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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
back2space
before you rip it out and install a new system consider if you replace the radiators with fan coil units. These have a radiator similar to a car radiator that blows air through to heat the room up. This would be perfect for the temperature of the water flowign through. Plus you would have cooling in summer also I think.
Because a radiator doesnt move air the room temp slowly increases and if the rads havent been oversized for the rooms then this is why you cannot raise the temps.
Cheaper option is to replace the rads with fan assisted units.
I totally agree with this analysis. The fact that the system is able to maintain 55C water while the rooms are underheated tells us that the problem lies in between the rooms and the water. In other words, the radiators are unable to transfer sufficient heat from the water to the rooms.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Any heating engineer worth his salt will tell you that the rads have to be oversized.. Roughly by 30%. Fan coils where as good are noisy and high maintainance. Underfloor is ideal for heat pumps.
As for Gledhill heat banks... Good riddance to bad rubbish, I've never met a Gledhill sludge bucket that didn't leak... A nice idea but badly made..
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
daikin have the new monobloc system out....superior product in my opinion.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
hi there kesh, give me a buzz regarding the ecodan ashp, ive just installed one in my home in derry,its 2800sq ft, your welcome to come and check it out and ill give u a run through on the system, ill give u an unbeatable price on ecodan, and they need to be teamed up with correct water cylinder with specific coil sizes to work properly, my number is 07846080302 paul
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Hi Paul, I am currently doing drawings for a new house in Derry (about 2400 sft) I am looking at options for a Ecodan and as you have just installed one could you tell me the reasons why you installed this over other options and wether you used radiators or underfloor.
Thanks in advance,
Murf.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
I would say to all those considering ASHP for UK heating that they should serioulsy consider either the Hitachi Yutaki or the Sanyo CO2 Eco.
Both these units have had extensive R & D and pose the most realistic threat to traditional heating sources (boilers).
The Sanyo, in particular, is currently the only ASHP able to allow DHW storge at 65 C (using heatpump alone) at minus 20 C and has sufficient built in backup/redundancy heating in case everything turns to Rat S**T ! As it comes as a matched package, it's the one least likely to give aggro.
You get what you pay for!!
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
airconwarehouse
I would say to all those considering ASHP for UK heating that they should serioulsy consider either the Hitachi Yutaki or the Sanyo CO2 Eco.
Both these units have had extensive R & D and pose the most realistic threat to traditional heating sources (boilers).
The Sanyo, in particular, is currently the only ASHP able to allow DHW storge at 65 C (using heatpump alone) at minus 20 C and has sufficient built in backup/redundancy heating in case everything turns to Rat S**T ! As it comes as a matched package, it's the one least likely to give aggro.
You get what you pay for!!
I would be keen on seeing some data tables and specs at the different temperatures to show the heat pump output?
Can you provide a link?
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
http
:
//
eu.sanyo.com/
AssetBrowser/
Air%20Conditioning%20Docs/
Brochures/
SANYO_CO2_ECO_Heating_System_v1.pdf
Note it is 3.6 Mb. See page 11.
65degC output temp
At +7 degC air temp the COP is 3.1
At -15 degC air temp the COP is 1.8
So maybe not as efficient as HFC above zero air temp, but producing 65 water output temp must affect it.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Daikin Altherma have released a high temperature range which operates to temperatures of up to 80 degrees.
The perfect solution for UK climates which most tech's will be able to work on which is a great solution by the looks of it.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Does seem good the daikin versioN!
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brunstar
Daikin Altherma have released a high temperature range which operates to temperatures of up to 80 degrees.
The perfect solution for UK climates which most tech's will be able to work on which is a great solution by the looks of it.
I would love to know what compressor model these are using.
At a water delivery temp of 80'C, SCT must be >=~80'C, unless pulling a little more from the refrigerant superheat. Even then SCT must be at least 75'C.
Wonder what lifetime testing these folks have to back up their claims. I'd be intrigued.
:eek:
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
I'm thinking the more relevant question would be, how do they regulate/limit the heat generated by the compressor motor?
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Anything that operates above the trans-critical stage is not going to be good for COP in order to produce 65 to 80 degrees C,granted it will have its market for retro fits which will have marginal efficiency benefits against gas/oil.
We must harness the way we heat our domestic dwellings - low temperatures that the 'normal' energy cycle provides with condensing temps of 40-50 degrees C is the main way forward.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
I'm thinking the more relevant question would be, how do they regulate/limit the heat generated by the compressor motor?
Yes, agreed.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
desA
I would love to know what compressor model these are using.
At a water delivery temp of 80'C, SCT must be >=~80'C, unless pulling a little more from the refrigerant superheat. Even then SCT must be at least 75'C.
Wonder what lifetime testing these folks have to back up their claims. I'd be intrigued.
:eek:
From what little I have found online, it seems that Daikin builds their own compressors and if I am not mistaken, the Altherma uses an inverter driven model.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
^ Thanks very much, Gary. I'll follow up on their compressor range.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
I've been looking at the Daikin HT heat pump any one know what SCOP figures. I've been told likely to be around 2, which seems low. Can't get any actual performance details from Daikin, anyone got any experience?
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heatman
I've been looking at the Daikin HT heat pump any one know what SCOP figures. I've been told likely to be around 2, which seems low. Can't get any actual performance details from Daikin, anyone got any experience?
If you e mail technicalhelp@daikin.co.uk with the heading of Daikin Altherma HT information and the nature of the query they will be able to help you.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heatman
I've been looking at the Daikin HT heat pump any one know what SCOP figures. I've been told likely to be around 2, which seems low. Can't get any actual performance details from Daikin, anyone got any experience?
more likely your not able to supply them with the correct criteria in order to give you an exact SCoP...hence im guessing the figure was quoted by them as worst case scenario.(THEY HAVE SOME VERY GOOD SOFTWARE SO IT IS EASY FOR THEM)
This figure is realistic at worst case up to around 2.5.
And yes you are correct for traditional cycle its not the best, but it does use two compressors utilising R410a & R134a gas as a cascade type system to boost to 80 degrees C.
Although the COP does not on the face of it seem that good, the product is MCS approved unlike alot of those out there that arent, and dont forget the government is now going to PAY people for every kwh they use from an ASHP up to around 7p per KWH up to 23 years of the systems life (dont shoot me if its 6p!)
Hence with the £900 grant plus the above - makes it the most cost effective solution now well above boilers !
hope this helps.
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
krychek
.................. and dont forget the government is now going to PAY people for every kwh they use from an ASHP up to around 7p per KWH up to 23 years of the systems life (dont shoot me if its 6p!).........
from Krycheks profile :
Location: timbuktu !
:p
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
The high temperature units have quite a good COP compared to CO2 units. By the use of 2 compressors it does sound like a lot more energy but if you plot the compression cycle due to the cascade system the heat of compression is lower bringing the discharge pressure and temperature closer to that what a CO2 system will offer which increases the refrigeration effect making the system more efficient.(lower your head pressure and system becomes more efficient). The COP will only depend on what flow temperature you are running the system at!
Just like all of the low temperature systems out there the COP is calculated at 35 degree flow most of the time but people run the system at higher flow temperatures than required reducing the COP and wasting energy.
Daikin UK have a cash back scheme on their Daikin Altherma High temperature units and Daikin Altherma Monobloc units which is extremely attractive!!!
check this out, up to 1800 pounds cash back..
http://www.altherma.co.uk/500-cash-back/default.jsp
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
olddog
from Krycheks profile :
Location: timbuktu !
:p
lol - not a bad place to be....!!;)
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
krychek
and dont forget the government is now going to PAY people for every kwh they use from an ASHP up to around 7p per KWH up to 23 years of the systems life (dont shoot me if its 6p!)
This is mentioned in a consultation document going through Parliament at the moment.....far off being accepted, which is just as well, as the proposal is to slap a levy on all our energy bills to pay for it.
Search for the document on line....the front page is attached below
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Hi, very interesting thread this, keep it up. My ex-council house is fitted with the regulation baxi back boiler and i've been weighing up my options for a while, my understanding is that mitsi and daikin both have high temp versions, my only worry is that a cascade ashp means two compressors and more parts to fail etc, i wonder how this affects the long term return ;)
also does anyone know how much these things cost GBP ?? that's assuming i can get 'em to sell me one:D
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Hi there we have experienced the same problems could you PM me please
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
do your self a favour stay away from mitsubishi when it comes to air sourse heat pumps PM me and I will explain why
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sweeney948
do your self a favour stay away from mitsubishi when it comes to air sourse heat pumps PM me and I will explain why
Please tell us here, we'd like to know..
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Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Haden4ever
Hi, very interesting thread this, keep it up. My ex-council house is fitted with the regulation baxi back boiler and i've been weighing up my options for a while, my understanding is that mitsi and daikin both have high temp versions, my only worry is that a cascade ashp means two compressors and more parts to fail etc, i wonder how this affects the long term return ;)
also does anyone know how much these things cost GBP ?? that's assuming i can get 'em to sell me one:D
I would say that your best option would be to stick with gas for an older property onless you were planning to gut the house and fit underfloor and upgrade the insulation considerably