F Gas

[carlos1975]

Hi there , just wondered if anyone or anyones company has set up all the relevant tasks/documentation for the new f gas regulations ?? I am currently in the process of doing this for my company and wondered how many of us are doing this ???

[Brian_UK]

Have you checked with ACRIB for example ?

[gotlosi]

we are currently in the middle of setting up all the f gas regulations. we have now got our engineers in to get the new cfc safe handling. i have noticed alot of courses are still offering safe handling without the new f gas regulation meaning alot of people will need to retake the safe handling as soon as the rules are introduced officially.

[Tony]

we have now got our engineers in to get the new cfc safe handling. i have noticed alot of courses are still offering safe handling without the new f gas regulation meaning alot of people will need to retake the safe handling as soon as the rules are introduced officially.

What is this 'NEW' Safe Handling Course you are talking about?

As a CITB and City & Guilds approved centre, we have NO INFORMATION from either body about any such course.

Are you sure you are not being conned?

[Argus]

.

In the UK It is a legal requirement now and technically has been since last July, to posses either CITB or C&G 2078 to handle either HCFCs or HFCs.
If they haven't got the necessary safe handling qualifications, you can consider that they are working illegally.
Please read SI 2008 / 41, Part 3 and Schedule 1.

(I posted a note with a link on the new UK SI that came out in January 2008 just the other day.
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ad.php?t=10837 read post No: 19)

The confusion surrounds what formal qualifications are needed to perform the other tasks – service, installation etc. The commission is late in its work with this and a draft implementing regulation was adopted recently. Expect more information soon. It's likely that an amendment will be issued to the SI when they have decided what's what.

As said before, ACRIB's site has some basic information.

What you should be doing right now, and it will bring you in an income, is alerting all your customers to the requirement to leak check and putting all this in place along with the documentation and log books.

.

[Grizzly]

we are currently in the middle of setting up all the f gas regulations. we have now got our engineers in to get the new cfc safe handling. i have noticed alot of courses are still offering safe handling without the new f gas regulation meaning alot of people will need to retake the safe handling as soon as the rules are introduced officially.

What have you been doing since last july?
If you stay "tuned" to the forum. Argus (you as well Brian) is one of many knowledgeable Idividuals that keeps us all well informed.

What you should be doing right now, and it will bring you in an income, is alerting all your customers to the requirement to leak check and putting all this in place along with the documentation and log books.

Sadly ARGUS as they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. We have been doing just as you suggest also producing the relevant refrigerant useage Log Sheets for our Customers.
Sadly quite a few don't care and I can list quite a few cases were charged systems are shut down indefinately ect ect, Criminal I know but until the "Froid Police" are formed.
Who is going to police it? "We would be cutting our own noses off to spoil our face" if we reported our Customer.. Stalemate!
Meanwhile we can but try!
Grizzly

[Argus]

Grizzly, thanks for the observations.

Ever more ingenious ways to avoid compliance……..

Taking a plant out of service does not remove the operator’s obligation to provide log books, reports etc. and to carry out a leakage check.
This is required whether the system is working or not. All it has to do is to contain more than 3 kg of refrigerant, working or not.

The laws the law and that’s that.

.

[tobyprv]

whilst were on F-Gas does anybody no the law on carrying refrigerant in cars? somebody told me its now illegal.

[Brian_UK]

You really need a vented carrying space, can you secure the load and more importantly can you secure the load?

A loose 23kg bottle coming towards the back of your head in an accident is what should concentrate your mind most

[Pooh]

Brian
30 years ago the engineer that I was apprentice with hit a truck at 50 mph he did not survive as a gas bottle hit him in the back of the head. Since then I have never had a vehicle with the gas bottles or anything else heavy in the same compartment as me, and have never had an estate car.

Gotlosi
what NEW handling certificates?, if somebody is offering certificates that meet FGas then the lead body for the industry knows nothing about it and it certainly is not being offered by City & Guilds or CITB.

Ian

[tobyprv]

sorry i dont mean on the seats. i mean a small dumpy bottle in the boot. would this be classed as illegal now?

[The Viking]

sorry i dont mean on the seats. i mean a small dumpy bottle in the boot. would this be classed as illegal now?

No, not illegal (and definitely not by the F-gas regs, as these only concern the gas in use on sites, not getting transported to sites).

From BOCs website:

Anyone who carries gas cylinders in a vehicle in the course of their work has an obligation to follow basic legal safety requirements to protect themselves, members of the public and he emergency services. These have been formalised in the European Agreement Concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road – also known as ADR.

However, for the ADR regulations to come in force there is a limit of how much gas you must carry...(can't remember what it is, but it's certainly well above what we as HVACR engineers would carry)

But in the end of the day, I don't really care if it's a legal requirement. My bottles are well strapped in to protect ME (just in case I roll it)

[The Viking]

Aha, I found it!!!(Oh, I'm sad)

From UNECE's web site:

Exemptions related to the nature of the transport operation
The provisions laid down in ADR do not apply to:
(a) the carriage of dangerous goods by private individuals where the goods in question are
packaged for retail sale and are intended for their personal or domestic use or for their
leisure or sporting activities provided that measures have been taken to prevent any
leakage of contents in normal conditions of carriage. Dangerous goods in IBCs, large
packagings or tanks are not considered to be packaged for retail sale;
(b) the carriage of machinery or equipment not specified in this Annex and which happen
to contain dangerous goods in their internal or operational equipment, provided that
measures have been taken to prevent any leakage of contents in normal conditions of
carriage;
(c) the carriage undertaken by enterprises which is ancillary to their main activity, such as
deliveries to or returns from building or civil engineering sites, or in relation to
surveying, repairs and maintenance, in quantities of not more than 450 litres
per packaging and within the maximum quantities specified in 1.1.3.6. Measures shall
be taken to prevent any leakage of contents in normal conditions of carriage.

[tobyprv]

Thanks for clearing that up for me viking.