R507 in an R134a compressor: any danger?
Hi again,
I have the possibility to obtain some R507, and a second hand Danfoss NL11F to do some experimenting. If I blow it, so be it.
Now, here is my theory: I can use R507 in a R134a compressor under the following conditions:
- The oil must be compatible with R507
- Low side and high side pressures must be within the original limits
- Discharge temperature must be low enough.
The oil should be compatible since the same oil is used by Danfoss for R404/R507 and R134a.
Allowable low side pressure for the NL11F is 0.84 bar to 2 bar (-30 °C evaporation .. -10 °C evaporation with R134a)
When these pressures are translated to R507 evaporation temperatures, it shows that the evaporation temperature should be within the -50 °C .. -30 °C range. In my application, this requirement is easy to fullfill.
High side pressure is a tougher story since the saturated condensing temperature must stay below 31 °C to fullfill the requirement. Tough, but a liquid-cooled condenser should be able to fullfill this requirement.
Since the compression ratio stays approximately the same and the vapour heat capacity of R134a and R507 does not differ significantly, I do not expect problems with very high discharge temperatures.
Thus, as far as I know there are no technical reasons why it should not work, but am I correct?
And what about safety? I expect no troubles with safety, but I am not 100% sure.
Re: R507 in an R134a compressor: any danger?
Wow, it has been a long time since I visited this forum!
The R507 togeether with a Danfoss NL11F compressor was a success. Using a larger condenser kept high side pressures low, and the low evaporation temperature kept low side pressures within the compressors' limit also.
Later on I moved to an R507/R1150 cascade which was able to maintain a stable -110C (-166F) at 200W load on the evaporator. This system is still running, and is now used at CERN in Switserland by a person who uses it to test Hall-sensors for oil drilling purposes.
I'm not doing much overclocking anymore. Bought a house, went living together with my girlfriend, got a kid, etc. This all soaks up money (and time) so not much is left for buying new computer stuff on a regular basis.
But still, it itches sometimes and a week not in the shed is an unhappy week.
Currently I'm working out some details about a solar system using a refrigerant. The problem: PV panels are quite expensive, but provide their energy as electricity, which is by far the most versatile form of energy, and the most expensive to buy.
Solar water heating is cheaper, but this provides a lot of energy when I don't need it (summer time), and not that much when I do need it (winter, heating).
A fluid loop which boils off a working fluid using those modern vacuum+heatpipe tubes, passes the vapour through a turbine or reciprocating engine (which drives a PMDC brushless motor used as generator), condenses it in a regular condenser and pumps it back to the solar tubes could be much more interesting.
Such a system works on a temperature differential, and no absolute value of the temperature is needed. With the condensers at -10C and the working fluid at 0C it still works, although efficiency would be low. But there is still output. For hot water to be useable it must be at least about 35C or so, and preferrably 55-60C.
Such a system is also quite cheap to build. Well, at least for me it is because I have a pile of junk of which I can use stuff.
OK, this is not refrigeration, more the reverse of refrigeration. But nonetheless an interesting topic with the same set of rules.
R507 in an R134a compressor any danger
I have an NL Pajero and am in the process of fitting my compressor under the drivers seat. Plenty of room and ARB reckon their pumps will operate on any angle. Those compartments get pretty warm and I would think they are too small and where would you put the jack. Use them for spares.