Citroen C5 air con needs recharging

I was going to get into the air con business a few years back, but went in a different direction, but my air con in my car has stopped working after 6 years of never being serviced and 180,000 miles of driving !, I am guessing that it is simply low on pressure and needs a flush and new oil and refrigerant.

I was going to get the equipment to do it myself, but after working out that the cheapest i can get all the kit for was £250, and kwik fit offering a £45 air con service, does anyone know what their service is like ?, or would i do better to go to a independant specialist ?, I am in Warminster in Wiltshire

Thanks

Either would do the job for you. Just ensure that a pressure test is included to ensure that they are not putting new gas into a leaking system.

Thanks for replying, I will make sure a leak test is done beforehand,

Do you think a nitrogen flush is worth having too ?, or is that only really using when comissioning a new system ?

It will be done when the pressure test is performed by the OFN being released.

Sound advice from Brian_uk - just make sure they do leak test , otherwise you could be paying again in a very short period of time. My advice is check what warranty they give so if they do leave a leak you can get them to fix it at their cost not yours.

thanks, i will pop down there at the weekend and let you know how it goes at kwik fit

Just thought i would say i got my air con recharged and leak checked, it had almost no refrigerant in it at all, so they nitrogen purged it, leak checked it just by looking at the gauges with 200psi nitrogen in them to see if the pressure dropped, then filled the system up with R417a, and i have to say it has worked better than ever since then !

Thanks for the advice!

R417a???? Are you sure?

Kwik fit nitrogen purged it??? and pressure tested it with Nitrogen??

Thats what the bod behind the desk told me after showing me his certificate of training on refrigeration of some sort (it was on the wall in a frame)

Should they not have used nitrogen then ?

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Originally Posted by Mosser

Thats what the bod behind the desk told me after showing me his certificate of training on refrigeration of some sort (it was on the wall in a frame)

Should they not have used nitrogen then ?

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The correct refrigerant for your car is R134a..

Cant see the point of purging with Nitrogen... You did mention having it flushed, this is quite an involved operation, normally carried out after a compressor burn out.. Nitrogen is the correct means of leak checking.. Last info I got was that Thick Fit applied a vacuum to the car and monitored it over a short period of time, if the vacuum held within preset tolerances, then it is deemed to be leak tight... Fortunately their equipment is smarter than their operators ;)

Hmm, sounds like he didnt know what he was talking about then !,

They have a viewing window that you can look through, and all they appeared to do was to connect up 3 hoses under the bonnet, fiddle with the machine the hoses connected into for about 5 minutes whilst looking up things in the manual, then they just left it for about an hour, possible a bit longer, then they disconnected the hoses and i got the car back after they had showed me a digital thermometer showing 6 degrees c

Standard Thick Fit blow and go :D

200psi seems a bit high for pressure testing cars, i was taught 120psi max on the car course i went on due to the shaft seal on the compressor.
I have also heard of the evaporator bursting when testing around 200psi.

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Originally Posted by monkey spanners

200psi seems a bit high for pressure testing cars, i was taught 120psi max on the car course i went on due to the shaft seal on the compressor.
I have also heard of the evaporator bursting when testing around 200psi.

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The max I take them to is 150psi.. The compressor will take more but the evaporators can fail.. Auto Air Gloucester recently sent out an email to all of it's customers highlighting over presurising with OFN, it included photos from a car in which the evaporator had gone off with a bit of a bang.. Made a right mess of the dash :rolleyes:

A useful piece of information for car aircond is to run them every 4 to 6 weeks to keep the shaft seal lubricated.
It will slow down the refrigerant loss.

taz.

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Originally Posted by taz24

A useful piece of information for car aircond is to run them every 4 to 6 weeks to keep the shaft seal lubricated.
It will slow down the refrigerant loss.

taz.

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Most modern systems can be left on all year round, Variable displacement compressors will use virtually no extra fuel until they need to do some cooling, but the will still be running... Clutchless compressors run at 3% output even when switched off

"You did mention having it flushed, this is quite an involved operation, normally carried out after a compressor burn out.."

LOL. jesus karl, you and i know a tin pot 12v mag. clutch belt driven pot is impossible to burn out as it has no windings.
respect to kwik crap for their fantastic three tube diagnostic machine, they will do me out of a job one day.

suggest original poster tries halfrauds as the new advert on uk gold will guarantee 20% colder or your money back. i might take a -80 cascade unit in just to see the look on their faces.

respect as allways
drunkblade.

You are a pedantic sod tonight Sling... Compressor burn out is the shortest printable term that I can think of for a ****ed compressor...

Halfrauds and Thick Fit will make us money in the end.. Gonna have to go and see these units that they are using, last time I saw one it measured leaks by the loss of vacuum.. I guess they have a Nitrogen pressure test gismo built in now...

Karl,

There was a picture of a vauxhall corsa in the free magazine from an auto factors showing the front bumper missing, the condensor and radiator looking like they had been in a shreader, various bit dangling on cables and i think the wings had been bowed out a bit.
The story was that a garage had taken the car to another garage for wok to be done on the ac system. On the drive back the system exploded with such force that the bumper took off faster than the car despite the fact that it was being driven.

The theory is that the system had a mix of air and R134a froming an explosive mixture.....

Jon

Gee that must have been a hell of a bang... A condenser is good for 500psi though I have blown the bottoms out of several Mondeo condensers where they corrode at the steel bracket... Also almost brained myself trying to remove the drier pack plug on a ford Galaxy with a little Nitrogen..:eek:

Seen plenty of pressure switches bypassed and there are lots of diy sealers to bung things up on the market, so that could be a lethal concoction too..

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Originally Posted by Karl Hofmann

You are a pedantic sod tonight Sling... Compressor burn out is the shortest printable term that I can think of for a ****ed compressor...

Halfrauds and Thick Fit will make us money in the end.. Gonna have to go and see these units that they are using, last time I saw one it measured leaks by the loss of vacuum.. I guess they have a Nitrogen pressure test gismo built in now...

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Sorry pal, oops, i was i bit pissed when i typed that. i know you know that i know you know we both know our respective stuff. nuff said.

sling:D

I've had some automotive AC failures (3 I think) and all 3 were either a failure at a hose where it swaged to a fitting (2 of them), or the fitting itself where a large aluminum coupling nut jumped off the thread.

I've been out of AC for a while, but I never heard of a catastrophic evap or condenser failure. Probably because all the other cheap parts failed first.

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Originally Posted by Karl Hofmann

Most modern systems can be left on all year round, Variable displacement compressors will use virtually no extra fuel until they need to do some cooling, but the will still be running... Clutchless compressors run at 3% output even when switched off

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Karl
You are obviously well up to speed with the latest on vehicle a/c.
Please could you tell me are these V.D.Compressors
you mention very common?
As they sound like a very good idea to me.
I must admit that I also have always told friends and family to regularly rotate the s/seal to keep it wet!
Is there anything else you could add about the fuel consumption of these units.....
Very interesting stuff indeed!!!
Cheers Steve.

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Originally Posted by Grizzly

Karl
You are obviously well up to speed with the latest on vehicle a/c.
Please could you tell me are these V.D.Compressors
you mention very common?
As they sound like a very good idea to me.
I must admit that I also have always told friends and family to regularly rotate the s/seal to keep it wet!
Is there anything else you could add about the fuel consumption of these units.....
Very interesting stuff indeed!!!
Cheers Steve.

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Steve, I packed in car aircon about 3 years ago but still have a small but steady stream of regular customers who bring me stuff that is a bit to tricky for the others..

The variable displacement compressor is a very common unit to use and you will see them on Peugeots, VAG cars Beemers.. virtually every European car from 1996.. BMW used denso SBU16C compressors.. or variations of... virtually everyone else used Sanden SD7V16s or variations of.. Except for Vauxhall-GM who had their own Harrison/ Delphi V5.. All of these had clutches to control on and off but once engaged would not cycle on and off.. I suppose this is where the domestic ac guys got the idea for Inverter systems and VRFs.. Perhaps not

As far as I know, all VAG, BMW and some Toyotas use the Clutchless compressors, the variable displacement is controled not just by the suction pressure as in the older models but by a 12 volt solenoid valve which replaced the non electric displacement control valve.. how they work beats the hell out of me. In order to protect the drive belt if the compressor locks up, there is a shear clutch to allow the drive belt to keep running even when the compressor is goosed... They are good because they do keep the system lubed because they still move refrigerant and lube round the system even when off and they do save the motorist cash because they do only what they need and also give a far more even cooling effect but they can be fragile and the clutches can fail for no apparent reason which does require a new compressor...

Sling.... No probs as long as you buy for me next time:D

My C5 had a recgarge, the Citroen garage injected a dye at the same time to trace any leaks that may have been in the system, The aircon worked fine , but after a service and cambelt change, the aircon stopped working, they traced a leak as after testing the system all the gas was found to have leaked out, they then tried to fix the leak ,they said it was an o ring which they fixed but after again recharing the system, another leak was found, they now say the system is corroded and that it will cost a futher £450 to replace parts, I asked them why they didn't pressure test before recharging, they said that that was not possible.

It is possible and it is a far better way of finding a leak than UV dye, which to a motor mechanic is the the only way of finding a leak because they can charge you for it on top of the recharge. The trouble with using Nitrogen to pressurise and search for leaks is that it may take five minutes to do or it could take all morning and that is very difficult to quote for when the customer wants to know up front how much it will cost. Perhaps there is a H&S issue with letting their guys pressurise a customers car air con too. A good car ac specialist would be a better bet to do the work. What part have they said needs replacing?
Personally speaking I wouldn't trust a mechanic from a main dealer to walk my dog

The Aircon on my C5 has also stopped working. I.m not sure if its a recharging problem tho because I can't get the fans to work on manual either. Any ideas ?

Mac Duncan

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Originally Posted by MacDuncan

The Aircon on my C5 has also stopped working. I.m not sure if its a recharging problem tho because I can't get the fans to work on manual either. Any ideas ?

Mac Duncan

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Check the fuses to see if there is an electrical problem.

Thanks for reply. Do you know where the fuses for the air con are?

Mac

Sorry No, the handbook should detail which, what and where the fuses area.

Ok thanks - but no handbook.

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Originally Posted by MacDuncan

Ok thanks - but no handbook.

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Well, that's one plan gone out of the window :o

Found a guy in Redditch reckons he can fix it - taking it thursday - thanks for your help:)

Good luck and hopefully a good result. :)