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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzAvSZ5Gt7I
Again I let it run it ice slab turns thick but the machine won't go into defrost mode. The new Ice thickness thermostast might be shot.
Or the reason it is not going into the defrost mode as before is because I always have a bridged ice bin thermostat this mode makes sure the compressor is on and the pump is running and is making sure it keeps making ice instead of jumping into defrost mode after a while.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Ok guys I studied the scheme nike123 send me.
Attachment 9231
I figured. I have the missing part in the pic the ice quantity thermostat bridged!
So what it means it the pump and the compressor will never ever have a chance to turn off.
This is what it was doing these two days. But I did check as you can see the machine is making clear ice but the right side of it where it gives you a bit of white ice.
The item ordered which is missing is in, i tracked it and it should be available at the post office.
I am going to check it out this week and replace it and retest the machine.
Hopefully all back to normal. Fingers crossed.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Still I am wondering.
I have an idea how the ice thickness thermostat works. But really can someone explain this?
The gas inside the capillar expands or shrink. And therefore triggers the treshold the thermostat is set on.
Say in this case between -18C/-15 C and 2 C.
I dont know but if it needs to be -15 to trigger at least can i feel it from the outside of the capillar? Or the sensor on the thermostat feels the pressure inside the capillar and certain amount of pressure amounts to the -15 C or the 2C.
Did I explain it good?
Let me know.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xbox40489
There was isolation piece. Does this piece have to be under the capillar like this:
evaporator
capillar
isolator piece
That is correct order
Quote:
If this is the problem then I will need to go and unscrew it and correct the order.
Yep!
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Turn the ice thickness thermostat counterclockwise until the end position and check if icemaker goes to ice harvest (defrost) phase. Then, after it is make few thin ice slabs, move thermostat by 5° (angle, not temperature) and wait to make new ice slab. Repeat that until you got desired thickness. Don't go thicker than 1cm.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
nike123:
you want it to go to the minus side.
I have not tried touching the dail during ice making.
But the ice bin thermostat is always on(I have this device bridged in order for the machine to run! So when the times comes to switch to defrost cycle even it will be forever bridged for now. So nothing will change untill I replace this one with a new one which is coming in soon via mail. After I replace it I allow it to switch to defrost cycle which the solenoids let waters in and the hot gas thing turns on to let the slab of ice melt to fall into the ice cutter grid. I think I concluded this after two runs. If I am wrong let me know).
So I think it might have to do with it not going into the defrost cycle?
Study your own diagram posted me nike123.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
i will give it that try nike123 and it if does not go into defrost cycle then I will wait for the bin full thermostat to come in and retry it.
If anything send the ice thickness thermostat back to the seller in the uk!
But the new one ice thickness thermostat I have a screw that is inside? Does it have to be like this?
Also can someone explain how does this thermostat work?
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
But the ice bin thermostat is always on(I have this device bridged in order for the machine to run! So when the times comes to switch to defrost cycle even it will be forever bridged for now. So nothing will change untill I replace this one with a new one which is coming in soon via mail. After I replace it I allow it to switch to defrost cycle which the solenoids let waters in and the hot gas thing turns on to let the slab of ice melt to fall into the ice cutter grid. I think I concluded this after two runs. If I am wrong let me know).
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xbox40489
i will give it that try nike123 and it if does not go into defrost cycle then I will wait for the bin full thermostat to come in and retry it.If anything send the ice thickness thermostat back to the seller in the uk!But the new one ice thickness thermostat I have a screw that is inside? Does it have to be like this?Also can someone explain how does this thermostat work?
You don't need to wait for bin thermostat to be able to troubleshoot further. Bin full thermostat does not have any impact on defrost.
When ice thickness is sufficient and ice thickness thermostat is set to corresponding evaporator temperature, thermostat must switch to OFF position and energise 3way solenoid (and fresh water valve solenoid), and start defrost process.
If it does not do that, with decent ice slab on evaporator, even at lowest thickness setting, than ice thickness thermostat is faulty or its capillary is not sensing evaporator temperature as it should.
Regarding screw, I cannot tell you for now, but today i will going to change one same thermostat, and i will let you know how it should be.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nike123
You don't need to wait for bin thermostat to be able to troubleshoot further. Bin full thermostat does not have any impact on defrost.
When ice thickness is sufficient and ice thickness thermostat is set to corresponding evaporator temperature, thermostat must switch to OFF position and energise 3way solenoid (and fresh water valve solenoid), and start defrost process.
If it does not do that, with decent ice slab on evaporator, even at lowest thickness setting, than ice thickness thermostat is faulty or its capillary is not sensing evaporator temperature as it should.
Regarding screw, I cannot tell you for now, but today i will going to change one same thermostat, and i will let you know how it should be.
I know it wont affect the ice thickness thermostat. But then again I got the damn ice quantity thermostat forever bridged!
And without it it wont run.
So I will say in order for the machine to change cycle and energise other solenoid and others you need to unbridge the ice bin thermostat in order it to work normal.
Oh you do this daily as a job? You seen my machine, it is making beautiful ice. But in a slow pace.
What is faulty are those thermostat.
I just need to have patience wait for the ice bin thermostat to come in and have it installed to troubleshoot further like you said.
But If I can understand the figure you send with the red line I drew and the black line representing the bridge:
A bridged ice bin thermostat forever powers on the compressor! Scroll to the right with your cursor to see the compressor(D1)
Check this out:
Attachment 9233
Also if the bottom green side decides to stop making ice at the ice thickness thermostat(H10). the freaking compressor will be still on with the bridge(black line up at H9) intact.
I might be wrong. I will need to reinstall a working H9 and remove the bridge(from H9) to troubleshoot some more.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Attachment 9234
I was thinking this above. Ignore the middle part. Whatever happens in the middle. Because I bridge it on the ice quantity thermostat(H9). If I unbridged the H9(triggers at a high temp treshold) the machine should turn off any ice making ability and have the circuit open. This is when the bin is full. And no ice making cycle is needed.
The same goes for in the middle the ice thickness thermostat(H10).
You are right by saying they are independant of each other.
If the H10 opens up which is when the temperature reaches a treshold of -8 C to -15C. Then in this case the defrost cycle kicks in. In which the topside(in red, H9(ice thickness thermosta), N1(pump motor) , N(fan motor) maybe also the compressor(D1) of the circuit stops and the lower side of the circuit start working. This I assume from the figure above.
Lower side consists of L10(thermostat heater), W1(water solenoid valve) and W2(gas magnetic valve). This is the defrost cycle.
Something never energises the lower part to switch to defrost cycle. Which is why you said it might be the ice thickness thermostat's fault. Taking in account that both of the stats are working indepently to turn off the machine's job.
Meaning it can turn off the machines in both cycles(ice making and the defrost cycle).
I'll have to test the machine with both stats intact to see if there is still no switching in cycle then it might be the ice thickness thermostat's fault the cycle is not changing.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
dfkhdsfkdhsf remove this post!dd
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
dfkhdsfkdhsf remove this post!
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
I tried to make a flowchart out of the processes needed in the ice making machine:
The 1 to 5 numbers are the checks for the ice bin full thermostat.
Attachment 9252
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xbox40489
Attachment 9230
One thing I noticed is that the screw on the new ice thickness thermostat is inside. Is it like this?
Yep, that is OK!
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Nah I got an e-mail from the seller on ebay in the uk.
He said one of the screw supposed to be on the inside and the other one on the outside on a ice thickness(he calls it, the evap coil stat) thermostat.
I went to my post office with a trackingcode, it has arrived but I can't have get it today. I can probably get it monday I was told. But I get a ride to the post office in town each friday. So I think next friday is when I get the parcel of the new ice quantity bin thermostat.
About the Ice thickness thermostat with it's screws. Here was the content of the mail on the positions of the scews:
Wednesday, August 15, 2012
had a look at those calibration screws, on the bin stat they are both inside, on the evap coil stat one inside and one outside.
- cateringparts
13-aug-12 14:32:10 CEST
Does one screw has to be in the inside and the other one On the outside?
Let me know this fact.
13-aug-12 11:50:42 CEST
Hello, those screws are calibration screws set at the factory so best not touching them, you need a digital contact probe and comparitor to set them up correctly.
- cateringparts
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5 Attachment(s)
Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Attachment 9266Attachment 9267Attachment 9268Attachment 9269Attachment 9270
I went to the post office this morning.
The parcel arrived.
I got pictures of the installation. I am not sure where else the capillar of the ice bin full thermostat should be tucked away.
But I used the Top Interior picture as a reference. It is someone else's icemaker.
I almost installed it as they did. Only my capillar is still not neatly tucked away in the box.
The cables seemed also pretty straight forward attached.
The black one for the bin full thermostat is facing the front panel. And the blue cable is facing the front panel. Just like the reference picture of the top interior picture.
I am giving it a test run now.
If the defrost cycle does not kick in. Then it should be replaced?
I have the dials right now on the minus(-) side for the ice thickness thermostat.
And the other one bin full thermostat I got it pointed on the sun symbol.
So fingers crossed or I need to yet replace the ice thickness thermostat because it does not go over to the defrost cycle.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Install money and nike123:
Could it be the last thing the solenoid?
Cause the thermostats are changed. Why does it not go to defrost cycle?
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
still no results, the ice is thick(i will upload video later) but the defrost cycle wont come.
Are you supposed to feel the cold at the end of the ice thickness thermostat? I mean the capillar has to be at least a bit cold on the sensor side?
I didnt check if the ice bin full shuts off when i put a piece of ice against it.
I should try that at least.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
I held a piece of ice against the bin stat thermostat and it shuts off the machine.
I take the ice off. Then within a minute it warms up and goes on again!
So that stat works.
The other one, the ice thickness thermostat I held a piece of ice on the capillar on the sensor side and the machine does not change to defrost cycle!
I think I need to exchange the ice thickness thermostat!
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
I went ahead and ordered a new ice thickness thermostat. Couldn't wait for them to reply for returns.
I will try to return the current one in the meantime.
But is it evident that the problem lies by the ice thickness thermostat?
I guess that is what changes the cycle, so it should be the ice thickness thermostat which is kaput!
Even though it works(without changing cycle to defrost cycle) with the kaput one I ordered.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
If I get the new thickness thermostat tomorrow how would be an easy way to test it out before installing it in the plate?
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
By the way I am beyond the 60 days retour policy they have at cateringparts uk. The return period is 30 days from purchase.
Bummer, anyway a new one is on it's way.
Nike123, does the treshold of the ice thickness thermostat starts at - 8 C(to -15 c)?
I think I can never do a test with a piece of ice. Cause that is less then -8 C? I might be not thinking clearly now.
A piece of ice can probably be lower then -8 C.
I was thinking to use a piece of ice to test the ice thickness thermostat right away when i have it in 2 weeks. To check if the defrost cycle will kick in.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-d9qx7cZVU
I am in this video testing the both thermostat for them to trigger. Not sure if the ice thickness thermostat was tested properly this way. But never the less a new one is ordered and coming on it's way.
I will probably test it this way before I install it under the evaporator.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
You could test ice thickness thermostat by putting its capillary in glass of water together with thermometer (K-type probe, for example) and placing that glass in freezer of your home fridge-freezer or standalone freezer. After some time it will reach temperature of -8°C to -15°C and switch OFF. You should check (with lamp connected in series) at what temperature it switches.
If that does not produce switching of thermostat contacts, or switching is outside of range of -8°C to -15°C than thermostat is faulty.
If your ice is forming in slow manner (it should form 10-15 mm thick ice in 30-40 min.) than you probably have also inefficient compressor which could not decrease evaporation temperature below -13°C, and therefore cannot trigger defrost operation.
Then you should change compressor, filter-drier and capillary tube.
Good luck!
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Splendid idea. About the test. I found out though on the new capillar I have here. It has a dent in it. On the tip of the capillar which was attached to the plate. Maybe I overscrew it when installing. Seeing copper bends in.
Does this affect the pressure in the capillar?
We do have a small fridge with a small freezer section inside. But i think it will or will hardly go to -8 so easy?
The big freezer we have outside I can use too. But i think i wont touch that one as it dont belongs to us.
The small one I have 100% access too.
But to test if it goes under -8 to try your test to trigger. I need to check for a cheap thermometer. To measure the thermometer over time.
If it is going under -8 to -15C it is worth testing it.
A new thermostat was ordered but it was send to the wrong country. So more setbacks. I need to get my money back and see if I can get a new one to ship. But in the meantime is worth testing it that way you described.
Changing the compressor is not an option. It was working fine before as I said, so I doubt that is the problem.
I even kept a timetable it made ice:
cycle (time spend)
0:49
0:51
0:55
0:53
These are the cycles so far I had when it worked. But this is in The Netherlands. Where the ambient temperature is much more colder then here in the Caribbean.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
By the way your method is to insert the glass of water and the capillar in the freezer and take it out later when u have an iced glass of water with the capillar inside and then wait for it to defrost and then see with a lamp in serie if this will shut off of turn on?
sounds doable. but then i still need a thermometer.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Small update:
I took off the red cable off the pump and put the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat back under the plate under the evaporator.
I left it running for around 38 min. No water no pump.
The ice formed from air.
I suspect the compressor cant get the plate under to it's -8 C temperature ever.
Also the pipe under the evaporator tunnel coming from outside(is this the hot gas coil)
This pipe stays neutral, this does not get cold when touched.
And does not have refrigerant in it. Because it's job is to warm up the evaporator?
Can I buy a digital thermometer and stick this under the plate of the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat. Just to see the temperature drop to -8C.
I think this is a good idea. But like I said for almost 35 min no pump on and no triggering to defrost mode.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Small update 2:
The new ice bin thermostat is at the post office.
I need to run a test after I install it and slap a thermometer next to the capillars end. To see if the triggering happens at around -8C.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
was this with the lid on? if i remember the cond coil was choked up so in turn the compressor will have been running hot so chance are it may have lost gas,if it has a schraeder charging stubb
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xbox40489
Small update:
I took off the red cable off the pump and put the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat back under the plate under the evaporator.
I left it running for around 38 min. No water no pump.
The ice formed from air.
I suspect the compressor cant get the plate under to it's -8 C temperature ever.
Also the pipe under the evaporator tunnel coming from outside(is this the hot gas coil)
This pipe stays neutral, this does not get cold when touched.
And does not have refrigerant in it. Because it's job is to warm up the evaporator?
Can I buy a digital thermometer and stick this under the plate of the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat. Just to see the temperature drop to -8C.
I think this is a good idea. But like I said for almost 35 min no pump on and no triggering to defrost mode.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Attachment 9402
Quote:
Originally Posted by
install monkey
was this with the lid on? if i remember the cond coil was choked up so in turn the compressor will have been running hot so chance are it may have lost gas,if it has a schraeder charging stubb
schraeder charging stubb
You are talking in codes here.
Well I did not get to clean the condenser coil yet.
I plan to get the part tomorrow at the post office if not it will be monday.
I consider ebaying/or go buy at the local ace store something like this:
http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho...ter_Module.jpg
http://www.asia.ru/en/ProductInfo/1155775.html
=============
Multi-Function Digital Thermometer Module
Our multi-function digital thermometer modules are used to measurethe temperature of refrigerators, fish bowls, etc.Specifications:1) Temperature range: -50oC~70oC2) Accuracy:a) ±0.1oC (10oC~50oC)b) ±0.2oC (oC and >50oC)3) Result: 0.1oC4) Display mode: LCD5) Display choice:oC oroF6) Battery: 1.5V Ag13Inner packing: boxDimensions: 77 x 61 x 18 (cm)G.W.: 32.8gOuter packing:240pcs/cartonDimensions: 36.5 x 32 x 26 (cm)N.W.: 7.8kgG.W.: 9.6kg
=============
So I can myself measure the temperature under that plate, If it is above the trigger temperature of -8C. Then I know it is the dirty coil and the other slightly on hot gas thing fault. Or that the compressor is not good enough.
But i doubt it because, last use in The Netherlands. All was working just fine. It is making ice and all. But again, we are in the tropics here and the ambience temperature in the icemaker wont allow a -8C. At least not so quickly.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
The new thermostat for the ice maker thickness arrived. I still need to replace the other one to test it.
But I would like to have a digital thermometer on the side to test out the trigger temperature.
Or I just replace it and do a test without one.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
I did a new test with the new thermostat for ice thickness.
Basicly the pump stopped pumping water after a while.
I found out the stop for the tank fell down and there was probably no water to be pumped so it went to freeze the whole thing.
But right now the pump stopped.
I dont have the water supply hose connected.
So I met the evaporator plate full of ice. white ice.
Not sure if this means the NEW ice thickness thermostat worked this time. But the pump stopped working.
But isnt the gas coil heater supposed to kick in and the defrost cycle kick in.
Not sure how to read this.
But I am letting it cool down and test it out another time probably with a water supply in.
I think the hot gas thing did not kick in.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
If the pump stopped did any thermostat tell it to stop?
Cause it is now in the defrost mode?
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Ok I left it to defrost and the pump is unblocked now. So the only thing that stops the pump is the ice thickness thermostat. It went up back to the 8 C and its free to spin.
And the compressor should be working too.
I attached back the stop of the watertank tightly this time filled the watertank with water and I am giving it another run.
I want to see it reach defrost mode....
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
The machine seems to be stuck in the icemaking mode. it wont go to harvest mode(defrost mode)!
Cause it has been making ice for 1 hr and a half.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
but the no water thing did stop the pump from spinning! so what do i have to conclude from this? i need a thermometer to know what is going on the ice thickness thermostat.
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
So the problem is mostly narrowed down to:
Anything preventing the harvest cycle to kick in, but not the ice thickness thermometer or the ice bin thermometer.
Could be the solenoid inlet valve?
Or the hot gas thing?
If I change the solenoid inlet valve i would have replaced almost the 3 items on top.
and als I can suspect my wiring?
But the machine makes thick a thick slap of ice but I can not collect it....even though it take time to do so.
Anything you guys can suggest next? Can someone check my wires for me? I think I have plenty of video and pics in this thread.
Also under the evaporator plate where the capillar is squeezed of the ice thickness thermometer the thing is like in ice! so it is cold enough.
==
It must be something that prevents the harvest cycle to come in.
Can you in a way make the harvest cycle kick in?
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Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still
Set ice thickness thermostat dial at middle position, close the lid, and if you have, put some ice in ice bin.
Then leave it like that about 1 hour and see if it works correctly.
It is very important that ice bin have some ice in it and that lid is at place since ice thickness thermostat is affected with these.
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting
Attachment 9426Attachment 9427I test it all with the lid closed for close to 2 hrs! With no ice though.
Oh you mean the fact the pump stopped working is a sign the harvest mode was active for a while?
I do not have ice. What I can do is save up a plate of ice made by the ice maker. And test it.
How much Ice do you want me to put in the bin?
Besides isnt it easier to have a thermometer to monitor the temperature of the capillar?
by the way i checked the dial on the ice thickness thermostat.
It was all the way on the plus side(+). Check the picture I uploaded on this message.
It came out of the box like that.
And put the dial arrow pointing to 6 oclock, I think you meant middle by that. Middle of + and -.
I will get some ice before I test it your way!
==
To explain to you all as well about the location of this icemaker. The ice maker is situated in a room where there supposed to be a wasmachine. It is a small room with a few windows.
On top of that I got a table model refrigerator under the ice machine which is working. Meaning it will push out hot air from its own condensor coil!!
Which makes the room even more warmer!
So I see a lot of obstacles in this room for the capillar to reach its -8 C trigger to harvest mode.
I can unplug the fridge when the icemaker is running for a test.