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Has anyone had an accident at work and made a claim against their employer ? and stayed working at that particular job. ;) Just asking because i fell off me step ladders and busted me face up :mad: . Any advice be helpful as im of work at moment regards phil
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From personal experience, see a decent lawyer. There is a reasonable time limit, but it is not indefinite.
Your claims will be dealt with by your employer's insurance company and should not jeopardise your employment prospects (I think that it would be illegal if it did).
If you were working at a second location (site, for example) you would need to involve the insurance companies of the owner of the site and any other sub contractors you were working for at the time.
A good lawyer (not necessarily one of these who advertise on the telly) will tell you if your prospects are worth pursuing or not.
It's very important that you get photos of the cause - damaged ladders etc.
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I shall offer you some guidance:Quote:
Originally Posted by philfridge
First step:
1:Inform your employer by letter about the incident and that you intend to claim for "personal injury"
Timetable starts
2: Issue a letter of claim
( I have a specimen letter of claim if you like)
3: The defendant ( be it your employer or the insurance company) have 3 months to reply and investigate
4: Defendant either accepts or disputes liabilty
If they dispute:
Issue proceedings in court, or engage in ADR ( Alternative Dispute Resolution)
Disclosure of Materials
Ensure the following:
a: has your accident been logged in the "accident book entry" ?
b: First aider report
c: surgery report
d: Foreman/ superviser
e: safety reps accident report ?
f: RIDDOR ( Reporting of injuries , Deseases and dangerous Occurences Regs) report submitted to HSE?
g: Communications between you. employer and HSE?
h: Report to DSS
i: Records of previous accidents?
J: Earnings information
I shant list ALL the other..............as your matter is quite simple...........
I shall mention one Reg though...............The Workplace ( Health and Safety and Welfare) Regs 1998 and Provision and use of work equipment regs 1998
Ok, you get the general idea............
EMPLOYMENT
Issuing a claim against your employer for " damages" suffered as a result of alleged negligence vicariously by your employer.
will not, should not jeopardise your employment status
If, you are dismissed, for a reason connected with your claim, then you can seek damages for UD in the ET
Regards
Quote:
Originally Posted by philfridge
No not personally but I did have a colleague who seriously damaged his shoulder in a work place accident.
He was working with some live cables and he was electrocuted, the current exploded his shoulder and he has been left partially disabled because of it (he is unable to lift the affected arm above his head).
He was following good working practices and was following a company method statement. He was in the process of testing the amps on a large oven and he was required to test the tree phase supply to the heaters to prove they were working correctly. He had clipped his amp probe to a cable to test and when he went to move the amp probe he was electrocuted by what turned out to be some very badly melted insulation on some of the cables.
The current went up his arm and when it met the fluids in his shoulder socket it expanded the fluid and his shoulder exploded.
The company accepted liability in full because he had followed the method statement in full and all the correct risk assessments and permits to work were complete and correct.
The lad was just plain unlucky and he got caught out.
The company accepted liability but then it got complicated because it went to the insurance company who decided to fight the case.
The lad had legal advise from his union and knew he would be in for a substantial payout but the insurance company were doing everything in their power to keep the payout as low as possible.
It dragged on for over six years and I have since left that company and lost contact with him.
The advice I would give is make sure you have as much evidence to prove that you were working correctly and safely. It will go to insurance and they will try to pass some of the blame onto you.
Cheers taz.
Here is some background info you may find useful:
SI 2005 No 735, Sch 6 contains the requirements for ladders. The Regulatory Impact Assessment that accompanied the consultative document Proposals for Work at Height Regulations CD192 RIA assumed only a 5 per cent switch from the existing levels of use of ladders to other equipment, based on industry sources and the knowledge that there is already a trend towards alternative means of access. Thus the importance of SI 2005 No 735, Sch 6 (and the wide range of guidance available) is for it to lead to users understanding the correct methods of use.
Quoting the Directive, a ladder (or step ladder) is to be used only if it is for (a) low risk work of short duration; or (b) where there are existing features on site which cannot be altered. This must be demonstrated by the risk assessment showing that more suitable work equipment is not justified. Specific requirements relating to how the chosen ladder is used are listed in paragraph 10. A secure handhold and secure support must always be available to the user. The work must be such that the user can maintain a safe handhold when carrying a load unless, in the case of a step ladder, the maintenance of a handhold is not practicable when a load is carried.
Having decided on the use of a ladder a pre-use check as required by SI 2005 No 735, Reg 13 should be carried out. Examples of pre-use check lists are available on the HSE website.
The suitability of the ground must be assessed, with particular attention to the stability of the ladder. Paragraph 5 requires that a portable ladder be prevented from slipping. It is suggested that this is achieved by securing, strapping or tying both stiles to the wall or fixed object, or by the use of an effective anti-slip or stability device. Research is ongoing into the relative effectiveness of available anti-slip and stability devices. The traditional footing of a ladder by a work colleague can be effective for short ladders and in circumstances where there is not a better solution available, but it is not a solution encouraged by the regulations. Training and supervision is required. Assessment of the ground should also check for contaminants including mud, oil and grease that would reduce the grip of footwear on the ladder rungs during use.
The limit of 9 metres vertical distance contained in SI 1996 No 1592, Sch 5 is retained. However, in the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations (SI 1992 No 3004), the ACoP to SI 2005 No 735, Reg 13 quoted a maximum height of 6 metres, with access limited to use by 'specially trained and proficient people' if the height of 6 metres is exceeded. The ACoP also implies that hoops fitted to fixed ladders are a safety feature, though investigation since 1992 of incidents, and recent research has shown the limitations of such hoops (HSE Research report RR258); this should be considered in any risk assessment where access or egress is via a fixed hooped ladder.
A third of all reported fall-from-height incidents involve ladders and stepladders. On average this accounts for 14 deaths and 1,200 major injuries to workers each year. Many of these injuries are caused by inappropriate or incorrect use of the equipment.
The HSE believes that misuse of ladders at work can be partly explained by the way they are used in the home. As with all work equipment, users need adequate information and training to be able to use ladders and stepladders safely. Adequate supervision is needed so that safe practices continue to be used.
HSE Information Sheet MISC613, the HSE guide on the Safe Use Ladders and Step Ladders, the HSE Ladders Tool Box Talk and Ladders Pocket Card, the ladders section of the Inspector Training Pack – with photos of acceptable and unacceptable use, are all examples of the practical guidance available on the HSE website as downloadable PDF files at http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/ladders/guidance.htm. The HSE states that this guidance is to 'help employers know when to use a ladder, decide how to go about selecting the right sort of ladder for the particular job, understand how to use it, know how to look after it, and how to take sensible safety precautions'.
Ladders and the Work at Height Regulations (WAHR) is an example of guidance leaflet produced jointly by the British Ladder Manufacturers Association (BLMA) in consultation with the Health and Safety Executive, The Department of Trade and Industry and British Standards Institution, available on the BLMA website.
Work at Height Regs:
SCHEDULE 6Requirements for Ladders
Regulation 8(e)
1
Every employer shall ensure that a ladder is used for work at height only if a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and—
(a) the short duration of use; or
(b) existing features on site which he cannot alter.
2
Any surface upon which a ladder rests shall be stable, firm, of sufficient strength and of suitable composition safely to support the ladder so that its rungs or steps remain horizontal, and any loading intended to be placed on it.
3
A ladder shall be so positioned as to ensure its stability during use.
4
A suspended ladder shall be attached in a secure manner and so that, with the exception of a flexible ladder, it cannot be displaced and swinging is prevented.
5
A portable ladder shall be prevented from slipping during use by—
(a) securing the stiles at or near their upper or lower ends;
(b) an effective anti-slip or other effective stability device; or
(c) any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness.
6
A ladder used for access shall be long enough to protrude sufficiently above the place of landing to which it provides access, unless other measures have been taken to ensure a firm handhold.
7
No interlocking or extension ladder shall be used unless its sections are prevented from moving relative to each other while in use.
8
A mobile ladder shall be prevented from moving before it is stepped on.
9
Where a ladder or run of ladders rises a vertical distance of 9 metres or more above its base, there shall, where reasonably practicable, be provided at suitable intervals sufficient safe landing areas or rest platforms.
10
Every ladder shall be used in such a way that—
(a) a secure handhold and secure support are always available to the user; and
(b) the user can maintain a safe handhold when carrying a load unless, in the case of a step ladder, the maintenance of a handhold is not practicable when a load is carried, and a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of a stepladder is justified because of—
(i) the low risk; and
(ii) the short duration of use.
SCHEDULE 6Requirements for Ladders
Regulation 8(e)
1
Every employer shall ensure that a ladder is used for work at height only if a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and—
(a) the short duration of use; or
(b) existing features on site which he cannot alter.
2
Any surface upon which a ladder rests shall be stable, firm, of sufficient strength and of suitable composition safely to support the ladder so that its rungs or steps remain horizontal, and any loading intended to be placed on it.
3
A ladder shall be so positioned as to ensure its stability during use.
4
A suspended ladder shall be attached in a secure manner and so that, with the exception of a flexible ladder, it cannot be displaced and swinging is prevented.
5
A portable ladder shall be prevented from slipping during use by—
(a) securing the stiles at or near their upper or lower ends;
(b) an effective anti-slip or other effective stability device; or
(c) any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness.
6
A ladder used for access shall be long enough to protrude sufficiently above the place of landing to which it provides access, unless other measures have been taken to ensure a firm handhold.
7
No interlocking or extension ladder shall be used unless its sections are prevented from moving relative to each other while in use.
8
A mobile ladder shall be prevented from moving before it is stepped on.
9
Where a ladder or run of ladders rises a vertical distance of 9 metres or more above its base, there shall, where reasonably practicable, be provided at suitable intervals sufficient safe landing areas or rest platforms.
10
Every ladder shall be used in such a way that—
(a) a secure handhold and secure support are always available to the user; and
(b) the user can maintain a safe handhold when carrying a load unless, in the case of a step ladder, the maintenance of a handhold is not practicable when a load is carried, and a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of a stepladder is justified because of—
(i) the low risk; and
(ii) the short duration of use.
13 Inspection of places of work at height
Every employer shall so far as is reasonably practicable ensure that the surface and every parapet, permanent rail or other such fall protection measure of every place of work at height are checked on each occasion before the place is used.
We as a company have had all our ladders taken off of us.
We now have a set of company and h&s approved ladders on our responce vehicle.Thats 1 set of ladders for a whole company!
Any working at height job now has to have two men present,if a ladder cannot be used we have to hire a genie lift or scaffold.
As ALL stepladders have been banned we cannot even clean a/c filters without a lot of fussing about.
I have been told that,when you are working at height on electrical systems,you now require a set of fibreglass ladders.We dont have them either.:(
Can I be the devils advocate here?
You fell of your step ladders?Quote:
i fell off me step ladders
Who should ultimately be responsible for the safe maintenance and usage of those steps?
Did your manager actually visit site and say that the site and the work to be carried out were safe for a pair of steps, or did you see what was needed and decided to get the steps from your van and carry out the job?
I know that in today's society you will have a claim, but morally?
Sorry, good luck with the recovery and healing.
Is there such a thing???Quote:
Originally Posted by Argus
:D
[QUOTE]I'm sorry, but I am sick and tired of this attitude where those who are incapable of taking care of themselves are rewarded at the cost of society.
If I fall off my ladders, and it hurts, then next time I think to myself... Hmmm I'll be more careful this time.
If I fall off my ladders and I am killed, then it is natures way of telling me that I am too stupid to be allowed to live.
[/QUOTE
Oh! and I would also cheerfully take an automatic weapon (I'll figure out how it works, no need for a six hour training course) to those Oxygen thieving ratbags in the legal profession who promote such nonsense.... Just see it as me doing my bit to reduce Carbon Dioxide emissions
And whilst we are on the subject of Carbon Dioxide.............
I found one, plus your goodself, so that makes two....Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe
:D
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Thx Argus for the vote of confidence.......
The information I posted above would have "cost" many hundreds of pounds had one consulted a "lawyer" and then again it might not have been so detailed......
Karl,
I understand your sentiments, as an example, the local councils fork out " through their indemnity insurances" millions of pounds each year to people who trip over pavements
It is cheaper to pay out a couple of hundred or a few grand then spend even more thousands defending the matter in court.
Hence,
Employers have what is called a " vicarious liability" where an accident occurs either to an employee or a third party as a result of the actions or negligence of your employee.
As an example, your employee falls off a ladder, or hurts a passerby in the act of falling off.........
Who is liable??
It is the employer, provided it was in the "course of employment"
So all employers, be on your guard, the days of simply asking an employee to use his steps, instead of a properly constructed scaffold are gone......
Dont forget the paperwork.
Paperwork, paperwork paperwork.....
Cover your tracks""
Karl
ooops sorry
I mistakingly, STUPIDLY, edited your post above, instead of Quoting!!!
I clicked on the wrong button
As a result part of your post has been deleted, as by the time I realised what I did, was too late
I apologise.............was an honest mistake by me
Please accept my apology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe
So, Abe.. I take it that you are admitting liability? My feelings have been badly hurt and I feel that I have been victimised and I have been in touch with my solicitor..... :D
Not... No probs Abe, my view is that I just wish that folk would take some responsibility... Perhaps it is a distorted perception but I seem to see more of this stuff and more people using claims lawyers as a good source of income. Perhaps I should join them, I'm sure that there would be more profit in it....
Another good reason why I shall never employ anyone.
Life in this country seems to be just a big money go round for a nation of people who no longer produce anything other than hot air and sewerage
Karl,
We seem to have a lot in common, really should try and get together at some point...
Down here many cheap arse people build 5-6m high concrete tilt slab buildings and have no safe roof access (eg no hatch on 2nd floor, or fixed ladders). There's no access to the a/c without a 7m ladder with no fixed access points, they expect you to chuck the ladder against the gutter and climb!Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe
Many stupid installers put all their a/cs on the roof, without improving access. If I ws an installer, part of the job would be providing access to the equipment that I installed, after all I have to service it!
It is one of the major reasons why i quit my last job, no safe ladders, the only ladder we owned big enough to do the job needed two guys just to raise it in place, yet I always was expected to do it alone.
My boss one said to me, "Can't I put a regular 5m ladder on the roof of my van then climb up there?".
**** I was fuming, there's a good reason for some OHS laws etc to be around. Many a time my old work got younger people to do dodgey stuff.
Most of the time with me I put up with the ladder and an aprrentice for inpections, but always insisted they hire a cherry picker or scissor lift for bigger repairs.
But in the end I'm bloody angry in the designers, builders and a/c installers putting up buildings with no safe access. It's mainly leased buildings made with tilt panels designed like this. Ie certain developers putting up buildings just to lease out, and cutting corners to build cheaply.
Most companies who built for themselves at least had a hatch or an external ladder. All buildings older than 10 years seem to have roof hatches, it's only the newer buildings that don't, so building safety seems to have worsened in recent years.
Maybe my old employers are reading, so to reiterate, it's unsafe practices that made me quit my last job. I don't want to die at work.
edit:
I fell of dogdey steps before with the same company. I was the new guy, so of course I had the worst steps. It was a dual purpose step, so had two arms to lock as a step, and you could convert it into a long straight ladder for roof access. My ladder only had one locking arm each for fuction, two arms of one side was missing, so it was always rickety and shakey
I was coming down a manhole on this ladder, it wobbled, I fell off and took a fair bit of ceiling with me, and the ladder took a fair chunk out the wall.
Of course I was angry, in the report I blamed the ****ty ladder (hoping that my companies insurance wouldn't pay out the damage to the customers house). Nothing happened and they didn't ever repair the ladder, or speak to me about it at all. I swapped it for the next best one and proabbly some younger guy got stuck with that ladder.
Their attitude was that it's broken because the employees broke it, they shouldn't have to spend money on repairing it. Same with all the extension ladders I mentioned before, most of the were broken in some way.
I didn't sue them as I just had pulled muscles, but I took a week of sick leave. The way the law works here is both employer and employee is cupable unless the employee did everything they could to minimize risk, ie if unsafe, they expect you to do eveything including walking off the job, to not speak up means you accepted the risk and are partly to blame. We also have laws that you can be held personally responsible if you leave something that could be determined unsafe for the next guy to come across, ie if the employer/customer doesn't want to pay for a proper repair so you're told to make do and someone later gets hurt because a fan gaurd isn't there, or wiring is modified.
Thanks to everyone for the replys and the helpful advice given. By the way the step ladders collapsed on one side causing me to fall down and hit the ground. Am off to see the facial surgeon monday :eek: to see whats gonna be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Viking
That's a definite, Viking...
Gents,
I really must make more effort to logon and input here. That aside, i have recently left a very large M&E contractor where i was a contracts manager, the company were H&S crazy on the surface, but how that all changed when it came to site....rules were bent, twisted and ignored as the project was not costed to allow for all the H&S needs, risk assessments and method statements were issued and signed by all engineers etc, but when one lad decided to borrow someone's podium and it collapsed all hell broke loose. He was off work for over three days, so it became reportable, the rule was every scaffold was to be built by PASMA trained engineers, tagged for use, inspected before every use, re-inspected and tagged again it it moved etc, but this just didn't happen. After the accident, a big investigation took place, lots of butt covering from the higher levels and the lad was made redundant along with myself and a few others. I fully agree that it everyone should take care of themselves, you can't hold peoples hands 24/7, but the effects of our 'claim for everything' culture is far reaching. someone has to take a fall, it you excuse the pun, and it's seldom those at the top. We all cut corners, but we must remember it's our personal welfare that's on the line, not the corporate heads. Be careful out there.
Slightly different subject, does anyone use fall arrest harnesses? if you do, apart from having a rescue plan in place, save your own skin and make sure you have a foot loop attached, so if you do fall you can stand on the loop to take the weight off the harness until you get down. if you are left hanging for more than say 3-5 mins and they get you down and lay you on the floor you will end up dead. Simple, cheap, but may save your life. It's the best working at height information i have ever had.
[quote=Karl Hofmann;107916]Quote:
I'm sorry, but I am sick and tired of this attitude where those who are incapable of taking care of themselves are rewarded at the cost of society.
If I fall off my ladders, and it hurts, then next time I think to myself... Hmmm I'll be more careful this time.
If I fall off my ladders and I am killed, then it is natures way of telling me that I am too stupid to be allowed to live.
[/QUOTE
I find your remarks rather negative but ACCIDENTS happen in life . Are you incapable of understanding this fact ! :mad:
About ten years back a freind of mine fell off his ladder on a slippery cold room floor
He was rendered unconscious and has been ill since.
All his boss wanted, was for the job to be done whatever it takes.
He was never compensated for his injuries as he did not know his rights, or have a union.
Its not about "common sense" Its about employers being responsible