Advice from the experts and old schoolers please

I am new to Ammonia Refrigeration, one year, as my previous thread stated. I can be too ambitious at times and want to take everything on at once. I love this field and want to learn as much as possible. My days can be boring sometimes and I don't feel I am learning at the pace I was hoping for. Trying to learn from the guy I work with, who is a knowledgeable person, is difficult. He doesn't actively show me how to do anything unless it fails. He hasn't even showed me the operation of our engine room. I have learned much on my own. Does anyone have some good advice as to what I should do to better my knowledge so I too can become a expert.

Keep using this site .

Hi, NH3ISFORME :)

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Originally Posted by NH3ISFORME

I am new to Ammonia Refrigeration, one year, as my previous thread stated. I can be too ambitious at times and want to take everything on at once. I love this field and want to learn as much as possible. My days can be boring sometimes and I don't feel I am learning at the pace I was hoping for. Trying to learn from the guy I work with, who is a knowledgeable person, is difficult. He doesn't actively show me how to do anything unless it fails. He hasn't even showed me the operation of our engine room. I have learned much on my own. Does anyone have some good advice as to what I should do to better my knowledge so I too can become a expert.

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All of us stared almost in the same way ... young and without too much practical knowledge... but eager to learn more ...

What I can suggest to you is to check our forums where you can find some links to some very good books ... you need to read them and with your practical experience you will learn more ... then if you have some problem revert here to discuss that with us;)

One, the most important thing ... asking for help, please, give us as much as possible info regarding your problem ... type of machine, size, pressures, temperature... etc .. otherwise we have to ask for and then the right answer is coming with delay ;)

....please, no warranty to give you the right answer right away, but some help for sure... here you'll find a lot of very nice people willing to help....

Also here is a lot to read about industrial refrigeration, believe me...





Best regards, Josip :)

When I started I was lucky enough to have the benefit of my grandfather working in the business. That helped a lot! One of the unfortunate sides of industrial refrigeration (before the internet) was due to the lack of people who could explain things well based on experience.

As time moved on fewer people I found were not willing to share knowledge. And...a lot of the books have been stripped of their information or less books have been written.

Since you are in the US you should invest in the RETA training books. These were my first contact with formal written text on industrial refrigeration.

Now that there is an internet you have sources like the RE forums and other places to look. Here, you can find some people who have spent the majority of their lives working in this business, which is rare.

It would be interesting to see how many years of experience there are between the regular posters to the industrial refrigeration forums. Some are engineers, some are technicians, some are sales people. That is a pretty good cross-section of experience and input.

Read, learn, & ask questions. That's how it works for most of us.;)

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Originally Posted by NH3ISFORME

I am new to Ammonia Refrigeration, one year, as my previous thread stated. I can be too ambitious at times and want to take everything on at once. I love this field and want to learn as much as possible. My days can be boring sometimes and I don't feel I am learning at the pace I was hoping for. Trying to learn from the guy I work with, who is a knowledgeable person, is difficult. He doesn't actively show me how to do anything unless it fails. He hasn't even showed me the operation of our engine room. I have learned much on my own. Does anyone have some good advice as to what I should do to better my knowledge so I too can become a expert.

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I know how you feel i am also very new 2 years now. I get 90% of what i have learned from here or manufacturer books. Almost everything that i was taught from the senior operators here was not true, so i started to learn on my own. Was told slide stop controlled the rpm of the motor.. didnt make sense. If you have any questions on your equipment just go by what the manufacture says.

Hi all,

I agree with all said above, we all had to start somewhere.

NH3ISFORME, are there any technical training colleges in your area that offer in house or correspondance courses? With the internet to day it is quite easy to enrol.

Give it a go, and remember knowledge is your future so don't be too proud to ask!

As Iceman says there is a pretty good cross section of people & skills with the regular posters on RE. I am sure you will get some sound advise from these guys

NHEISFORME,

I,remember during my day 1 on
industrial refrigeration when i set my foot on the door of the machine room personel there already knows that i'm new in this area,because the vessels,the pipes,the compressor were larger than i thought,because my experience then was limited only small refrigeration and aircon units.And
like yours operators and technician then doesn't share their knowledge so i have to rely on obsolote books
being a third world countries, plant schematics diagram and plant repair maintenance experience to enhance my knowledge and skills.Today in the era of internet,learning comes easy with various reference materials available and you will also learn from our senior members whose expertise are in this field.

I have always walked the machine room and roof just to learn the piping and writing down notes along the way, then when time permits break out the note pad and ask questions; watching and hanging with the other operators and asking them questions; there are many people that will share their knowledge, but there are many that will not, thinking it is job security.

I think that you are well on your way! I am assuming that when you log into this site, that you are " on your own time" What that tells me is that you love what you do! I think that is all that you need to concentrate on! If you love what you do, the rest will follow! You will seek a better understanding of how things work as you are presented with new challenges!

Your partner may play along as you become more inclined to try to solve problems yourself! My advice is that you should know your limitations and realize that you can never learn it all, but try to learn it all! Regards, Tim,

NH3ISFORME,
We all started out the same way. Patience is not something I had a lot of. Ammonia refrigeration in production facilities are the best place to get started. I started out at 18yrs old in poultry plant myself 20+ yrs ago. My dad helped me along as well but he too was limited to information. We lived in south Alabama where getting service technician to our plant was almost impossible. When we did get one of those guys in I stuck to him like glue & beat him up with questions. Books & internet were not available so I learned a lot hands on but like you said, you learn more when things break down.
It takes time & patience. My advice would be walk your system. Learn as much as you can about each valve & how it operates. All valves have different ports for pressure inside for regulators & solenoid valves. I moved on from a plant into construction where I learned more about how & why we pipe systems as they are. I learned what internals of vessels & screw packages looked like without having to stick my head in an ammonia filled hole. The terms we use is very important. The questions you ask are important but making sure we are on the same page is also important.

Learn the difference in CK2, S9, S8F, S6N, S4A, A4A valves and when using these valves why did they chose this type of valve for this application. Notice pipe, vessels, air units. I often give my new service guys test over the phone at night. I ask them the difference in valves & if an air unit is top feed or bottom.

There is a lot to learn STICK with it! The refrigeration industry has grown & is in bad need of good operators & technicians. Good Luck!

Thanks everyone, By no means would I intend to leave this industry/field. I spend most of my time travering my growing refrigeration library, visiting this forum and reading other's responses to my posts as well as others to gain knowledge, and go to work for the practical side of training. Just yesterday I started a part-time gig that may turn full time at a ice cream production plant. I know my storage and distribution plant pretty well at my full time job but this ice cream plant is crazy complicated.
I hope it goes to full time and don't even care if it's second shift that place is awesome.
:)

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Originally Posted by NH3ISFORME

By no means would I intend to leave this industry/field.
I hope it goes to full time and don't even care if it's second shift that place is awesome.
:)

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Best shift, of course, if a lot of girls are working in ice cream factory;):o

anyhow, good luck

Best regards, Josip :)

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Originally Posted by Josip

Best shift, of course, if a lot of girls are working in ice cream factory.

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Now Josip, is that any way to talk someone into enjoying the refrigeration business?:rolleyes:

I thought a person should enjoy the challenges the work offered. Not the potential sights one may occasionally be blessed with.:eek:

Questions, questions, ask a lot of questions. Your trainer may not be the best communicator. But ask him something relevent to what he knows as basic stuff and you will probably get an out pouring of info., absorb everything.
Next trick is touch everything and feel the systems, temps vibration any thing gives you knowledge.
Hell I started by fixing domestic fridges a hundred years ago, principal is the same, just the components get bigger and smellier with ammonia.
magoo

Good advice Magoo, touch & feel everything. Get use to the vibration, noise & temps of everything. In newer systems today operators have gotten lazy with computer control systems. Sitting back in a control room watching a monitor will NOT help you learn refrigeration. One day you will walk by a peace of equipment & notice it sounds or feels different. Further investigation you will find there is a problem. If it looks, feels, sounds or smells bad its either an ammonia problem or ex wife problem
:rolleyes:

Hi, US Iceman :)

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Originally Posted by US Iceman

Now Josip, is that any way to talk someone into enjoying the refrigeration business?:rolleyes:

I thought a person should enjoy the challenges the work offered. Not the potential sights one may occasionally be blessed with.:eek:

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assume that as a warning what can happen occasionally ...... otherwise fully agree with you ;) ...

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Originally Posted by US Iceman

Since you are in the US you should invest in the RETA training books. These were my first contact with formal written text on industrial refrigeration.

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I'll second that - they are an excellent primer on the basics. They also offer some online training but I think you can get the best bang for your buck by just buying the RETA 1 & 2 books.

Is your system large enough to require PSM? If so, you *should* be able to learn everything about it from your P&IDs, SOPs and Process Safety Information.

I have reta books 1+2 on industrial refrigeration 4 on psm and 2 books on electrical theory. I have reviewed the psm, p+id's, and sop's. I have the book knowledge just lack the practical experience and oportunities to exersize my knowledge.

Books are good for princiles and application. You can not go past experience and hands on stuff, the little things that happen with systems, that are not in books. The feel, the noises, the temp changes. Computers are great for logging trends etc,,. Get out there get into the system operation, feel it, live it.
magoo

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Originally Posted by magoo

You can not go past experience and hands on stuff, the little things that happen with systems, that are not in books. The feel, the noises, the temp changes.

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The best troubleshooting equipment you have is your eyes, ears, and nose. The experience comes from using them to understand what the noises, smells, and visual clues provide.

Hi, beg, steal or borrow - do anything that you can to get hold of a book called principles of refrigeration by R J Dossat, its like the bible for fridge engineers. It covers the theory and practicals of refrigeration very, very well. You'll want for nothing. Remember, knowledge is power. Go to college (if you are not already). Ask experienced refrigeration personnel to spare you time so you can learn from them. Most people will be flattered that you have asked for help/assistance. I remember when I first started working for Star, one of the engineers, Chris Watson used to draw ph charts in chalk for me on the concrete floor in Star Derby's workshop - he ended up teaching refrigeration in a Birmingham college - clever guy who loved passing his knowledge on to anyone who needed it. Anyway, try and obtain a broad spread of knowledge from various people, it's the best way. Good luck, something tells me that you will do well in this industry...

Take my advise.. 16years of time on the job and ill tell you something no one will.. Find a contractor that deals with the industry that you want to deal with or stay with the place your at for 5 years then find a contractor. Get your epa cert for r22 use and keep reading EVERYTHING you can get your hands on! Dont let the big headed premaddona s tell you anything different that you cant make it or you aint cut out for it cause all they do is think for themselfs and they panic when new ambitious blood rolls in. That old guy at the plant is a wealth of knowledge that a price tag cant describe.. Buy him a cup of coffee and tell him to explain the whole system even if you know it. Keep asking questions. Think 3x before you do anything even if its old hat. Let me repeat one important thing.. Read EVERYTHING you get your hands on.

There are a lot of resources out there.
You note that you are in the US
Let me know where in the US, and I can hook you up with a local chapter of Engineers and Technicians association.

I am in Massachusetts, not much out here. PA is the closested.

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Originally Posted by US Iceman

The best troubleshooting equipment you have is your eyes, ears, and nose. The experience comes from using them to understand what the noises, smells, and visual clues provide.

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And your hands not to forget USIceman

The advice about Roy Dossats book is sound I read it about twenty years ago ,lent my copy to a chap from Sri lanka and it never came back!!lol. I have my weekly sniff of NH3. Great Industry,have been doing this for about 30 years Prestcold etc,work for OEM in Shropshire.