Daikin going to pot?

Is it just me or is there service and support levels going to ****?

Stock leverls are piss poor, delivery times are crap. And to top it off they seem to have had an influx of new guys into there tech support team who dont know there arse from there elbow?

It used to be the case that in return for selling a load of there gear you would get free/discounted courses to allow you to become even more proficent in there equiptment, but apparently they have stoped this as well?

On top of all this i hear there in the process of raiseing the limmits of the D1 scheme - Kick in the balls for the little guys!

So..... Hows the Mitsi gear looking lately?

Or is it just the case that they are stretched like all of us at the moment.
BRING ON THE HEATWAVE.
You may have some good points there Greg.
But have you ever thought the "The more you fit the more you may learn"
Meaning as your experience grows so does your ability to ask deeper and harder questions.
After all the techo's can only answer those problems that they have ever experienced!
Or am I being to kind?
Grizzly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grizzly

Or is it just the case that they are stretched like all of us at the moment.
BRING ON THE HEATWAVE.
You may have some good points there Greg.
But have you ever thought the "The more you fit the more you may learn"
Meaning as your experience grows so does your ability to ask deeper and harder questions.
After all the techo's can only answer those problems that they have ever experienced!
Or am I being to kind?
Grizzly

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Give you an example,

Over the last year have been installing quite a few watercooled VRV's. Went to commision the latest one last week and started takeing model and serial numbers, then noticed that the trim charge table was a little different to previous and it seemd to surgest that the OD unit required an extra charge regardless of liquid lenghts. Thought it a bit odd so decided to call in and get a doubble check on it. Well Long story short 6 different daikin techs couldnt agree on it, phoned the Rep as we were getting a bit tired. He said that there was abserloutely no reason to add anything ther then liquid line, so i add my charge and crack on.... 10mins later Daikin techs on the phone telling us we DO need to add for the unit as they have had to phone the factory in brussels as none of them knew!

That aside i crack on.....

Then i go to do a recording with the service checker only to find that the latest VRV's need a different version of the SC software to be controled.... Asked why the rep didnt mention this when we went to make the order and apparently it wasnt avaliable at the time they sold us the unit? So they sold a unit WITHOUT the SC program being avaliable to beck it up.... Great!

I can now understand where you are coming from!
Grizzly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grizzly

I can now understand where you are coming from!
Grizzly

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Phew, i was begining to think i was expecting too much from them....

Is it just me or is there service and support levels going to ****?

Depends who it is you are referring to. There are alternatives.


Stock leverls are piss poor, delivery times are crap. And to top it off they seem to have had an influx of new guys into there tech support team who dont know there arse from there elbow?

Probably, Or it could be that you are a bad payer.

It used to be the case that in return for selling a load of there gear you would get free/discounted courses to allow you to become even more proficent in there equiptment, but apparently they have stoped this as well?

So if the courses are not for free then you would gladly install the systems blindly. I think you just gave us all an insight to your company ethos.

On top of all this i hear there in the process of raiseing the limmits of the D1 scheme - Kick in the balls for the little guys!

D1 dealers are no better then any other dealers, certainly not anymore technically advanced. Just means you spent 40K with them. I thank you for proving my point.

So..... Hows the Mitsi gear looking lately?

Hopefully a little less technically advanced so you can understand it.


Then i go to do a recording with the service checker only to find that the latest VRV's need a different version of the SC software to be controled.... Asked why the rep didnt mention this when we went to make the order and apparently it wasnt avaliable at the time they sold us the unit? So they sold a unit WITHOUT the SC program being avaliable to beck it up.... Great!

Now if you were somewhat switched on, you would know that there is no reason for you to call anyone to get your update to the service checker software. You would know to click the help menu within the SC software and follow the link to the website with the username and password provided.

Sorry to be so crass, but I come across this kind of “please do everything for me” attitude all to often.

Obi Wan.

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Originally Posted by Obi Wan

Sorry to be so crass, but I come across this kind of “please do everything for me” attitude all to often.

Obi Wan.

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Understand you point and also see how i came accross, unfortunately on that day it was the straw that broke the cammels back.

Although i suspect you may have picked up on my bad day and im sure some of your comments are ment to antagonise me? Meh, if thats how you get your kicks then kick away.

We had a 10kW RZQS set delivered to site; the same model as the one delivered to the site last year and, well, the condenser is a 2-fan jobbie, now. The last-year one just has the single fan. The big boy caused quite a scare on site regarding space available and lifting it. I checked the plate and double-checked it to see if the same model number (no, it was not an RZQ they delivered).

Same model, but bigger. And their current pdfs don't show it as a twin-fan, either. Bit scary, that.

And, they didn't deliver on the day, either, even with 4days leadtime. Somehow they forgot to put it on the lorry that morning (or night before) and we were kicking around trying to find something to do with ourselves while they flapped a special delivery for 2:30pm. It arrived just in time before the lads started packing up for the day.

Silly things that can really mess up the site work (and add costs). Not what you'd expect from an established company like Daikin in the top league.

Oh, and when you ring up "Daikin" regarding a delivery, it isn't Daikin on the phone. "Press 1 for this and 2 for that," and you wind up talking to a very separate delivery company that say "Daikin" but they are not Daikin; Daikin have outsourced the task to this other company and their staff don't pick up the phone until after 9:00am.

It probably makes sense to outsource deliveries, but the lines are not fully smoothed out yet (well, not in my case anyway)

As for free training, I think they should do a bit of that. eg, when you buy some systems you get a training voucher, and when you have enough vouchers for the course(s) you want you can cash them in. (Bit like Green Shield Stamps :-)

That way, they train the ones installing their kit, so they get better installs (less warranty issues, less breakdowns outside warranty, and thus a better reputation - it all spins money back to Daikin). Rather than just giving free courses to the theory types who do not then buy the systems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Makeit go Right

As for free training, I think they should do a bit of that. eg, when you buy some systems you get a training voucher, and when you have enough vouchers for the course(s) you want you can cash them in. (Bit like Green Shield Stamps :-)

That way, they train the ones installing their kit, so they get better installs (less warranty issues, less breakdowns outside warranty, and thus a better reputation - it all spins money back to Daikin). Rather than just giving free courses to the theory types who do not then buy the systems.

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Probably find that when an engineer has installed a dozen systems he'll know more about the kit than 95% of the manufacturers technical team anyway.

It's fun to remember the good old days when manufacturer training was either free or a negligable cost (with the fee covering the "freebies" given out at the end).... all this nonsense, charging 150+ quid per course came about because the bean counters put budgets against the technical departments. Bloody accountants ruin all the fun! :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Makeit go Right

We had a 10kW RZQS set delivered to site; the same model as the one delivered to the site last year and, well, the condenser is a 2-fan jobbie, now. The last-year one just has the single fan. The big boy caused quite a scare on site regarding space available and lifting it. I checked the plate and double-checked it to see if the same model number (no, it was not an RZQ they delivered).

Same model, but bigger. And their current pdfs don't show it as a twin-fan, either. Bit scary, that.

And, they didn't deliver on the day, either, even with 4days leadtime. Somehow they forgot to put it on the lorry that morning (or night before) and we were kicking around trying to find something to do with ourselves while they flapped a special delivery for 2:30pm. It arrived just in time before the lads started packing up for the day.

Silly things that can really mess up the site work (and add costs). Not what you'd expect from an established company like Daikin in the top league.

Oh, and when you ring up "Daikin" regarding a delivery, it isn't Daikin on the phone. "Press 1 for this and 2 for that," and you wind up talking to a very separate delivery company that say "Daikin" but they are not Daikin; Daikin have outsourced the task to this other company and their staff don't pick up the phone until after 9:00am.

It probably makes sense to outsource deliveries, but the lines are not fully smoothed out yet (well, not in my case anyway)

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In order to support Obi Wan's comments whilst people are bashing Daikin ...

RZQS, In order to get a low inverter system that still qualifies for ECA you need a larger coil. You can't have both.

The current PDF's do state that.

Deliveries can go wrong for all sorts of reasons, sometimes it can happen on the wrong day at the wrong time on the wrong job. It happens in every industry.

If you ring Daikin about a delivery, you'll speak to Daikin about the delivery.

Established company like Daikin? I think they've come a long way for a company that's only 5 years old.

Dinner's ready so I'm climbing back in my hole now ....

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Originally Posted by Odd job

Established company like Daikin? I think they've come a long way for a company that's only 5 years old.

....

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Sadly most of the travel has been in a backwards direction..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odd job

RZQS: In order to get a low inverter system that still qualifies for ECA you need a larger coil. You can't have both.

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>> No argument there it is good that they continue to design better efficiency into the equipment. Sad that my wall-mount didn’t make it onto the ECA even with the extra fan -- still showing a couple of Cs on my “Daikin Technical Resource Library” (though that seems to be out of date). Checking out the ECA website listings, the 2-fan RZQS seems to have helped the FCQ and FBQ room units get onto the list, though, which is a well done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odd job

The current PDF's do state that.

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>> Well, maybe new pdfs do exist. However, the “Daikin Technical Resource Library,” which we are supposed to use to get the up-to-the-minute info on their equipment, rather than trouble them with every last question on the phone, does not have the latest pdfs. (I download the latest updates regularly.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odd job

If you ring Daikin about a delivery, you'll speak to Daikin about the delivery.

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>> Hmmmm. Well that is the desired PR, obviously. But it’s not what the man at the other end of the phone admitted to me when I asked a question he could not handle. A couple more searching questions and he admitted it all to me. But, if this is not true for you, you do not have to believe what I say. I'm only stating what happened, which was connected with (and possibly underlying) the flunky delivery I experienced.

Meanwhile, here's a question: Why would "Daikin Deliveries" need a special number to trace your delivery? You have all the other numbers and details but not that special number. How come they tell you to call back to Daikin Sales to get it? Can't even transfer you. It's all on the same computer network, surely? Well, no, not if 'Deliveries' is another company it isn't - they wouldn't have that kind of access.

I guess Daikin would need an 'internal deliveries dept,' someone or ones that would liaise and control things between Daikin and this other delivery company, to sort out collections etc. So Daikin WOULD have a deliveries Dept in that way. But for the customers (me etc), there seems to be this other 'external deliveries dept' -- ie this other delivery company that comes on the line when you call up Daikin, checking on your delivery (and thinking you're talking with Daikin proper.

Daikin use Christian Salvesen and have done for a few years.This was part of their major reorganisation which they have never recovered from

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2006:The last year has also seen the setting up of an 11 000 m2 central warehouse at Rochester operated by Christian Salvesen. It can hold £5 million-worth of stock, with a next-day delivery service by a network of 560 vehicles.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by multisync

Daikin use Christian Salvesen and have done for a few years.This was part of their major reorganisation which they have never recovered from

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Our last 2 VRVs werdelivered by Norbet Dressinger

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Originally Posted by Clk320_Greg

Give you an example,

Over the last year have been installing quite a few watercooled VRV's. Went to commision the latest one last week and started takeing model and serial numbers, then noticed that the trim charge table was a little different to previous and it seemd to surgest that the OD unit required an extra charge regardless of liquid lenghts. Thought it a bit odd so decided to call in and get a doubble check on it. Well Long story short 6 different daikin techs couldnt agree on it, phoned the Rep as we were getting a bit tired. He said that there was abserloutely no reason to add anything ther then liquid line, so i add my charge and crack on.... 10mins later Daikin techs on the phone telling us we DO need to add for the unit as they have had to phone the factory in brussels as none of them knew!

That aside i crack on.....

Then i go to do a recording with the service checker only to find that the latest VRV's need a different version of the SC software to be controled.... Asked why the rep didnt mention this when we went to make the order and apparently it wasnt avaliable at the time they sold us the unit? So they sold a unit WITHOUT the SC program being avaliable to beck it up.... Great!

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In relation to the refrigerant charge, the units come with an F Gas charging sticker, this clearly states the additional charged required for the system, all of the information is there.:eek:

Lets not forget that Daikin equipment is supplied by 2 authorised distributors in the UK

One distributor has, on many occasions, let us down, ending up with on costs, arguements and dissapointment.

The other one has always performed and supported our business.

All our Daikin business now goes to the one authorised distributor, where, training can be paid for with cash or loyalty points, deliveries are made when promised, and back up is quick and efficient if you pay your bills on time.