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Carrier A/C were always using alternative refrigerants for airconditioning applications...eg R500 in a 5h40 water cooled compressor set at standard A/C duty. This set has been converted to R409B yes 409B which is no longer available....
Any ideas what is being used to get similar capacities and one that does not need a conversion...?
I could use R12 drop-in but i reckon i will lose some 20% capcity
This may help you: http://tuttco.home.mindspring.com/icor.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by eskimo2
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimo2
But isn't that an illegal refrigerant?
You're right, CFCs are illegal.
I think he meant a non Chlorinated alternative to CFCs used as a drop-in replacement.
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buy volcano vaporizer
[. This set has been converted to R409B yes 409B which is no longer available....
Why is 409 no longer available down there then, does Aus have different rules to the rest of us. It's readily available in the UK
Regards
Fatboy
R 409B is a ternary blend of 3 HCFCs. It is restricted in the EU under article 5 of Regulation 2037/2000 (the ODS REgulations).
You can still use it as a replaceent (subject to the phase-out rules), but don't expect any discounts on HCFCs. I expect the price of all HCFCs and thier blends will go through the roof.
My opinion is that anyone converting to these (in the UK) will need their head reading.
Evidently Australia has different rules for chlorinated gasses and blends.
..... no doubt some of our friends down under will tell us what the state of play is with them.
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buy vapormatic
Coolie, drop in refrigerants in place of r12, r500 etc etc are not yet banned down-under. not like r12 r500 etc etc which are
As for 409b i dont know why it isnt available but i suspect that it is due to demand or should I say lack of it!
409a for example is readily available.
mp66 another drop in for r500 and is at the moment still available but the australian importer is only selling about 1 tonne per year...so it wont be too long before it wont be available also. I reckon its time to do heatload on building and see if we can have enough capacity using r134a. I know we will drop about 20% and it would normally be unlikely that the system was designed with this much extra capacity...BUT! the building was origianlly designed as a forensic building with heaps of fume cupboards and lots of extra fresh air and is now utilised as standard office accomadation...so we might just have the required capacity in the compressors and fan coil unit. Only a heat load survey will tell
If you use R-134, will you be able to git the mineral oil out of the old system.? Poly oil is required for the R-134a. Believe that I would check with Carrier. They might recommend an alternative. Hope this helps.
John, Yes I know ...what a pain trying to get all the mineral oil out! but if i go that way it must be done....several oil changes should get rid of it...I hope!!!!!
Carrier wont help....they just ignore you down here in South Australia...have asked the state service department and australia tech support.......when it comes to engineered machinery they dont want to know you!
Bit confused as to which refrigerants you are actually refering to, R409A is a drop in replacement for R12 and would use mineral oil. Unable to find anything on R409B. There is however two drop in replacements for R502 / R500 in R402A and R402B, both are R22 blends. These are BOC gases and have lost out to R408A which is sometimes added to R402a/R402B as a reduced cost option.
Look at your presure temp chart and you'll see that the 402 range is not suitable
:cool: R 409b must have gone west here in the last few years. When the replacments for 12 fist started i used quite a bit of it although it was called FX 57. almost the same temps as R409A. If its no longer avail. here in aus. it would only be lack of demand there no legislations against its use.
what about isceon 49 thats a drop in for R12.
RS24 drops in for R12 and is ok with mineral. It is a zeotrope (blend) and does have glide (components boils at slightly different temps), so must be charged as a liquid. Although, it is possible to charge as a vapour using a Quick Charger thingy attached to the cylinder. Works out about two and a half times the cost of R134A in the UK, no idea about availability of legality in other countries.