Hi :)
if you are interested in magnetic bearings and oil free compressors, this would be the one for you :D www.turbocor.com
See what you this and let us know.
Kind Regards. Andy :)
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Hi :)
if you are interested in magnetic bearings and oil free compressors, this would be the one for you :D www.turbocor.com
See what you this and let us know.
Kind Regards. Andy :)
They are already on 'some' French/British Navy ships. Mike
Hi Guy,s
The turbocor compressor was designed here in Australia and is built in Canada as the aussie govenment would not give us a grant to manufacture it here.
The compressor is a two stage centrif, totally oil free with full mag bearings traveling on vsd drive up to 30,000rpm. they are solid state start at 2amp up to full current, cop at full load is around 3.5 but at 50% load the cop is 9 which is where real time engineering comes into play, most plants have two units sized at 66% of the total duty one run one standbye and the second chiller comes on line in the warmer weather or with increased demand for cooling which is normally only 10% of the year, the rest of the year one unit is running around 30%-60% load so the turbocor offers a far better power saving with a cop of 6 -9 at the part loads respectivley. the cost of a chiller is around 10% more expensive than a standard chiller but the power saving far outwieght the initial extra cost.
The compressors are only one third of the size and weight of a standard compressor of the same duty that is semi hermetic of course. the noise level is 75db @ 1m about the same as your carpet vac.
This is the technology of tomorrow guy,s.
Have a Nice day.
True, But now it is a 50/50 joint venture to be named Danfoss Turbocor. ;)
Chemi :)
We spent some timer looking at these compressors for use with industrial process cooling. Process cooling runs flat out all year round; generally the compressors do not run unloaded. Currently we use the Bitzer screws and compared them to Turborcor.
Turbocor originally said it's compressors ran more efficiently than the Bitzer screws. Our information showed that the numbers were the same to the forth signiicant digit. Turbocor changed their attitude only after we showed them the numbers. There were no energy savings. Further our local codes meant that there were no installation savings. Both promised by Turbocor.
Their prices for new compressor matched the Bitzer screws when we compared similar sizes but Turbocor offered only one size that was sped up or slowed down to match other capacities. A real price difference showed when we compared replacement costs. It was cheaper to scrap the Turborcor and replace it with a Bitzer.
I understand, but don't know for sure, that their sales staff came from Trane. They certainly behave like it. They have got a good idea but their sales staff needs to learn that they are selling just another compressor not the only one.
Brian
2 AMP start conditions is always possible with any compressor if you use a VFD.Quote:
Originally Posted by TONY LONGTHORNE
COP of 3..... OK... but at which conditions?
These machines are not proven technogies compared to pistons, screws, centrifugals,..., therefore... wait and see.
Let others try them first and we will all learn from it.
And also,... you can't change nature laws so I'm always very sceptic when someone comes with THE solution. The only thing you can do in any cooling system is trying to come as close as possible to an ideal Carnot process.
They have a powerpoint presentation there think this is the link
http://www.turbocor.com/literature/p...esentation.ppt
Hello,
I have started up our first unit with Turbocor compressor well it seams to work fine. Next week will we start up the second unit.
Make one small enough for a reclaim unit, if it can handle liquid would solve alot of downtime on jobs :) .
I've seen the ppt presentation of turbocor and still not really convinced of this technology efficiency . Lots of good words , but no real technical documentation , are they selling the product to home users ?????????????????????????????
Man see the simple simple simple ppt presentation of the product , just look to the control of bearings , does that seem simple ? All those electronic systems are simple ?Quote:
Originally Posted by MRcoolingMAGIC
Maybe mechanicly it's simple although i don't find much difference between it and conventional compressors , but surely not the control part.
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Thanks Andy for your information!
Trong Bach
looking for informatiom on a new air bearing chiller made in denmark,the information i have is little,(just made in denmark,no name or m#)
I have 2 turbocor chillers but i have a lot`s of problem with the software :it is so complicate to levitate the screw and i have a lot of alarms , every 2 days same alarm.
This is not new technology as far as I am aware, just developed and adapted. In the scientists labs they use vacume pumps which spin at 80,000 rev/min. These and air bearings have been around for more than 25 years. Getting the oil out of refrigeration systems is the innovation. Who would want to work around one of those ear piercing noisy screw chillers? One other thing anyone can fudge the figures to make a particular product look good, take for example system COP and chiller COP - big differance
does any body know which gases these will work with all i can see is r134a
cheers
I have also seen one working on R22 as a replacement for a recip on a york air cooled chiller - not sure how reliabe or how long it will last
I think that compressor doesn't care what gas it is compressing if that gas is not aggressive to used materials in compressors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla
It is certain that R22 is almost inert gas.
A COP of 3 that's low,most chillers have a better part load COP than that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_1
i think u ment the shaft.Quote:
Originally Posted by texanul
this is a centrifugal 2 stage compressor:(
the new units are great
no problems
Most of the problems with Turbocor compressors are caused by
incorrect software settings, either in the compressor and or
pid controller, when commissioning you must have the required
training and software.
They are a great compressor..
Having worked for Star who are pushing these units, seen alot of problems and spoke to a few engineers who are of the opinion. They don't like light loads and the software is a mare! So unless you have money to throw at call outs and modifications stay clear. I made alot of money with call outs to these units!!!!!:D
Out of warranty parts are very expensive, if commissioning is
carried out correctly, I have found most faulty components show
up in the first 6 months (covered under warranty)
Low loads used to be a problem but that is easily overcome
by using a well designed chiller (ie Powerpax)
Keep Cool
Turbocor TT300 run R134a
TT 400 R22
would Turbocor be able to work with C02 and compress it?
I think turbocor is not able to work with CO2
CO2 condensing pressure is very high.
i think the tip speed of the turbocor at the rotary speed is not enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siddharthnaidu
Hi :Quote:
Originally Posted by siddharthnaidu
the answer is no !
turbocor is a centrifugal based compressor,not built for these pressures!
i hope they develope one !:D
I am very interested of the prices, how many times it is compared with screw compressors
Hi the only real good comparment is at part load, where turbocor is extremly efficient,at full load the screw actully has a better cop!!!
does york and mcqury magnetic bearing centrifigul compressors OEM by turboCor?
Not so...Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkellyb
ALL turbocor units run on R134a only.
NO, Turbocor units - as mentioned by bigsk and goshen - cannot cope with those pressures also it only works with a low pressure differential between discharge/suction of 2.5:1Quote:
Originally Posted by siddharthnaidu
So unless turbocor do some radical redesign the will remain for R134a only.
Though you could use a turbocor on R134a with a cascade condenser to condense CO2 for pump circulated applications
Some magnetic-bearing suppliers for large gas centri. compressors, it's a matured technique. Optimized compression ratio is around 2.5/stage (3 max.) so Turbucor is only suitable to R135a and chiller application. Anyone know who made refrigeration centri. compressors with higher ratio for NH3, CO2, HCFC in MT and LT or cascade application. Taking away oil (and its problem) from refri. system is an interesting wish.
dvtruc, magnetic bearings may be a mature technology but mostly they operate from large external control cabinets.
The turbocor unit is self contained in a unit that is smaller and lighter than the drive motor for a normal compressor. This is what really sells them for me.
I maintain dozens of them, so I have seen a few problems - mostly down to plant operating conditions, passing check valves etc.
In close to 5 years of working with them I've replaced 2 units under warranty, both were easily lifted off the chiller by 2 men and the replacement unit lifted into position with no need for lifting gear. Not at all bad for a compressor with built in 87KW drive motor ;)
Depend on motor power, magnetic bearing control is built-in or not. You can find at Synchrony a 400 kW motor with it built in.
The best feature of the the Turbocor compressor is it has allowed a centrifugal to operate on air cooled applications with flooded evapourators, without all the hassle of oil return. Yes a screw can match efficincies at high condensing pressures & high load, but most chillers run part loaded most of the year. Also screws require minimum discharge pressures for oil supply or you have to fit external oil pump.
Here's a drawing + Manuals
https://rapidshare.com/files/3921270...ssor_Instl.pdf
https://rapidshare.com/files/3732897...ram_manual.pdf
https://rapidshare.com/files/1321117...-8_ISSUE_C.dwg
https://rapidshare.com/files/1152647...or_Service.pdf
(The dwg. is the drawing & opens with microsoft visio or similar programme)