Calling all engineers with HC handling certificate / safe handling of HC's

[Contactor]

Hi Everyone

Does anybody know if standard grey/yellow recovery cylinders are used for HC's?

I was told that this is indeed the case by someone at the Climate Centre (to my surprise).

Regards

[taz24]

Hi Everyone

Does anybody know if standard grey/yellow recovery cylinders are used for HC's?

I was told that this is indeed the case by someone at the Climate Centre (to my surprise).

Regards

............Yes..........

Why are you so worried about HC's?

They are no more dangerous than other refrigerants if used correctly.

taz.

[martinw58]

boc supply recovery cylinders for hc

[Refrigerologist]

I believe it is not illegal to vent safely to outdoors HC's. This was explained to me on a Refrigerant safe handling course. HC's have only a tiny global warming potential and were not included in the EU or Montreal protocols. Mind you the course I was taking was for CFC/HCFC/HFCS's. But 2 Guys who are have undertaken HC training, and the instructer, all confirmed this as the case. BUT be careful when recovering not to lower the HC gas to a vacuum as this would be unsafe.

[750 Valve]

BUT be careful when recovering not to lower the HC gas to a vacuum as this would be unsafe.

Is this because after disconnecting reclaim gear and air is introduced into the system (as it is in a vacuum and will draw air in once opened to atmosphere) that the HC's have a chance to reach their LFL/LEL (low flammability/explosive level)? Or is it something else?

[Argus]

I believe it is not illegal to vent safely to outdoors HC's. This was explained to me on a Refrigerant safe handling course. HC's have only a tiny global warming potential and were not included in the EU or Montreal protocols. …...

Just a quick thought on all this…. It is a greyish area.

I believe that, being in the Channel Islands, you are not directly covered by UK or EU law; however the Environment agency in the UK would beg to differ about direct venting of HCs. You are right about the low GWP index, but that’s not the issue. It’s a matter of the Hazardous Waste laws.

ALL waste refrigerants – including Ammonia, dissolved Ammonia in water and HCs are considered as Hazardous Waste and you need a licence to dispose of it. That’s UK and EU law (except, probably, the CIs which are not technically part of the EU).

HFC and the other related HCFCs / CFCs and their mixtures are explicitly named in the schedule of Hazardous Waste as refrigerants; HCs are not named in the schedule of refrigerants, but, I understand that the Environment Agency will consider waste HCs refrigerants as waste industrial solvents, and these are covered.

Discharge of HCs is not a good idea in built areas because of wind dispersal or the tendency to collect in low lying areas. Bulk flaring off is not an option unless you have the necessary equipment – the fire services take a dim view of it and will turn up in play suits with all their toys.


.

[Refrigerologist]

Just a quick thought on all this…. It is a greyish area.

I believe that, being in the Channel Islands, you are not directly covered by UK or EU law; however the Environment agency in the UK would beg to differ about direct venting of HCs. You are right about the low GWP index, but that’s not the issue. It’s a matter of the Hazardous Waste laws.

ALL waste refrigerants – including Ammonia, dissolved Ammonia in water and HCs are considered as Hazardous Waste and you need a licence to dispose of it. That’s UK and EU law (except, probably, the CIs which are not technically part of the EU).

HFC and the other related HCFCs / CFCs and their mixtures are explicitly named in the schedule of Hazardous Waste as refrigerants; HCs are not named in the schedule of refrigerants, but, I understand that the Environment Agency will consider waste HCs refrigerants as waste industrial solvents, and these are covered.

Discharge of HCs is not a good idea in built areas because of wind dispersal or the tendency to collect in low lying areas. Bulk flaring off is not an option unless you have the necessary equipment – the fire services take a dim view of it and will turn up in play suits with all their toys.


.

With regard to HC's I will bow to your knowledge of the UK's Hazardous waste laws.

A question regarding HC's was raised by our safe handling instructor. This was answered by a domestic fridgy who had just completed the HC course. Both he and the instructor stated it was OK to vent HC's safely as they were not included in the F gas law or UK law. They could well be misinformed

The only thing I really know about HC's is that when recovering the pressure should not be reduced to a vacuum, but recovery should stop at atmospheric pressure. This is for reasons of safety, obviously a combustion matter

[exbm]

Sorry hijack your thread. We don't use HC refrigerants in US because of the potential fire/explosion hazard (I guess)

Anyways, my question is if you can't recover an HCs into a vacuum how would you remove moister from a system? After you open up a system to the atmosphere it is good practice to pump the system down to 500 microns before adding refrigerant. Now, your saying that doing so is an explosion hazard with HC refrigerants?

[The MG Pony]

Sorry hijack your thread. We don't use HC refrigerants in US because of the potential fire/explosion hazard (I guess)

Anyways, my question is if you can't recover an HCs into a vacuum how would you remove moister from a system? After you open up a system to the atmosphere it is good practice to pump the system down to 500 microns before adding refrigerant. Now, your saying that doing so is an explosion hazard with HC refrigerants?

Not for the vacuum, only when your going to break the tubing for repairs, then you vacuum per normal, just have a fan keeping the ventilation up.