CARRIER - experimental coil design

[s7m8a]

Has anyone heard of Carrier's trials with automotive radiator style evap and condenser coils? The design is " supposed" to be more efficient, weigh less & be less prone to refrigerant leaks versus fin coils.

[fintan]

Following is the difference between the new aluminum coils and the copper coils

Compactness: 1 row vs 3 to 4 rows for copper coils
Coil Efficiency: 10% improvement
Unit Efficiency: 2% improvement
Refrigerant Charge: 30% reduction
Coil Weight: 60% reduction
Galvanic Corrosion: 3.5X improvement vs. standard coil
Cleaning: High pressure water w/o damage

[s7m8a]

How long will it be -roughly- for the "radiator" style coils to become available & replace conventional fin coils? I also appreciate your time & all the info, fin.....

[Kh1971]

can you give me more info about the new product
khalid.alhasan@gmail.com

[fintan]

How long will it be -roughly- for the "radiator" style coils to become available & replace conventional fin coils? I also appreciate your time & all the info, fin.....

Carrier have been using the coils for over a year now with no problems. We had only one issue here in Ireland and that was a plumber putting a piece of unistrut through it. Changing the coil was easy enough as it is piped with a few bolts and gaskets.(no welding of pipe-work) Also, the cost of the coil is about 1/10 of the old type.

[Samarjit Sen]

What is the application of these coils. Can they be used for low temperature. Are they finned tubes ?

Could please provide a link where more information could be availed.

[Groid]

The coils are manufacture by Delphi in the states don't get too excited as there have been lots of problems with leakage in particular on Carrier 30XA thunderbolt screw chiller and delphi are reviewing the design.

[willow]

Worked on 20 units+ with no problems with any of them.

[ptsac]

Hi all, Just searched for info on these coils used on some Carrier chillers and found this thread.
I wonder if anyone has any updates on the delphi condensers in particular relating to coil leaks. Have any coils been replaced with a traditional copper/aluminium fin condenser?

Thanks in advance.
Phil

[Groid]

Hi all, Just searched for info on these coils used on some Carrier chillers and found this thread.
I wonder if anyone has any updates on the delphi condensers in particular relating to coil leaks. Have any coils been replaced with a traditional copper/aluminium fin condenser?

Thanks in advance.
Phil

I'm unaware of any coils being replaced in with standard coils unless requested by the end user.

Main problem with these coils has been damage from vibration during transport, I have not had any issues with coils that have been replaced and as long as the manufacturers rigging/transport instructions are followed..

Leaks can be repaired easily with some soft solder and and two pieces of aluminium.

[Groid]

Worked on 20 units+ with no problems with any of them.

If it's a competition I have worked on over 90 chillers that have these coils with an average of 8 per machine (16 in some cases) thats 720 coils.

[desA]

The design principles behind these coils are very simple, actually. I am surpised that the quoted performance is still so low. It seem that some more development still needs to be done, knowing Delphi. I suspect that most will be condensers, which are fairly straightforward. The evaps will be a lot tougher to get stable.

I'd love to see real application feedback on their performance, robustness & endurance.

To manufacture them at competitive prices should be no problem at all.

I want to see these in copper alloys, not aluminium.

[charlie]

Someone has a direct experience in repairing a leak on this type of coils?

This was my major concern the first time i saw one....

Thanks.

[ptsac]

I'm unaware of any coils being replaced in with standard coils unless requested by the end user.

Main problem with these coils has been damage from vibration during transport, I have not had any issues with coils that have been replaced and as long as the manufacturers rigging/transport instructions are followed..

Leaks can be repaired easily with some soft solder and and two pieces of aluminium.

Cheers Groid, thanks for the info.
Do the inlet and outlet flanges have an "o" ring seal or is it a gasket ? I hav'nt been to site so working off reports.

Thanks Phil

[desA]

Following is the difference between the new aluminum coils and the copper coils

Compactness: 1 row vs 3 to 4 rows for copper coils
Coil Efficiency: 10% improvement
Unit Efficiency: 2% improvement
Refrigerant Charge: 30% reduction
Coil Weight: 60% reduction
Galvanic Corrosion: 3.5X improvement vs. standard coil
Cleaning: High pressure water w/o damage

I'm going to have a go at this statement.

If the cores are of aluminium brazed construction, then the fins will be totally annealed & are as soft as tin-foil. One hard spray on the front face will bend the fins flat, in no time at all.

A CuproBraze product (anneal-resistant copper), will take all kinds of punishment. Problem is that the copper world is so incredibly sleepy in developing this technology. I have tried every which way to get folks moving into these products, but all they do is blow bubbles.

[Groid]

Sealing material is a stainless dual skin washer with a neoprene type inner seal, They can normally be re-used but I wold request some be sent with the coil if you are replacing, Also be careful they are dead centre and torque them to 20Nm no more or you will damage the seal

[JHdlinc]

Anyone have pictures or a link?

[jcook1982]

all this talk about and no name.. give us a hint atleast about what to search in google...

[BerryC516]

Someone has a direct experience in repairing a leak on this type of coils?

This was my major concern the first time i saw one....

Thanks.

These type of coils (microchannel) can very easily be repaired with a two-part epoxy. Red epoxy is a decent one as is a kit called "repair bond kit"--at least I think that is what it is called from Johnson manufacturing. Basically, you just block one or two of the 100 plus (typically way more than 100) "microchannels" going in any one direction...no real impact on performance.

[charlie]

Thank you for reply BerryC516.

I have one more question (sorry to be a pain) the repair with a "two part epoxy" can be for sure a good option for circuits working with a low operating pressure refrigerant (like R134a for example).

What about circuits working with a high operating pressure refrigerant like R410a?