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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
r.bartlett
so if I understand you correctly the temperature rises inside the cabinet for an unknown time depending upon how long the system takes to get on top of the product load?
if not please explain in better terms for me to understand
but if so please explain the difference between your solution and raising the set point from -18 to -3 with a 20 dollar stat to simulate the same effect but with greater control of the target products final temperature which was one of the posters critical wants
Sorry about that. I don't mean to use the heater to raise the temperature in the freezer. The heater can be used to reduce the cooling capacity of the freezer, thus increasing freezing time. The poster states that he wishes for a slow freeze. I understand that a $20 stat would give you control of the requested temps, but as he stated:
Also even if the lab freezer stays at high temperatures, this doesn't determine the rate of freezing right? For example if you set it to -4c, this is the FINAL equilibrium temp it will reach. As for how fast(rate) of freezing this is dependant on the cooler capacity and load am I correct? Guys this is why I asked all the questions so I can become clear about what is required. I may be wrong but I am guessing controlling the temp alone will not necessarily cause slow freezing.
I just wished to add my .02c. I'm not saying that my idea is a great one and there are far better solutions, just thinking that a chronically ill guy who spends his time at home and who knows very little about refrigeration could try this idea out.
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
I was about to say, if you can keep the temp difference between the chicken and the freezer low enough, you could slow freeze (or try to)
but it's all pretty irreverent when no mater how slow he freezes it, it's not going to do what he wants anyway :(
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Fast freezing causes a uniform lattice type ice structure, expansion still occurs and may rupture the cell wall (a bit like a pipe freezing) Slow freezing cause the ice to build somewhat like a snow flake with many edges and points, with penetrates the cell wall in many places.
on defrosting the cell wall become weaker/mis-shaped. The more tears the greater the deterioration.
Unless you freeze dry, removing the internal cell moisture, which seems to make the cell wall more rigid.
it is the deterioration of the cell walls that make frozen food mushy, compared to fresh.
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
let some gas out soyou dont let it get below -5 plus without the full gas charge it would take a long time to get to temp
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjsinoz
let some gas out soyou dont let it get below -5 plus without the full gas charge it would take a long time to get to temp
that is incredibly irresponsible and illegal, any refrigerant is to be recovered and handled properly! if that was don back in the R-12 days it wouldn't be banned as it is now. now days you still have idiots venting the stuff guaranteeing that ozone hole stays big n healthy!
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The MG Pony
that is incredibly irresponsible and illegal, any refrigerant is to be recovered and handled properly! if that was don back in the R-12 days it wouldn't be banned as it is now. now days you still have idiots venting the stuff guaranteeing that ozone hole stays big n healthy!
hey idiot i dont know how small ur reclaim unit is but mine would cycle off on lp if i tryed to recover the 200 grams in a small chest freezer so a few seconds of letting the gas go is the same as purging your gauge line 20 times, do u do that or are u so worried about the enviroment u just let air enter the system
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
oh yeah all the ideas of buying this and installing that also are causing the hole to get bigger by adding a car on the road to get the parts and the manufacture to make more parts only to find out it doesnt work anyways just let 50grams out and ull be right
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
I have a standered proper recovery unit, and it does a great job on 16 grams or less, it is not hard at all to properly recover a charge. not hard to make them either to code if you don't one small enough make it!!
As for gauges? I use quality ones with anti-blow back valves, no air in system.
I guess this is the difference between a skilled tech and a non skilled one? One buys the tools and uses them in a way that achieves his goal, rather then finding excuses and cop outs to not do there duties diligently?
and all your excuses still comes down to it is illegal, and I'd report you in an instant had I have more info on you.
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjsinoz
hey idiot
There is no need to take that kind of tone.
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The MG Pony
I have a standered proper recovery unit, and it does a great job on 16 grams or less, it is not hard at all to properly recover a charge. not hard to make them either to code if you don't one small enough make it!!
As for gauges? I use quality ones with anti-blow back valves, no air in system.
I guess this is the difference between a skilled tech and a non skilled one? One buys the tools and uses them in a way that achieves his goal, rather then finding excuses and cop outs to not do there duties diligently?
and all your excuses still comes down to it is illegal, and I'd report you in an instant had I have more info on you.
of course you would u sound like a snitch, as for the correct tools i have a cps Recovery Unit which does 10.4 Kg/Hr Vapour its 1 HP and Oil Less cost $3000 AU
thats 174gram a minute so thats 43.5 grams every 25 seconds now considering i would purge the unit due to the large supermarket racks i work on either have co2/r134a or r404a in them, (i would assume the chest freezer has r12 in it maybe r134a) a complete purge of the recovery unit would be required anyways, its internal volume capacity would be about 30-50grams so lets say i lose 15 grams to a purge to ensure no cross contaimination occurs i am fairly confident the unit will cycle off on LP pretty quickly as my compressors efficiency (which does get checked regularly) is correct.
perhaps you should check the piece of crap unit you have and see if its still pumping correctly, unless of course you work on household fridges and only need a slow recovery unit.or of course u dont know how to check it.
as for my gauges i have digital fieldpiece gauges type SMAN4 Digital Manifold 4-Valve which cost $700 AU i also have anti-blow back valves or inline ball valves on mine but due to the ever changing world we live in i am constantly working on different systems with different refrigerants.ie the charge has to come out if there isnt a unit with that gas located near by. then u must purge the line.
maybe you work on one type of unit with the same gas all the time but i am constantly being sent to different systems to service and repair them no install work just breakdowns.
if you think you are so skilled go to this forum and lets here your answer
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...PROVE-ME-WRONG
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjsinoz
let some gas out soyou dont let it get below -5 plus without the full gas charge it would take a long time to get to temp
An absolte no no
Less refrigerant bigger compression ratio very high suction superheat
Lending to a very high discharge temp oil breakdown and comp failure
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
yes yes yes
its a little dome compressor who spends it life running in a vacuum with no real heat rejection, ie condensor is in insulation of freezer walls or pushed hard up against a wall in a kitchen,the oil breakdown happens after 1 year of running anyways it will keep on kicking along
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjsinoz
yes yes yes
its a little dome compressor who spends it life running in a vacuum with no real heat rejection, ie condensor is in insulation of freezer walls or pushed hard up against a wall in a kitchen,the oil breakdown happens after 1 year of running anyways it will keep on kicking along
The actual design working pressure is irrelevent by remo inv the refrigerant you increase compression ration
And more of concern is suction superheat increase so your option is totally wrong
Sorry young man
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
The actual design working pressure is irrelevent by remo inv the refrigerant you increase compression ration
And more of concern is suction superheat increase so your option is totally wrong
Sorry young man
so why is my chest freezer which holds my beer still running at -2 after a year than old man
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
So to hold your beer at -2 you let the refrigerant out or it just a freezer running at high temp
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
(to store excess beer, was having a party)
my option on the 40C day was to buy ice and an esky, buy a new fridge from somewhere,put it in the freezer hope my freezer didnt freeze the beer, drink it hot, or as my pissed sparky/electrical mate said cant u just let some gas out of the freezer.
so its a high temping freezer which sometimes freezes my beer, but i do love a cold beer so its all good.
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
I am not to sorry to say you have a very poor ethic and attitude to word your chosen career in my not humble opinion.
I do not need to prove any thing, there are various theories of how why and what.
I do multigas systems and so I built a small simple recovery system out of little can compressors just for the small jobs, if your claims are true you surely have the skill to easily make one that will hold up to the codes to do r-134a, R-152a and even R-22 one unit for each, the parts to make a nice compact unit literaly lay out in the street some times! old window aircons give you a lovely prefabricated platform to work with!
So again stope making excuses and cop outs and do your job properly!
that is what seperates us from a parts monkey, we know how to work around a problem well following the rules and regulations!
which are you?
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The MG Pony
I am not to sorry to say you have a very poor ethic and attitude to word your chosen career in my not humble opinion.
I do not need to prove any thing, there are various theories of how why and what.
I do multigas systems and so I built a small simple recovery system out of little can compressors just for the small jobs, if your claims are true you surely have the skill to easily make one that will hold up to the codes to do r-134a, R-152a and even R-22 one unit for each, the parts to make a nice compact unit literaly lay out in the street some times! old window aircons give you a lovely prefabricated platform to work with!
So again stope making excuses and cop outs and do your job properly!
that is what seperates us from a parts monkey, we know how to work around a problem well following the rules and regulations!
which are you?
i have a ""oil less" recovery unit, "big Pony" it does all types of refrigerants. plus i work a bare minimum 80hours a week every week, so i dont have time nor the space to carry around 3 different units.thats why i have no probs spending $3000 on a good all round recovery system. which is law here in oz.
i dont even carry enough parts with me to be considered a parts monkey, for that matter.
as for the rules the EPA or arctick governs the trade in oz this is a extract of there rules
please notice number 2 and 4
"Permitted Releases
As is the case for CFC and HCFC refrigerants, only four types of releases of HFCs and PFCs are permitted under the prohibition:
"De minimis" quantities of refrigerant released in the course of making good faith attempts to recapture and recycle or safely dispose of refrigerant.
2.Refrigerants emitted in the course of normal operation of air-conditioning and refrigeration equipment such as from mechanical purging and leaks.
Releases of HFCs and PFCs that are not used as refrigerants (note that heat transfer fluids are considered refrigerants).
4. Small releases of refrigerant that result from purging hoses or from connecting or disconnecting hoses to charge or service appliances.
so as long as i purged my lines while working on the chest freezer and then removed and reattached my gauges a few times in an hour im not breaking any law im just following the rules.
by chance i lose 50grams and the chest freezer sits at -5 or so its all good RIGHT.
and as for the units u make are you taking oil samples to ensure no moisture is present in the compressors, u are finding on the side of the road.
as we would not want acid formation to occur in the recovery unit itself let alone contaminate the recovered refrigerant then place it back in a system, as over here in oz that is illegal and IF I HAD MORE INFO ON YOU I WOULD REPORT U IN A MINUTE. LOL (ah i love our back and fourths)
perhaps thats what seperates good techs to ones like ur self. ie dont be a tight ass and buy the correct tools AND dont make them from scrap you find on the side of a road.
IF anything i should be asking you are u a parts monkey when it comes to maintaining correctly operating tools.
i bet your gauges are over 10 years old too. arent they "big pony"
So for the first time,stop making excuses and cop outs spend some cash and do your job properly!
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
we all should strive to lose as little as possible, here in Canada they have the same thing!
bty who said you need to carry them with you? refrigeration is my hobby AND my work, I live it I breath it.
my three stay at home 99% of the time as I rarely bother with small domestic, but a friend in need, or I want parts to play with I can just grab the unit I'll need, now I got gas and parts to play with! here it is 1k for a bottle of recovered R22 (Reprocessed rather)
I got a lovely little oil less unit, and it does a lovely little job, but by using some custom built units I can keep my losses down to the half ounce!
A replaceable core filter drier, a temprite 340 oil sep, a suction line hx and a nice little bar freezer can and you can have a very good little dedicated recovery unit that is pretty light and effective, add some anti-blow back fittings and now you can recover with near 0 loss.
Hope fully others here will see the advantage of the described systems when working on small domestic systems
And no I replace the oil, and ironically yes I do have a 3 stage tester for refrigerant, so go ahead report me, only inconvenience would be to show them my records and offer them a coffee! nice thing when you follow proper protocol and procedure! keeps life simple, just like all ways telling a situation as it is, mean what you say and say what you mean.
So nice attempt but a big fail, as I have both new equipment and custom built equipment with new parts, and old guages yup, they are very good old simple guages built to last, re-calibrated last year, guess you didn't know guages can be tested and calibrated though?
your reminding of the guys in bc, they buy nice big brand new 4*4's and not one of them know how to use it! shiny new tools only offer to make a good techs job easier, they do not make some one a good tech, just a well equiped one ;)
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
ah big pony your alright, and really calibrate gauges, ive turned that little flat head screw, so my needle reads zero, haha.
wait was that a trick question????
na i kid i assume you had the pressure display plate reattached or maybe a new link wire to the sector, or do u mean u simply adjusted that screw for the first time. god i hope not or Canada is in some trouble.
you know u remind me of the bloke who taught me. so strict,so by the book, no matter what the situation.
he was old too.... i guess it must be a generation thing.
just for the record i too live and breathe refrigeration i left my house @ 0430 this morning and just got home at 2200 and then went straight to this site.
you see the problem with u old blokes is you under estimate us young blokes, experience doesnt always beat intelligence.
oh yeah im probaly not going to build that unit out of ACRYLIC im just going to buy some wireless temp sensors and install them into an existing system. that way i can get actual temp readings of vapour in a receiver. in a real system.
and i havent forgot to respond to your statement in my forum dont worry im working on something i will provide a youtube link in the coming days, if only the other blokes at the company i work for fixed the units the first time they attended instead of me going back a day or two later i would have had it up earlier.
talk to u soon big pony....
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjsinoz
ah big pony your alright, and really calibrate gauges, ive turned that little flat head screw, so my needle reads zero, haha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjsinoz
wait was that a trick question????
na i kid i assume you had the pressure display plate reattached or maybe a new link wire to the sector, or do u mean u simply adjusted that screw for the first time. god i hope not or Canada is in some trouble.
you know u remind me of the bloke who taught me. so strict,so by the book, no matter what the situation.
he was old too.... i guess it must be a generation thing.
just for the record i too live and breathe refrigeration i left my house @ 0430 this morning and just got home at 2200 and then went straight to this site.
you see the problem with u old blokes is you under estimate us young blokes, experience doesnt always beat intelligence.
oh yeah im probaly not going to build that unit out of ACRYLIC im just going to buy some wireless temp sensors and install them into an existing system. that way i can get actual temp readings of vapour in a receiver. in a real system.
and i havent forgot to respond to your statement in my forum dont worry im working on something i will provide a youtube link in the coming days, if only the other blokes at the company i work for fixed the units the first time they attended instead of me going back a day or two later i would have had it up earlier.
talk to u soon big pony....
The problem with the internet is that sometimes when a poster writes what he believes is a witty response he can over as a complete prick.
Others here may suggest DT Lacia was of that ilk. He was/is actually quite misunderstood. Not that he couldn't be a prick sometimes as he sure could but generally he was/is an ok guy. If most met him they would probably say the same.
I can only hope for your sake you are of a similar stance(although if you are you probably don’t care for the same reasons as he).
Your arrogance may seem appealing and indeed clever to you but like Lacia's "I'zzz mour cleverer than youse" approach did little to endear him to those he was trying to impress with his substantial knowledge. I fear some may pigeon hole you the same.(again you may not care for the same reasons as he)
FYI His approach to imparting information wasn’t to assist the learner which most ‘normal’ people do for altruistic benefit , rather to belittle those less knowledgeable. To impress on the student, the teacher was –even if only in his own mind- somehow superior because he knew something the student didn’t . It’s a character flaw which sadly is unlikely to change – A Leonard can’t change is spots as they say
Anyway I had planned to keep away from you (as I avoid all Lacia's posts) as I find it all the showboating rather tiresome
I shall leave you to grandstand your response. Good luck btw.
(oh just in case anyone hasn't noticed matey boy has long gone from his thread)
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
(oh just in case anyone hasn't noticed matey boy has long gone from his thread)
yeah cause he probably let some gas out of his fridge.....LOL
and dont you worry i am a prick, but every apprentice ive ever had, all tell me, im the best tradesman to work with,
I never talk down to a young bloke who wants to learn and never put **** on them cause they dont know something.
but hey we are all men here "no students" and if a man cant cop someone saying his wrong, well that man sort of sounds like a woman to me.
in saying that.....
maybe you should ask this Lacia out for a drink or romantic dinner as it sort of sounds like u just wanted to post a little story about him......
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Re: How to make freezer slow freeze poultry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
knighty
I was about to say, if you can keep the temp difference between the chicken and the freezer low enough, you could slow freeze (or try to)
but it's all pretty irreverent when no mater how slow he freezes it, it's not going to do what he wants anyway :(
Why would it not do what I want? Ice crystals expand when the chicken is between range -2.2c to -4c. -2.2c is the initial freezing point. If the chicken spends a few hours here it won't be enough however if it spends several hours to a day then im guessing It would work. What makes you say It wouldn't work?
Thanks