Best Brands !

[Danny11]

Proformance,look,reliability,fault diagnsoes which is the best brands out there.?

Your thoughts please

Danny boy

[Josip]

Hi, Danny11

Proformance,look,reliability,fault diagnsoes which is the best brands out there.?

Your thoughts please

Danny boy

... of what?

Best regards, Josip

[frank]

The post is in the AIR CONDITIONING section Josip

Danny11 - why do you ask? - I thought you had FUJITSU written all through you

[The Viking]

Have a look HERE

Or

HERE

[Danny11]

The post is in the AIR CONDITIONING section Josip

Danny11 - why do you ask? - I thought you had FUJITSU written all through you

Yeah we are Fujitsu installers but Just asking in genaral.Maybe a change is on the way.

[Josip]

The post is in the AIR CONDITIONING section Josip

Danny11 - why do you ask? - I thought you had FUJITSU written all through you

See this Frank

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ad.php?t=11827

Best regards, Josip

[nike123]

Why, are you having problems with them?

[frank]

See this Frank

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ad.php?t=11827

Best regards, Josip

I've just had a similar moment in another post - which I've just deleted

[stuartwking]

Best brand would be anything thats not fujitsu!!!!. only joking josip.What would make you change from what you use already?,.I myself are big on Daikin, all mitsi and Hitachi.,. What do you think the not so good points are of fujitsu?,

[Karl Hofmann]

Without a doubt....Airforce

[nikos topts]

mitsubishi trane daikin in my opinion misubishi....

[borodave1973]

Mitsi and Daikin in my eyes all the rest are just pretenders!!!

[paul_h]

Mitsi and Daikin in my eyes all the rest are just pretenders!!!

I don't know, fuji use mitsi designed IPMs and compressors, Panasonic use similar tech to daikin.
I know when you're dealing with bigger stuff, MHI and daikin are in their own league, but for small splits I'm happy to use fuji and pana.
If someone insisted and was willing to pay the daikin price premium, there's no way I'd attempt to talk them out of it, I'd be happy to sell it. But if someone didn't want to pay top dollar, fuji, pana and mitsi are all decent units,. Whatever suits their requirements (ie indoor/outdoor noise) and budget.
At least with fuji there's a couple of guys here with inside in depth knowledge.

edit:
I say this of course having never worked on toshiba and recent hitachi stuff.
But worked on fuji, daikin, pana, LG, airwell email, samsung, fedders, carrier, lennox, mitsi elec, mhi, and every damn POS chinese crap like heller, conia, mistral, celestrial, blueway, chun lan, omni, plus the odd things like delonghi and what the evap cooler brands are flogging under there own name (eg bonaire), and the older a/cs like sanyo, sharp

[Danny11]

Daikin = Overrated

[stuartwking]

Daikin are the best!!!!. might not actually be the best but the all round product is a good one.,

[Dixon]

Daikin's new release wall mounted units are made in China by the largest Chinese brand........FACTAMUNDO!!!
Ask Daikin and they'll not admit it but I bet they will ask how you know. R410a inverter new range to be released this year.

[old time fridgy]

In my opinion it must be Panasonic, still very under rated in the UK, before all the replies that "its just Daikin rebadged" only their "US Series" was and fortunately they have stopped that range. I found it to be reliable and user freindly, and in some cases lower priced than poorer quality equipment. No doubt their will be loads of people who prefer other makes, with loads of horror stories about failures etc but i am sure we could find that on every manufacturer.

[sinewave]

The 'Best' make(s) are the one's you have least trouble with, are easy to instal, get the best back up on etc etc etc





There's no individual right answer!

[aircool]

mitsi electic,can,t be touched,have installed sanyo,panasonic,daiken,mitsi hi, lg and imi and they don,t even come close,anybody that installs and repairs would surely agree

[eggs]

I always go for the underdogs.

Hitachi, quality and affordable.

or


Toshiba, the trades best kept secret...shhhhhhh.. a bit like Stella Artois and Chablis, reassuringly expensive.shhhh

eggs

[brunstar]

It is the Daikin difference that counts, but anything japanese like fujitsu or mitsi are ok too.

LG stands for Lucky to be Going!
the rest i wouldn't piss on!

[sinewave]

the rest i wouldn't piss on!

Did have a piss once up the side of Mitsi Elec PUHRY 250!


Don't think it minded too much as I was desperate!

[Makeit go Right]

Isn't this the question asked you asked in Sept 2007?

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ead.php?t=9752

[kmr296]

Ask your Daikin rep for heat discharge temps at low ambient conditions. They can run some program that will approximate temps at different comditions. Mitsi needs aux heat to keep up at low ambient due to poor heat temp output (say 76 to 80 degrees F discharge from AHU at 0 degrees outside temps). Daikin can easily supply over 100 degrees F dicharge from AHU at 0 degrees.
VRV-III is outstanding if your talking large applications. Auto charging, huge reach with their new lengths, great performance at low ambient, great support from Daikin reps. Just all around a great product. For me, Daikin vs Mitsubishi or other, Daikin wins by far.

[icecube51]

there are many brands ho deserve a change.
the others like Daikin and Mitsubishi ,LG, all have great budgets for commercial and sponsoring.

go to www.alibaba.com and look around,you see ho's the big compressor maker, or evap maker and so on.
then you get an idea on how its don.
there is of course a lot of low budget stuff on the market,try for yourself on wat sounds good,give nice performance out comm,is good to handle an looks nice to.

when you are smart enough you will find a brand that works best for you.

Ice

[Prince Vaillant]

I dont understand why my original post was taken off but i do believe Vaillant will become a decent brand given the chance.

[icecube51]

its not so much the brand, but the after sale back up, spare parts availability,time in years of availabillity, and keeping something wat is proved good going on,instead of chasing the market whit " new" or "better" models.

Ice

[Prince Vaillant]

There IS a full after sales back up, full range of spare parts 10 years in Europe 3 years in the UK, i am not saying they are better than other brands just that they are as good. I can guarantee that this thread will now start to go round in circles!

[Daikin=Overated]

I've worked with prettty much all the brands throughout my career in this trade to date and find myself pushing Hitachi these days having strayed from the Fujitsu camp over the last couple of years.

I would say whilst Mitsi elec offer a solid product with further peace of mind when considering their heritage in their air conditioning range, I find there technical support chaps very stroppy and arrogant. A recent encounter with Mitsi's returns policy will ensure I never use them again. I had to pay over two thirds restocking fee's for a small very expensive component which left me little pocket change. Worse still their delivery driver turned up at the wrong address on route on the wrong day costing me more expense. Major nighmare. Not impressed at all.

I've had too many condensor coil fabrication problems, and dry joint issues with PCB's fresh from the factory with Daikin over the years which has knocked my confidence enough not to want ot work with them anymore sadly.

However when it comes to pricing Daikin aren't the most agressive to be fair for a considered top end brand. In this top end of the market I find the three main contenders being Hitachi, Daikin, Mitsi for me are all much of a muchness in terms of the package your getting from them. I've personally had no comebacks with any Hitachi kit so far, plus there after sales is second to none so I'll be sticking with them.

So I guess this then boils down to the real deal when selecting these manufacturers for many so let's get real here.............Trade discounts lol! Hitachi=tres generous, fujitsu have always had the decievingly over priced RRP thing going on to make their trade discounts all the more appealing, whilst I simply wouldn't entertain the 10-15% offers Daikin and Mitsi offer. I appreciate discount gets better with the quantity of kit you put through but I don't entertain that condition when others are willing to get off on the right foot with you from day dot!

My 2 censes worth!

J.

[paul_h]

I love how cheap LG spares are. I know that you (daikin = overated) have to deal with installs and supporting your install even though it may develop manufacturing defects, but in AU we don't as I have said before.
I only look after older a/cs out of their 5 year factory warranty. The cheaper the spares, the more likely they're going to repair rather than replace, so it's easier money on my end if they are economical to repair.

I just picked up a full complete in chassis, ie. ready to throw in and walk away job done in 15min, inverter PCB for an LG for under 100 pounds. Most brands would be triple that here. Even indoor PCBs cost more than that for major brands. A full chassis mounted inverter control system that cheap beats any other brand.
BTW: It only failed after 5 yrs because a family of lizards made it home and shorted out the board, so it seemed pretty reliable too.
edit: I know you guys have had problems with LG, but you have to support warranty for them. So I know where you're coming from, but that's not the case here, I'm just saying how cheap they are for spares, not that I install them.

[Daikin=Overated]

mitsi electic,can,t be touched,have installed sanyo,panasonic,daiken,mitsi hi, lg and imi and they don,t even come close,anybody that installs and repairs would surely agree

Ha! No mention of Hitachi I noticed he he.

I must admit Mitsi are a good product but you need to suck too much ar** to get a fair discount out of them at first.........fortunately my sales rep was female and well fit, but it could have been a lot worse hey!

[eggs]

Shhhhhhh! Toshiba Shhhhhhhh!

By far the best. Shhhhhhh!

Eggs

[Daikin=Overated]

I love how cheap LG spares are. I know that you (daikin = overated) have to deal with installs and supporting your install even though it may develop manufacturing defects, but in AU we don't as I have said before.
I only look after older a/cs out of their 5 year factory warranty. The cheaper the spares, the more likely they're going to repair rather than replace, so it's easier money on my end if they are economical to repair.

I just picked up a full complete in chassis, ie. ready to throw in and walk away job done in 15min, inverter PCB for an LG for under 100 pounds. Most brands would be triple that here. Even indoor PCBs cost more than that for major brands. A full chassis mounted inverter control system that cheap beats any other brand.
BTW: It only failed after 5 yrs because a family of lizards made it home and shorted out the board, so it seemed pretty reliable too.
edit: I know you guys have had problems with LG, but you have to support warranty for them. So I know where you're coming from, but that's not the case here, I'm just saying how cheap they are for spares, not that I install them.

Fair enough. Coincidently I've raised the question of inverter reliability in another post of mine, and although I'm not one to bash LG as I have never worked on their kit nor recommended it to be honest (and I'm not intending to trigger another debate on the subject neither) I don't think this says much about the reliability of the LG product again if your finding yourself busy after the warranty period over there and spares are made so attractively priced surely. Though I appreciate it keeps you employed so it's a catch 22 and I see your point.

{sorry just read the end of your last post regarding the lizzard plus 5 years is bloody generous for a warranty from any manufacturer-thumbs up!}

[yinmorrison]

No matter what, you cannot argue with the fact that LG produce the most compressors in the world.Check it out.I read this in AC&R a few months back.Maybe they actually make them for every Manufacturer ever think of that, rebadging in China even before it goes elsewhere!

[Prince Vaillant]

Is it not experiences with particular kit and personal preference that drives what you choose? Either that or which particular company you work for at the time of posting! :-) Why do none of you wear your company badges?

[paul_h]

Fair enough. Coincidently I've raised the question of inverter reliability in another post of mine, and although I'm not one to bash LG as I have never worked on their kit nor recommended it to be honest (and I'm not intending to trigger another debate on the subject neither) I don't think this says much about the reliability of the LG product again if your finding yourself busy after the warranty period over there and spares are made so attractively priced surely. Though I appreciate it keeps you employed so it's a catch 22 and I see your point.

{sorry just read the end of your last post regarding the lizzard plus 5 years is bloody generous for a warranty from any manufacturer-thumbs up!}

All brands have 5 yrs warranty here. I fixed enough other bigger brands under 1-2 years old to know they aren't the best either.
But of course warranty doesn't include the native fauna shorting the board out, so regardless of the warranty period, cheaper and available spare for older units is a huge plus. Some brands have no spares available, some brands charge triple the price. LG is a winner is this regard for price and availibility.
Not trying to upset anyones opinions in the UK because you guys have a **** warranty system, ie installer has to fix during the warranty and there's a short warranty period, which of course is not relevant to lizards shorting out the inverter anyway. I'm just saying that I'm happy to repair LGs out of warranty now because their spares are so cheap compared to other brands.
edit:
I used to fix other brands that had failed inverters when they were 1-2 years old. I came across this LG inverter for the first time last week, 5 years old and the fault was caused by lizards. That's a nice change of pace from the other brands failing due to faulty compressors or condenser fans or inverter circuitry due to manufacturing faults. The LG passed the test of time compared to 'better' or more trusted brands.

Is it not experiences with particular kit and personal preference that drives what you choose? Either that or which particular company you work for at the time of posting! :-) Why do none of you wear your company badges?

No it's not. I worked for a factory authorised service agent for fuji, samsung and pana, so we were given some service manuals for them. But they sent me out to other brands, freezer and coolrooms as well as light aircraft too.
Familiarity is not the be all and end all, if something runs predictively, logically and if resources are available (supplier, wholesaler, internet or refrig-tech), and parts are available then the average tech will look at it and repair it.
I don't knock back repair jobs because its not fuji, pana or samsung. Last week I repaired an LG and a 30 year old Pope package unit made by borg warner. ( These days Pope make garden sprinklers here, borg warner make car gear boxes)
It's like university here, they don't teach you the subject, they teach you "how to learn" and you do it yourself. If a manufacturer lays everything out, then you get people willing to learn their system.

[Daikin=Overated]

No matter what, you cannot argue with the fact that LG produce the most compressors in the world.Check it out.I read this in AC&R a few months back.Maybe they actually make them for every Manufacturer ever think of that, rebadging in China even before it goes elsewhere!

Daikin....highly likely.Hitachi never!

[Daikin=Overated]

Is it not experiences with particular kit and personal preference that drives what you choose? Either that or which particular company you work for at the time of posting! :-) Why do none of you wear your company badges?

yeah...my first reply in this post was all about my personal preference of manufacturers based on experience/aftersales service. My comments on trade discount are in jest btw.

Besides, in this trade you have to be familiar and competent whilst working with many manufacturers
and as such you can't afford to get in to bed with any one manufacturer nor their distributor. Otherwise you become blinkered and out of practice when working with all the other kit out there, whilst the mechanics and science of these things is relatively similar throughout it's the software and electronics that's the hardest to keep pace with.

[Prince Vaillant]

yeah...my first reply in this post was all about my personal preference of manufacturers based on experience/aftersales service. My comments on trade discount are in jest btw.

Besides, in this trade you have to be familiar and competent whilst working with many manufacturers
and as such you can't afford to get in to bed with any one manufacturer nor their distributor. Otherwise you become blinkered and out of practice when working with all the other kit out there, whilst the mechanics and science of these things is relatively similar throughout it's the software and electronics that's the hardest to keep pace with.

Fair play and a fair reply!

[Ross]

It's like university here, they don't teach you the subject, they teach you "how to learn" and you do it yourself. If a manufacturer lays everything out, then you get people willing to learn their system.[/QUOTE]

[Ross]

I was going to say, "well said. I'm on your wave length man!"

[paul_h]

No matter what, you cannot argue with the fact that LG produce the most compressors in the world.Check it out.I read this in AC&R a few months back.Maybe they actually make them for every Manufacturer ever think of that, rebadging in China even before it goes elsewhere!

Thailand makes Fujis larger compressors, under licence from mitsubishi
LG isn't even a chinese company

[Prince Vaillant]

a compressor is black and could be made anywhere! i wonder where all the stickers are printed?

[frank]

Not all compressors are black

[paul_h]

Just have to update here. As I said before, I'm a fan of LG parts pricing
I was a fan of panasonic a/c's. Yes they may be hard to diagnose due to lack of support. But when you learn them it's easy, their service manual are second to none, each one is massive. Also add to the fact they hardly ever stuff up, and they are cheaper than most brands to buy in the first place.
But I came across one that had a stuffed compressor, for a new compressor and drier it was $800 before tax and delivery. So with tax, welding, labour, 1kg of r410 etc I'm looking at $1100 minimum.
You can get a whole new split for that much
Late edit: Actually you can buy a whole new panasonic split for $990, with $125 manufacturers cash back via coupon.
so $800 for compressor, plus reclaim, welding, nitrogen, recharging etc
or $865 for a whole new unit, no welding, nitrogen, R410a required.
Another split going to end up at the rubbish dump for landfill it is!

[richardb14]

TBH they are all much the same, couldn't really choose between daikin or Mitsy electric. on a budget though the Fujitsus are great, and if you stick with it the mitsy heavy industries can be good too (but their manuals are shocking)

[arcticboy]

carrier=under capacity

[Duzter]

If a friend asks if I could install a heat pump in his house I'd say:

"Well, if you want the Mercedes, I'd go for Daikin. But if you want a cheap and reliable heat pump, I'd go for Hitachi."

Never had any problems with Daikin products. Gotta love the FTXG-E design.