is half and the quality is almost the same. You can find proper in china if you like.

    this thread is dead
    My wife used to say you never listen to a word I say at least I think that what she said

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    Smile Re: Daikin Altherma

    Hi there

    Been reading your thread and I'm considering training for the altherma system is there a strong market for this in the uk?

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