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Please can anyone tell me how you have to charge the R-410A refrigerant in a system from the low side as where I read always says to charge a system with R-410A with liquid not vapour, and as you know if you charge liquid into the lowside, there will be one unhappy compressor.
Thanks everyone
you must take the 410 out of the cylinder in liquid form to insure that the blend of the refrigerants that make up the 410 are kept in their original mixture.
then you must throttle your gauges to ensure that the blend vaporises before it enters the compressor.
as you have taken the 410 out of the cylinder in liquid form, when it vaporises in the hoses going to the compressor the blend will maintain its correct mix .
thats the basics of it
Thanks very much for help given. Just one more question please, when you said "you must throttle your gauges", can you kindly explain it for me. thanks again.
Hi cikku,
What he meant was, that by throttling, you control the flow so it will vaporise before reaching the compressor.
Chemi:)
Correct me if I am wrong, so by throttling the gauges means to reduce the flow so the refrigerant vaporises. Thanks again folks
a throttle is like an accelerator on a car.
On gauges its your shut off valve
You open and shut it continuosly, that is throttling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien
Not too sure about that one mate. all 400 series gasses are blends as far as i was aware. charging vapour can affect mix percentages and system performance. i saw a freezer store charged with 404 by vapour and it was just about useless. system reclaimed and charged with liquid, problem solved. however if you were to charge a full cylinder by vapour then this would not be a problem as the mix would stay the same.
Throttling valves is a good way to charge (manifold and lines start to freeze) or use charge adaptor. srw do them for about £25. Im sure that experienced engs. will not need to waste the money though.
:)
Slingblade, you mentioned a charge adaptor. can you tell me more about it. thanks
http://www.stridetool.com/tools/auto...access_01.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by cikku
quickest one i could find on the net. srw sell them but there is a log in process. dont know about dealers near you, but would guess there are some.:)
m o'b. no time right now but ill get back to you. promise xx.
Thanks slingblade for the info. Very useful accessory for charging liquid into lowside.Just ordered one from HVACtool.com. Thanks again
[QUOTE][Correct, and ASHRAE composition tolerances for R-410A are +0.5,-1.5% for R-32 and +1.5,-0.5% for R-125
(from the 50/50 wt% nominal composition) which is not deviated from when vapour charging as demonstrated by repeated ARI experimentation. As a result of R410A's low glide (near azeotropic zeotrope) it can be charged as a liquid or vapour and systems can be simply topped off after leak repairs.
/QUOTE]
whilst in effect this is true, that r410a has a negligble glide (less than .17K ) it is wideley recognised by many manufacturers of refrigerants and machinery including carrier that whilst no special charging procedure is to be applied it is reccommended that it be charged as a liquid.
http://www.carrierab.se/produktblad/R410A.PDF
i also believe that that we as a trade should be promoting good working practice among engineers no matter what their level or their guesstimate level of expertise may be.
regards to all
Whilst we're talking R410a, I hear that using conventional copper flare joints in not advisable due to the high pressures involved. Apparently, the flares or flare nuts can split over time and all that expensive R410a goes west!
What is a good way of avoiding this? The only thing I can think of is using pre-formed flare to solder fittings and brazing them on, but is there a recognised practice for use with R410a pipework?
Daddymec
In the Continent by law they have to use 2 " stek" type flare connections....
Peter knows the type
I wish they would make it mandatory here as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien
Well that certainly puts me in my place, however i thought the idea behind this website was to share opinions and work related experience so as to benifit eveyone. your comments and outright insults only seem to indicate your arrogance. having seen that you list your interests as one-upmanship and argueing without loss, i think you may even have a pesonality disorder. as i have no training in psychotherapy i enclose a link for a professional in your area maybe this will help you.
http://www.geoffcharley.com/psychotherapist.htm
It is very easy to insult people but this serves to help nobody E.G.-
you mention 500 series refrigerants. as this is not relevant to r410a, you may as well have said "i like my peanut butter sandwiches to be between 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches thick"
or
the spitting image puppets put it best when they released the single "ive never met a nice south african"
now you see these two statements serve no purpose and as such are irrelevant other than to prove the first point made.
as for charging r410a as liquid i have read many trade press articles stating that good practise is to charge liquid and not vapour, so in fact i think we are both correct.
regards
slingblade
Slingbade
Any of the refrigerants
R134a
R404A
R410 A
Charge them in liquid.........
Put in a little at a time
410 usually is weighed in anyway,
The little bit of liquid "wont hurt" the compressor
:)
You know the funny things about life?
You can get bogged down with all the technical stuff one can dream of.........
Or.........you can take a simple easy peasy way, and still get there.....
So why strife???
No strife here abe. ive been charging plant for years. it was cikku who asked and i think between us all his problem is solved:) ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slingblade
I think this is part of the 'blade' hijacking which has lead to this confusion.
However I don't remember the spitting image song but I do remember the fast show make-up lady 'nah offeense' ;-)
which is rather accurate in it's own way ..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/fastshow..._offence.shtml
cheers
richard
.
Well, sorry, idiot, but you're missing the point. Besides, none of what I have said being inconsistent with those articles I can go better than that following your line of reasoning, because it is also good practice to have a good vacuum before charging a system for the first time and since you didn't mention this my argument is more right than yours.
F*ucking P*rick![/QUOTE]
I never once mentioned charging a system for the first time, i just mentioned charging a system. of course a system vacuum to zero torr is good practise. i see no need for any argument at all, regardless of who can do the better. your use of profanity just shows your ignorance and lack of good vocabulary.
slingblade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien
If life here is so bad -heathrow is less than 40 minutes from your house...
However if you do a search on Slingblade you will find you have mixed him up with bladesling/clownblade.
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...searchid=46067
you owe him an apology for the unnecessary outburst
cheers
richard
this is a real pity and because you again dodge the issue of your mistake and are unwilling to apologise.Quote:
I don't expect any success from your appealing to his sense of guilt :)
This is not the mark of a mentally mature person -whatever the vocabulary you may wish to use to disguise it
an apology is required for your mistake. please rectify this
cheers
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRcoolingMAGIC
To be quite honest Magic............I do not use R134a
I use R49 ( or is it called R413B)
I do use R404 and 410 A
Ive read that " charge in liquid state"
Who am I to argue...........?? :) if expert opinion says this.
I am no expert...........a mere follower
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien
I now refer you to a post i made entitled "LOL just twigged it" where i made an apolgy for my assumption that you were behind the use of other usernames than marc o'brien. when my apology was accepted by yourself this was an indication on your part that you had no role in using multiple usernames. you now freely admit that you "created those other ailases". this now leads me to recind my apology and also to point out the fact you are clearly a liar. i expect no apology from yourself as to do so would be far fetched in the extreme, i.e. i would die holding my breath waiting.
li·ar ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lr)
n.
One that tells lies.
regards
slingblade
I feel that this thread is going the way a previous thread went that resulted in Prof.Sporlan and others to stop visiting the Forum.
Come on chaps - call it a truce and both walk away winners.
Lets get back to being a friendly forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRcoolingMAGIC
Magic
To be quite honest, I thought R134 could only be charged in liquid, but I know better now....
Thx for helping me on this one.
I appreciate itr
:)
That sounds like good advice to me marc. also just for your information zero torr, "zero torr?", can be found at the lower end of the scale on any torr gauge. if you have never seen one of these then please tell me and i can provide further information. i have read through your post about the fallacy of using tears as a diversionary tactic and i must say that your statement about my original reply to you addressing you in a derogative manner is unfounded and again untrue. i also suggest that this is not proper conduct for somebody in a position of responsibility I.E. site moderator. and i respectfully ask that you refrain from further childish and insulting behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by frank
Although R134a can be charged either way, if you are going to be puting a lot of gas in a system it is best to charge with liquid, as the bottle will freeze dropping the pressure and leave you standing there with a hot air gun on it.Quote:
Magic
To be quite honest, I thought R134 could only be charged in liquid, but I know better now....
Thx for helping me on this one.
I appreciate itr
Chillin:) :)