Carrier 551 problems

Hey guys,

I am on a ship just getting back from a New York to Singapore run, I have a Carrier Elite 551-510 scroll Unit sitting out on the deck that appears to be demonically possessed, First there is the alarm code 6 key pad failure, I know already that there is some kind of problem with the key pads in the new Carriers, We have been notified of that, But I started getting alarm code 8, High pressure ratio and then eventually we started getting alarm code 28 low suction shut down,

We have gone completely through this van and can find nothing to solve the problem, We have defrosted multiple times, changed the TXV, Removed the piston from the SMV, changed the compressor, Evacuated at 29" changed drier several times, gone through the solenoid valves , I do not have the current version of soft ware available so we have not done a reconfiguration, But the unit still has low suction even in emergency bypass operation, suct pressure cycles between 7" and 15 ", Discharge between 100 and 140 depending on the ambient temp,The unit does have the proper configuration for a scroll, version 5346 if memory serves me right, I checked the soft ware just to make sure that perhaps the unit may not have accidentally been configured for a reciprocating compressor

I have a friend of mine that is on a ship over on the west coast and got an E-mail from him that all his 551 vans are doing the same thing, He is running around doing manual defrosts trying to keep the things running,

I know that there is something wrong with these new vans, My last trip I had a -15* box reset itself to 32*, I was making my round and what caught my eye was that the display had switched, The set point was in the right display and the actual temp was in left display and the van was running in heat mode, This was also my first experience with the keypad failure, I changed the Ml3 controller and was filling out my report when I noticed on the manifest that this box was supposed to be at - 15 thus explaining the van running in heat mode,

I noted this in my report and received a reply that it was not possible for the controller to reset due to a key pad failure, About a week ago I received an alert from the company that we need to keep a close eye on these vans because other ships have reported that the controllers are resetting themselves so I guess it is most certainly possible after all :)

Any shore side guys that have any info as to what is what with these new Carriers it would be greatly appreciated if you would share it with us mushrooms because nobody really seems to want to tell us any thing except that Carrier is working on the Key pad problem,

We will be on the coast for a few more days so I will have internet access until we head back overseas,


Deu58

Quote:

---

suct pressure cycles between 7" and 15 "

---

Was this pressure reading taken with gauges or unit read out ?

Haven't had the chance to touch one myself but I have heard of one 551 unit with low pressure faults and I guess they found some missed wired low pressure transducers.

I know it sounds crazy, but I guess it's possible.

Hi Will,

Thanks for the response, I am using gauges, Some body before me had problems with this critter to, Every where I went I found that some one had already been including the expansion valve, I changed it out only because we received a message from the office to do so, Somebody had already done it because they left a rag wrapped around the TXV and it was obvious that the brazing was a field job and not the smooth factory finish, And if they went so far as to do a TXV job I am sure that I just changed out a new compressor also :),They also changed out the low pressure sensor, The connections are wrapped in electrical tape,

This van has two 7.5 amp control circuits, F3a and F3b, F3a seems to have all the solenoid valves and pressure transducers on it, I found a factory installed jumper from KA2 to KB9 on the Ml3 controller disconnected, I reconnected it and immediately blew the F3a fuse, I checked all the solenoids and transducers and all seemed well and good but I can not reconnect that jumper with out blowing a fuse, And I only have a couple of these fuses left,

I am limited in what I can do here because this is a ship, Very limited in spare parts and tools and very hard to get resupplied, They are supposed to send some shore side techs to look at it here in New York but so far nobody has shown up and I really do not expect them to show, Shore side support on this coast has been really bad,

This is my first time working on a scroll unit, Never had problems with one before, I was told via message from the home office that to check the compressor close the suction valve and see if it will pull a 20" vacuum then disable the condenser fan and see if it will go up to 300 psi, Does this sound right to what you guys ashore are doing? I did that several days ago and according to that test all was good at least with the compressor,

But ambient temperature has dropped considerably and the van is in emergency bypass so I do not know if the compressor has suffered any damage in the past few days, it is a 0F box and I can only get 15F, This van is scheduled to be discharged in Norfolk which is still a week away,
Deu58

Hi mate,
you sat the unit is blowing the 3A fuse you need to check the soleniods again,they all should have a reading of approx 7.2 ohms.the low suction .I suggest if you are starting to run out of spares,take fuses from empty reefers.

Oh man, sounds like you really opened a can of worms. I hate going into a unit that somebody has played with. I really, really hate seeing tape on a electrical connection on a shipping container. They should be shot.

I don't understand how it's even running with that jumper removed. Then I remembered you said your in emergency mode. You've got the manual ? ain't much on the downhill side of F3a.

What kind of temp spread do you have between ret and sup ?

A superheat reading will tell you how that TXV is doing.

How 'bout a laptop and cable ?, one could download 'events' and see what alarms came before you. It might have a clue in it.

Hi Will and Kiwi,

Problem is I have no empties to steal from :), Anyway shore side finally showed up and they are taking the van off the ship right now, I wish we had the lap top/interrogator , Shore side has that stuff but they do not provide the ship side with that kind of stuff, Can not blame them either, Sad to say there are a lot of problems with theft on the ships, Things just mysteriously disappear, Case in point, First trip I had a Carrier 489 series van go bad on me, I changed the controller out and there were no soft ware cards to reprogram the new controller, All the soft ware cards were missing,

This is my third time on this ship, I know for a fact that we used to have the software onboard,

Any way the shore side techs think it is the expansion valve, They believe that I may have used to much heat installing the new one and there is a very good possibility that may be true, This van is designed to be accessed from the rear panels inside the van, I had to come in through the Evap access panel on the front of the van, Plus I do not have a B tank set up, Had to use a oxy acetylene back pack set up while hanging off a ladder on a rolling deck, As to the superheat that is really something on this van, Coming in through the front you can not see the thermal bulb at all, You have to open a small access panel in the inner side wall of the Evap fan compartment, Then it is located below and under the Evap header and wrapped in a foam blanket that fastens with Velcro, You can barely get your hand down there and you can not see anything, All by feel

Basically the entire design of this van makes it a bear to service aboard ship, The SMV has been moved to behind the Microprocessor cabinet , You have to remove the fan blade from the condenser fan and then unbolt the cabinet and slide it over just to get to the SMV, There used to be a test connection that you could check the pressure between the SMV and the Evaporator but they removed that option, There used to be a front panel that accessed the defrost elements, They eliminated that so now we can not change a defrost heater should it burn out,

According to the manual if a defrost element burns out just disconnect it, That might work ashore but once I leave Norfolk I will have 18 days before I reach my next port, Dubai, So 7 days into the crossing I lose my defrost elements and then what because I can not change them, Heat Gun through the upper Evap fan panels for the next 11 days :)

Any way thanks to all for the helpful advice,

Deu58

Well, the disease is spreading. I found two new Carrier scroll 'Primeline' units in our service area.

Both units have low pressure faults.

Oh Carrier, what have you done now. ! :eek:

Hi will

What ever it is Carrier is not talking about it, Apparently these new elites are not very elite,:o

The techs in New York that came and got the one I was having problems with asked if I had checked both Evap fans to see if they were running,

They told me that they were having problems with the evap fan behind the fresh air vent, The vents do not seal well, the fan ices up and pop goes the motor,

The thing is when the evap motor goes pop, so does the Ml3 controller, Just wipes it out and no body knows why,

They asked me that because of the jumper/fuse blowing problem,

They said the blown fuse and disconnected jumper usually means the board is gone,

Our Chief has been trying to get an update about what the heck happened to that van but chances are we will never hear anything more about it,

I am pretty nervous though, At about 3 pm today we leave Norfolk headed for Dubai and have a bunch of those vans sitting on the deck right now:confused:

I am really looking forward to our next time in New York, End of the line for me and I will be going home for a few months, Hopefully they will have all this resolved before I come back out!!

See you guys in about 50 more days:D

deu58

Hi to all, I am a Carrier Field Service Engineer based in Oceania. It is obvious to me that you guys are operating with a shortage of spares, knowledge and resources about Carrier units. May I suggest that you go to the Carrier Website and look under Literature for service manuals. Also we operate a 24 hour global help line which you could call if you are stuck.
800-668-6283
May I suggest you get familiar with code 41 as a means of fault finding all the solenoids and valves on the Eliteline. If you can take advantage of the Carrier Training offered globally to get yourselves up to speed.
Kind Regards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paul Gray

Hi to all, I am a Carrier Field Service Engineer based in Oceania. It is obvious to me that you guys are operating with a shortage of spares, knowledge and resources about Carrier units. May I suggest that you go to the Carrier Website and look under Literature for service manuals. Also we operate a 24 hour global help line which you could call if you are stuck.
800-668-6283
May I suggest you get familiar with code 41 as a means of fault finding all the solenoids and valves on the Eliteline. If you can take advantage of the Carrier Training offered globally to get yourselves up to speed.
Kind Regards

---

Hmmmmm....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paul Gray

Hi to all, I am a Carrier Field Service Engineer based in Oceania.

---

Hi Paul,

Hope you come back around and see this, Curious if you have any info on the key pad problem?

As to code 41 I did use that but there is some wierdness in the ML3 controllers that simply makes me not really trust them, Such as showing alarms codes that do not exist for the that particular machine,

We never did get any info on what the actual problem really was and you are correct at least in my case about the lack of knowledge for that machine, That was my first scroll unit problem,

And the lack of spares, I will not even go into that!:confused:

deu58

Hi guy,
The keypad may under warranty campaign.
Please see attachment

Teguh