R22 replacement

I am working on a project to Replace R22 in multiple medium and low temperature evaporators in a commercial enviroment. After much research i have found that no-one seems to have any distinct answers to this quirey. :confused: The nearist i have come to a replacement is R417A, however it seems this is used mainly for a/c systems. Could this possibly be used as a sutiable replacement and if not could anyone surgest any others? I would greatly appreciate some feedback. Thank you :D

Bradley SD
BJA trainiee Refrigeration design engineer

r507, if the compressors are hermetic and have mineral oil it could be a pain to retrofit though.
Nearly every system made in the last 4 years here for med and low temp has been 404a or 507

R434a(RS45)

Looks good

http://www.refsols.com/RS-45.html

I'm looking at using R-507 as a replacement for R-22 on a similar project. It looks like it will have some issues as paul_h also mentioned, but I believe these are not insurmountable.

I would also rather use an azeotrope to eliminate the glide temperatures and fractionation issues.

Ive ran R507a through microcalc and come up with some pretty convincing performance results :D. however the power usage is a little more then i bargend for and the extra superheat (%) is double that of R22 :( (mind you depends how much you trust an anyliser), iul compare to R434a and get back to ya. cheers iceman! :)

The impact of the power might be reduced by using a slightly larger condenser. Yeah, I know it costs more initially but in the long run I suspect it will be more cost effective if you included all the time messing around with the zeotropes or other alternatives.

Keep us posted on your findings. You might find something useful for the rest of us.;)

good point, thanks, what did i do without this forum! :)

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Originally Posted by brad__34

good point, thanks, what did i do without this forum! :)

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Get more work done while you're in the office ??:)

shhhh! i dont think the techie blokes caught on yet :D, And besides its office related.... honest, *shifty eyes*

Did anyone hear of the ISCEON Range of Du Pont.
We are testing it on a small R-22 pump system now.

No oilchange, no gasket change (allthough some broke) and no change in components.

Still running after 5 week now.

i work on the supermarket refrigeration..we used R422d (mo29) to replace R22. check dupont website.

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Originally Posted by Bart Nabbe

Did anyone hear of the ISCEON Range of Du Pont.
We are testing it on a small R-22 pump system now.

No oilchange, no gasket change (allthough some broke) and no change in components.

Still running after 5 week now.

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Would you call this a worthy replacement then bart nabbe? ive looked up the Du pont range but i cant desifer between ISCEON 79,59 and 29?

Hello Brad,

We are using MO29 (R422d) for the test.
It is a test with the customer and supplier and ourselfs to look for good and easy replacements for Pumpsystems with R-22.

This becuase you only know if it works when you try it.
We want to wait untill summer (hot hahaha)to make a good (or bad) report on the test but so far so good.

Hey Bart, thanks for the feedback... Ive just had Mark Huges (sales manager for ISCEON) on the phone and hes told me all about the stuff ... case studies, tests in germany blah blah, relaible, blah, plentiful, you could say im sold...lol

thanks again
Bradley SD

drop in replacement for R22 i think is RS-44

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brad__34

I am working on a project to Replace R22 in multiple medium and low temperature evaporators in a commercial enviroment. After much research i have found that no-one seems to have any distinct answers to this quirey. :confused: The nearist i have come to a replacement is R417A, however it seems this is used mainly for a/c systems. Could this possibly be used as a sutiable replacement and if not could anyone surgest any others? I would greatly appreciate some feedback. Thank you :D

Bradley SD
BJA trainiee Refrigeration design engineer

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hi what about refrigerant name FORANE FX90
RB411B CARE 50 R1270 R290 R417A GOOD LUCK
:cool: THE ICE MAN

HI
Look at FOREANE FX90 R411B CARE 50 R1270 R290 R417A GOOD LUCK HOPR IT HELPS

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Originally Posted by US Iceman

I'm looking at using R-507 as a replacement for R-22 on a similar project. It looks like it will have some issues as paul_h also mentioned, but I believe these are not insurmountable.

I would also rather use an azeotrope to eliminate the glide temperatures and fractionation issues.

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For information on R22 replacements visit gas2010.com

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Originally Posted by puffanflash

HI
Look at FOREANE FX90 R411B CARE 50 R1270 R290 R417A GOOD LUCK HOPR IT HELPS

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Although the hydrocarbons are good refrigerants, I would not recommend them for normal public use.

We have a difficult time with using the refrigerants we have on the market without compounding the issue of flammability and other issues common to hydrocarbon refrigerants.

How about Mycoms. I have 2 FW6 Receipts with water cooled heads. My head pressure runs around 175 with the tower...At the end of the year I will need to switch refrigerants..On Mycoms what do you think about Refrigerants

:)

Look Here Friends;
There are 3 choices in this family for your consider

R417a composition is
R125, R134a, R600
46.6%, 50%, 3.4%
design for household air-con

R422d composition is
R125, R134a, R600a
65.1%, 31.5%, 3.4%
design for household air-con, refrigeration

R422a composition is
R125, R134a, R600a
85.1%, 11.5%, 3.4%
design for refrigeration, chiller

More R125 more capacity
More R134a more COP
R600 & R600a the reason why no oil change its made compatible between HFC to Mineral oil.

We will be back, friends
Mr.Blue

Hey guys
This is Rohit, do anybody have comparison of R22 and R404A system design and performance>

Pls let me know

Hi Iceman,Brad 34

Have you got some good results on your research on R434a?
If all these people on the forum are very experienced, i can't understand that R434a is not looked at more...
To me it seems one of the best replacements for R22 at this moment.
I really like to here all your expertise on this matter. Because I might be using it to retrofit a DX glycol chiller

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brad__34

I am working on a project to Replace R22 in multiple medium and low temperature evaporators in a commercial enviroment. After much research i have found that no-one seems to have any distinct answers to this quirey. :confused: The nearist i have come to a replacement is R417A, however it seems this is used mainly for a/c systems. Could this possibly be used as a sutiable replacement and if not could anyone surgest any others? I would greatly appreciate some feedback. Thank you :D

Bradley SD
BJA trainiee Refrigeration design engineer

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422d direct drop in

Dupont's MO99 does not need an oil change and it works pretty good in medium temp applications and a/c

MO29 works ok but tends to cause lots of leaks due to shrinking or drying up o rings and gaskets ..... we have learnt the hard way and it has cost us alot of money to go round swapping these things to resolve the issues

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brad__34

I am working on a project to Replace R22 in multiple medium and low temperature evaporators in a commercial enviroment. After much research i have found that no-one seems to have any distinct answers to this quirey. :confused: The nearist i have come to a replacement is R417A, however it seems this is used mainly for a/c systems. Could this possibly be used as a sutiable replacement and if not could anyone surgest any others? I would greatly appreciate some feedback. Thank you :D

Bradley SD
BJA trainiee Refrigeration design engineer

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depending on your operating conditions you could lose up to 28% capacity on low temp and roughly 20 percent on medium temperature with 417A. if you have that much excess capacity. it should work but i would be cautious with oil return using mineral oil, if you have good oil seperators and short piping runs and no receiver it should work, if not you will see oil in the receiver and must start adding POE oil to get good return. better path is to use an HFC with better capacity and switch to synthetic lube. hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by surenuff

Dupont's MO99 does not need an oil change and it works pretty good in medium temp applications and a/c

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Sure will work better than 417 from a capacity perspective, i think my comments about oil return with 417 would still hold true with this blend as well. you need to check the oil return and add poe if it is slow. DuPonts and copelands application bulletins indicate this.

Hi there
I am droping in R422D in plants until 400 kgs of refrigerant.
No problems at all.
I am very impressed about.