R22 Compressor

[bimalbs]

Hello friends,

I am doing my final year project in Mechanical Engineering. Our topic is "Use of LPG as an alternate refrigerant to R12".

But in the experimental setup in our college, we have got the compressor used for filling R22. So does anybody has an idea whether LPG can be filled in this compressor?

I would also request you all to provide links of the related articles showing experimental results of LPG as a refrigerant. Theory paper links may also be provided....

Expecting a good response...

[The MG Pony]

Yes Propane (R-290) works like a treat in R-22 compressors, how ever need to switch to a tad thicker oil.

There are a considerable number of PDFs out there detailing the exact info you wish, simply search for PDFs on Hydrocarbon refrigerants, abreviated as HC, or you can search for info on R-290 (A hydrocarbon (Propane) refrigerant).

[powell]

Hello friends,

I am doing my final year project in Mechanical Engineering. Our topic is "Use of LPG as an alternate refrigerant to R12".

But in the experimental setup in our college, we have got the compressor used for filling R22. So does anybody has an idea whether LPG can be filled in this compressor?

I would also request you all to provide links of the related articles showing experimental results of LPG as a refrigerant. Theory paper links may also be provided....

Expecting a good response...

Liquefied Petroleum Gas?

Absolutely do not try this experiment until you have approval from the compressor manufacturer or find a compressor rated for LPG.

Just for starters, many compressors are refrigerant cooled meaning the refrigerant flows over the motor windings...boom!

Here's a link to Copelands AE bulletins, check out Section 17 number 17-1233.

http://www.hvacrinfo.com/ae_index.htm

[bimalbs]

Thanks for the link anyway, my friend I will check out the compressor manufacturer details before trying this experiment.

As in the reply of "The MG Pony", we will try to use such oils. Can you tell me about Tad thicker Oil?

Expecting reply from many others too...

[The MG Pony]

Liquefied Petroleum Gas?

Absolutely do not try this experiment until you have approval from the compressor manufacturer or find a compressor rated for LPG.

Just for starters, many compressors are refrigerant cooled meaning the refrigerant flows over the motor windings...boom!

Here's a link to Copelands AE bulletins, check out Section 17 number 17-1233.

http://www.hvacrinfo.com/ae_index.htm

How do you figure it would expload? Then why does not the flammible oil we use in the compressors expload? Or did you not realize the oil is flamible?


So far I have used about 15 Pounds worth of R-290 is Propane in various systems I have built, from R-12 compressors to R-22 compressors.

In order to have combustion you MUST have air, it ain't like TNT, it needs are and it needs at least a 400C ignition point, even then the air to fuel mix must be verry percise! No air inside the system! All so even if there where there would be far far too little to get an explosion!

You ever work with propane in a larg scale? You must work to get the stuff to go boom, if you do not have the mix perfect it just goes woof and a jiant nothing happens!!!


By all means OP Do this project, do it properly and you will have zerro issue, hell you don't really need to use thicker oil if it is only a short run! Pull the usual vac to 500Microns and such

[The MG Pony]

Thanks for the link anyway, my friend I will check out the compressor manufacturer details before trying this experiment.

As in the reply of "The MG Pony", we will try to use such oils. Can you tell me about Tad thicker Oil?

Expecting reply from many others too...

instead of using 150 sus use 300sus or other such thick minerol oil as the gas will disolve verry well into it.

All so HC's will wear heavily on some compressors, so if this is a short project do not worry about specs, if it must last or the compressor re-used then yes find the material compatibilities out.

[powell]

bimalbs,

Here are a few more links from compressor manufacturers addressing R290 LPG.

And always.....be careful.

The MG Pony: I certainly don't dispute your past sucessful experience. Your knowledge of using R290 is commendable. Adding safety procedures when advising others is crucial.


Danfoss: http://rc.danfoss.com/TechnicalInfo/literature/manuals/06/application_r290_11-2000_cn60f102.pdf

Copeland: http://www.hvacrinfo.com/cope_ae_bulletins/TAE1233.PDF

Tecumseh: http://203.196.151.124/nacg/PolicyBulletins/PB-124.pdf Only refers to R600a

Bitzer: http://www.bitzer.de/_doc/k/kt-660-2.pdf

[The MG Pony]

Safety is all ways of the utmost importance! I will never disagree. But I do disagree with all the undiserved bad press HCs get, it really is no more dangerous then the oil we use, and in a fire I frankly will feel safer with an HC refrigerant!

I can survive the flames perhaps burned, but burns you can survive, with out air how ever you can not, and most HFC refrigerants form deadly gase when burn, it is incidious and steals the air we breath and damages our longs preventing us from geting air!

So when you think of it from both aspects which would you rather be by? An HFC system in a fire or an HC system in an event of a fire? Personaly I'll choose the HC system! I like my lungs lol

Some thing to think about eh??

[The MG Pony]

Oh and the danfoss hold up excellently with R-290 Coplands I have only used a couple but, they have purred away for a long time running R-290 so albeit you'll have no warrenty they will indeed work just fine, but again for long term use a thicker oil really is a must!

[nike123]

Safety is all ways of the utmost importance! I will never disagree. But I do disagree with all the undiserved bad press HCs get, it really is no more dangerous then the oil we use, and in a fire I frankly will feel safer with an HC refrigerant!

I can survive the flames perhaps burned, but burns you can survive, with out air how ever you can not, and most HFC refrigerants form deadly gase when burn, it is incidious and steals the air we breath and damages our longs preventing us from geting air!

So when you think of it from both aspects which would you rather be by? An HFC system in a fire or an HC system in an event of a fire? Personaly I'll choose the HC system! I like my lungs lol

Some thing to think about eh??

Your lungs also don't like HC. They like 78% nitrogen and 20% oxygen mixture.
If we speak about same quantities of HFC and HC (propane, butane) in regard of suffocation danger, they are both dangerous in same conditions. Both are heavier than air.
Than, ad to that explosion danger after it is reached explosive mixture of air and HC .
We could say, people are more careful when they work with danger mater, but also, we could say peoples are prone to make mistakes and sometimes smart peoples could be really stupid. Needless to say about stupid peoples.
All said, I think that is better to work with potentialy less danger material. That also statistic confirm.

[paul_h]

bimalbs,

Here are a few more links from compressor manufacturers addressing R290 LPG.

And always.....be careful.

The MG Pony: I certainly don't dispute your past sucessful experience. Your knowledge of using R290 is commendable. Adding safety procedures when advising others is crucial.


Danfoss: http://rc.danfoss.com/TechnicalInfo/literature/manuals/06/application_r290_11-2000_cn60f102.pdf

Copeland: http://www.hvacrinfo.com/cope_ae_bulletins/TAE1233.PDF

Tecumseh: http://203.196.151.124/nacg/PolicyBulletins/PB-124.pdf Only refers to R600a

Bitzer: http://www.bitzer.de/_doc/k/kt-660-2.pdf

Like MG said, air is the problem, so leaks are bad. But otherwise there is no problem using flammable refrigerants. It depends on the construction, the likeliness of leak and the total full charge IMHO.
I know your not based in europe (and neither am I), but from what I heard through this forum, a lot of OEMs are using r600a (isobutane) as a refrigerant in their domestic refrigerators in europe. So a lot of manufacturers are obviously saying flammable refrigerants are OK. Even the tecumseh link you gave doesn't prohibit it, just says only on certain models and no more than a 150g charge.
edit: Also, what I've learnt from this forum, R22 will explode if it's compressed with enough air too

[The MG Pony]

Your lungs also don't like HC. They like 78% nitrogen and 20% oxygen mixture.
If we speak about same quantities of HFC and HC (propane, butane) in regard of suffocation danger, they are both dangerous in same conditions. Both are heavier than air.
Than, ad to that explosion danger after it is reached explosive mixture of air and HC .
We could say, people are more careful when they work with danger mater, but also, we could say peoples are prone to make mistakes and sometimes smart peoples could be really stupid. Needless to say about stupid peoples.
All said, I think that is better to work with potentialy less danger material. That also statistic confirm.

I'm more refering to the toxic decompisition products of the HFC gas.

[The MG Pony]

All refrigerants will, In Canada for stationary equipment we can use R-290, so far I am migrating more and more of my designed systems to R-290, R-600, R-1114 and such.

My next goal is designing and building a pur HC cascade ultralow system.

They truely are a marvoules gas, with verry faverable pressures, and the risk of explosion is frankly flat out bs, you'd have to have some seriously bizzar fualt to cuase one.

Here in Canada we're allowed .5 pounds per 1,000 F^3

[bimalbs]

Nice to see such an active participation from you all, friends...

Yes, as paul_h told, I'm not from Europe, I'm from India... I will most probably complete the project within 2 weeks. I will let you all know the result of my experiment...

And, to powell, thanks for the links again... I will have a look at them.

MG Pony was able to conduct a real discussion here
Thank you very much...

[The MG Pony]

My pleasure friend! I wish you luck and look forward to hearing of the project!

[bimalbs]

Hello friends, we completed the project. It was a big success

Almost all the parameters showed an improvement when tested with Hydrocarbon mix as compared with R-12...
COP increased by around 33%

Once again, THANKS to you all

[The MG Pony]

Awsome to hear, congradulations!

And thank YOU for giving us the good news!