-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Segei
What will food manufacturer tell you about increased product temperature? Who will take responsibility if some body get poisoned?
I think this why they have got all these approvals, to cover their arse, in elevating the product storage temp.
Ecocube: " not our problem the food is deteriorated, we have approval, that elevating the product temp is safe"
I am sure you did not do all this when you fitted a VSD to your motors to save energy!
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Food safety isn't simple issue. Let's leave to the professionals.
We can talk about refrigeration engineering including VSDs. However, when I look at ecocube or ecube I don't see any engineering idea that can be useful to save energy.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
I suggest those who believe will test and see results of maintaining food temperatures within accordance to the protocol P235 for food temperature monitoring with the NSF and those who don't lose nothing other than never knowing the facts.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Segei
Food safety isn't simple issue. Let's leave to the professionals.
We can talk about refrigeration engineering including VSDs. However, when I look at ecocube or ecube I don't see any engineering idea that can be useful to save energy.
I think that as an industry we should understand about food safety, maybe not the detail but at least the principles, as for most in the industry, refrigeration is used to keep food in a safe condition.
As mechanicalman, clearly states that the ecocube meets at least the minimum standards required. And it is understandable why they have gone through the standards process.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mechanicalman
I suggest those who believe will test and see results of maintaining food temperatures within accordance to the protocol P235 for food temperature monitoring with the NSF and those who don't lose nothing other than never knowing the facts.
I am not sure what you mean by this comment.
If you mean that by lifting the core temp of any product in cold storage will save energy, "then I believe!"
If you mean there is maximum allowable temp a product can be stored and is classed as legally safe, "then I believe"
Do you believe that increased temperature swings, dries out products.
Do you believe that the lower the temp of most products, the greater the products usable life.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
I think that we should follow to requirements from food manufacturer. If food spoiled and you didn't follow manufacture protocol you are guilty. Probably, protocol P235 is safe, but his is just recommendation. I didn't hear that food manufacturers measure core temperature of the stored product.
Why do you think that using endocube will lead to higher core temperature?
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Segei
I think that we should follow to requirements from food manufacturer. If food spoiled and you didn't follow manufacture protocol you are guilty. Probably, protocol P235 is safe, but his is just recommendation. I didn't hear that food manufacturers measure core temperature of the stored product.
Why do you think that using endocube will lead to higher core temperature?
If you look at the test results, on the ecocube web site, it shows that the core temp of the food increases, compared to that of the previous setting. The savings indicated by the ecocube are based around increasing the thermostat set point. Energy is Energy, this product does not change the energy dynamics of the system at a set condition. The savings come from reducing the need for cooling, basically raising the set point. The ecocube does not add more insulation to the room, nor does increase the natural refrigeration effect.
It may just be that we are over chilling our food, and the ecocube may well high light this problem.
In food production, core temp measurement and control is used very heavily (and even regulated in some sectors)
Your food, normally comes with a label, store below -18C for example. You Know that if the temp is below -18C your product core temp will be some where close.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Hi Mad fridgie.
Yours is a reasoned argument and the reason why as an engineer I questioned mechanical mans motives in the first place.
However as you have devoted some much time to put your point of view.
May I ask a question of you / make a valid point?
Does not product rotation within the store plus traffic movements within, make close control irrelevant?
Their argument is like any training school set-up. Total control can show results that are totally unpractical in the real world.
Which is where I believe you "Come in".
I have had Supermarket "specialists" telling me and various coldstore bosses that they require temp control of their product at + or - 1c.
You should of seen the womans face (and others) when I told her it's not possible.
Not without changing the existing control systems, as a standard stat has a 2c diff.
No-one before had ever argued.
Grizzly
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grizzly
Hi Mad fridgie.
Yours is a reasoned argument and the reason why as an engineer I questioned mechanical mans motives in the first place.
However as you have devoted some much time to put your point of view.
May I ask a question of you / make a valid point?
Does not product rotation within the store plus traffic movements within, make close control irrelevant?
Their argument is like any training school set-up. Total control can show results that are totally unpractical in the real world.
Which is where I believe you "Come in".
I have had Supermarket "specialists" telling me and various coldstore bosses that they require temp control of their product at + or - 1c.
You should of seen the womans face (and others) when I told her it's not possible.
Not without changing the existing control systems, as a standard stat has a 2c diff.
No-one before had ever argued.
Grizzly
Close control, is a big word, so in away you could be correct, but take for instance a cafe chiller, stock rotation is slow, use is intermittent but heavy at times, close (closer control) does help keep the product better for longer. You may or may not know, when designing fresh product room we design with high humidity, so small td on the evap.
I will give you an "over the top example" what may happen with products using this device.
get a chicken out of the fridge, place into a hot oven for 5 mins. What temp will the surface be, what temp will it be 15mm into the flesh. Or make a bit a guess.
Also many supermarkets over chill to allow transport of the product home, especially ice creams, with high % overrun (lot of air, less cream)
i am not saying the ecocube is a bad product, just that what and how it does what is claimed need to be explained.
It is something many guys have done to resolve certain problems, reads "magoo's" thread.
the Blood banks always recorded both air temp and simulated product temps.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
G'day Grizzly. Air-conditioned supermarkets and fast turnover is one scenario. Corner stores, restaurants and the like, is another. Setting a conventional thermostat for 2,3,4 degrees differential on return air temperature will have minimal effect on overall product core temperature. My focus is on the smaller business guy that doesn't have the capitol to have his coldroom or freezer room access to an a/c environment.
May i say, most times here, the room door is opened to ambient temperature, and whether or not a curtain has been installed, a significant amount of warm air is introduced, as the cold air escapes.
For a small coldroom, air temp is quickly lost and the room contents are now absorbing heat. The insulated thermostat cannot see the rapid rise in air temperature, as i have said in one of the comments above,and the room temperature rises far too much.
The longer the thermostat is delayed from restarting the next refrigeration cycle, the quicker the product will deteriorate. Shorter shelf life results, then the unsuspecting owner may well have a case of salmonella,(food poisoning) on his hands.
I honestly think that air temperature control is a must, regardless of the core temp of products :).
BTW, the rum in my fridge has to be at the right temperature in the afternoons or there will be hell to pay ;)
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Ah, Mad. You snuck in when i was composing. Hope i haven't undermined your comment :eek:
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Should I have said "Delayed control" or at least "delayed responce" then?
Sorry Guys
I have misunderstood this is not a one size fits all scenario then and I can see were this type of control would indeed have merit in some of the applications you are describing.
Grizzly
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Yo mike no problems whats so ever, the more opinions the better.
Grizzy, you are right it is not one product that fits all, but what products are.
There are many energy saving devices (well meant to be), all with great results, but normally without the fundamentals to back it up. You should ask questions always, also do not trust what I say, keep asking, for alternative opinions. Then you make your mind up.
I also make energy saving products, (unfortunately my marketing is shyte.), so I am use to people ripping into me and the product. As an engineer I should be able to prove principle, and know the limits of the application.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Interesting MF. You may question your own marketing, but I cannot fault your reasoning.
No doubt we will speak again.
Cheers Grizzly
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Is this guy for real? The day he joins RE, his first post is a blatant advertisement, and then "frigi" who just happened to join up to RE the very next day seems to just show up in mechanical mans threads to assure us the product is just great, hahaha
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
If you look at the test results, on the ecocube web site, it shows that the core temp of the food increases, compared to that of the previous setting. The savings indicated by the ecocube are based around increasing the thermostat set point. Energy is Energy, this product does not change the energy dynamics of the system at a set condition. The savings come from reducing the need for cooling, basically raising the set point. The ecocube does not add more insulation to the room, nor does increase the natural refrigeration effect.
It may just be that we are over chilling our food, and the ecocube may well high light this problem.
In food production, core temp measurement and control is used very heavily (and even regulated in some sectors)
Your food, normally comes with a label, store below -18C for example. You Know that if the temp is below -18C your product core temp will be some where close.
Again, this conclusion based on test results. However, we are engineers and I don't understand why core temperature is higher. Assume that initially air temperature was set to 38F. It will fluctuate from 35F to 41F and product temperature will be 38F. With endocube air temperature will fluctuate from 32F to 44F and product temperature will be 38F as well.
My concerns that all conclusions based on certain tests without explanation why it happened.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
Yo mike no problems whats so ever, the more opinions the better.
Grizzy, you are right it is not one product that fits all, but what products are.
There are many energy saving devices (well meant to be), all with great results, but normally without the fundamentals to back it up. You should ask questions always, also do not trust what I say, keep asking, for alternative opinions. Then you make your mind up.
I also make energy saving products, (unfortunately my marketing is shyte.), so I am use to people ripping into me and the product. As an engineer I should be able to prove principle, and know the limits of the application.
I don't believe in energy saving devices that can't be explained.
This is the reason why. Usually, to save energy we should improve efficiency of the refrigeration plant. Efficiency means energy use per unit of refrigeration. E=P/RE. P is energy. RE is refrigeration capacity. However, we can measure only energy. Result will be valid only if RE is constant. However, when you play with RE you can get any result you want. This is the reason I'm skeptical about test results that can't be explained. They have opportunity to play with RE.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
I think too many people are arguing over something they haven't physically tried. I was originally posting this information based on our own findings. as an engineer myself and not saying I am the best in what I do, nor am I saying the best in what we do. But you can get energy savings from this device.
By placing the endocube over the air temperature sensor you are then encasing the probe, the formula in the cube is made to replicate a shelf fish as a small item of food type and the most sensitive temperature variation.
The product wasn't designed as an energy saving device, it was in fact as a food temperature monitoring device. it was the fact that after encasing the air temperature probe into the endocube the equipment started to run 3 degrees colder, it was then after turning the set point back up in line with the required temperature the equipment was saving as it wasn't running as hard to meet lower temps.
This means when doors are opened the compressor wasn't kicking in based on air temperatures moving up and down. Food temperatures move a lot slower so no need to have food being over cooled.
this them showed us longer run times but much longer rest times. we have now seen a reduction of 47% less starts on the compressor, and an 18% saving on a walk-in cooler we have also taken the defrost down dramatically also down to 1 in 3
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
"...the equipment started to run 3 degrees colder". What do you mean? Is this discharge pressure, suction pressure, suction temperature, air temperature or anything else?
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
I thought that major focus was on product temperature. Definitely, it takes time to cool endocube so plant should run longer and at lower suction pressure. If you increase air temperature, product temperature will increase as well.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
The Air temperature probe is inside the endocube. And because of this the the equipment stats to run colder, it is this set point we turned up by 3 degree which then stabled the food temperature to remain stable at 38c and even when the door opens the compressor only comes on in line with the set point of the food temperature and not air temperature.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mechanicalman
The Air temperature probe is inside the endocube. And because of this the the equipment stats to run colder, it is this set point we turned up by 3 degree which then stabled the food temperature to remain stable at 38c and even when the door opens the compressor only comes on in line with the set point of the food temperature and not air temperature.
And that is what itdoes (typo I think, 38C, should be 38F)
This clearly shown on the endocube web site.
It also clearly shows, that the "product temp" without the endocube was at an average of 34F, also showing variable air temps. 4F increase in product temp, thus increased average air temp would indeed save energy.
With the endocube installed, no reference was made to the air temp, but the temp within the endocube.
The endocube for sure would be great on room thermometers and alarm sensing, as for control, I would say horses for courses. The energy savings come from awareness not from the product directly.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
paulg88
Is this guy for real? The day he joins RE, his first post is a blatant advertisement, and then "frigi" who just happened to join up to RE the very next day seems to just show up in mechanical mans threads to assure us the product is just great, hahaha
Unless they are using proxy servers, they appear to be on opposite side of the world, 1 in Florida and 1 in Australia....at least that's what the IP addresses say.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frank
Unless they are using proxy servers, they appear to be on opposite side of the world, 1 in Florida and 1 in Australia....at least that's what the IP addresses say.
Not sure what means, but as shown (can not rember thread number) edcocube are presently doing their stuff in Australia! If smells like fish then it either fish, or ??????????
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
No Endocube has an office in Florida, New York, Australia, United Kingdom. Manufacturer is Universal Master Products Ltd U.S Distributor is Refrigerator saver & they have a dealer in Australia Onergy and another guy in S America. We have had conversation with them several times. nice enough guys and the inventor is a guy called Harry who seemed to know his industry inside out. I think we have had a lot of bickering like old women on these threads. we have done our own tests and seen positive results. we didn't think it would work either but it did and does. if you cannot take my word call them in UK Florida where ever and try it yourself. I like you have been on the tools for years and seen all kinds of gimmicks. I thought this was another of those magic bullet items. but we did our testing and were proven wrong but in a pleasantly surprised way. we only investigated deeper as we had a client looking for more stable temperatures and got them what they needed through this device. now we have installed them into seven stores. And that is enough to get us more involved with the product based on this clients reputation.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
servicefiter562
Not sure what differance the sst has to do with the ability of the cube to mimic product temp. I have been testing the device in 2- large refrigerated warehouse's for the last 2- months. Defrost times based on liquid run time,inital settings before cube installed 18hrs to24hrs. After cube was installed i have defrost set at 168hrs, dock,coolers and freezers, with no ice or frost build up and temps within a 2* window. Outside ambients 35* to 60*, humidity 35% to 55%. This is on 1500 ton R-717 recirculated system with hot gas defrost. Estamated savings of annual k.w. due to reducing number of defrosts per coil based on tonnage of coil and k.w. rate, multiplied by the number of defrosts per coil. Number of coils in facility 28. K.w.rate .08. Estamated savings $8000.00 to 9500.00 a year, that number was figured at 78hrs liquid run time not the current 168hr run time. It appears to be working well to myself and my customer.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
servicefiter562
servicefiter562
Not sure what differance the sst has to do with the ability of the cube to mimic product temp. I have been testing the device in 2- large refrigerated warehouse's for the last 2- months. Defrost times based on liquid run time,inital settings before cube installed 18hrs to24hrs. After cube was installed i have defrost set at 168hrs, dock,coolers and freezers, with no ice or frost build up and temps within a 2* window. Outside ambients 35* to 60*, humidity 35% to 55%. This is on 1500 ton R-717 recirculated system with hot gas defrost. Estamated savings of annual k.w. due to reducing number of defrosts per coil based on tonnage of coil and k.w. rate, multiplied by the number of defrosts per coil. Number of coils in facility 28. K.w.rate .08. Estamated savings $8000.00 to 9500.00 a year, that number was figured at 78hrs liquid run time not the current 168hr run time. It appears to be working well to myself and my customer.
Is it cooler or freezer? Do you think that endocube influence on rate of frost formation?
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
And that is what itdoes (typo I think, 38C, should be 38F)
This clearly shown on the endocube web site.
It also clearly shows, that the "product temp" without the endocube was at an average of 34F, also showing variable air temps. 4F increase in product temp, thus increased average air temp would indeed save energy.
With the endocube installed, no reference was made to the air temp, but the temp within the endocube.
The endocube for sure would be great on room thermometers and alarm sensing, as for control, I would say horses for courses. The energy savings come from awareness not from the product directly.
I looked at these graphs again. Original air temperature set point was 35F. Air temperature fluctuated from 35F to 37F. Product temperature was 36F. I agree with this. Why don't we just increase set point to 39F? Air temperature will fluctuate from 39F to 41F? Product temperature will be 40F. So we have opportunity to increase temperature not because of endocube, because initial temperature was set too low.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
seigi
The only thing the cube is doing is mimicing the product temp, by looking at product temp your temp control is not responding to air changes when doors open and close. Instead of the unit cycling on and off rapidly as it normally does you end up with a slightly longer run cycle and slightly longer off cycle,you will build up a slight amount of dew frost onthe fins during the run cycle and the coil will clear the frost during off cycle.Works the same in a cooler or freezer. I have set the evap fans to continus run on the dock and 28* room to extend defrost time out to 168hrs. I am not sure what some were saying about incresed product temp with the cube, we are finding consistant product temps in all rooms. We are recording them seperate with a 3rd party calibrated recorder made by sensitech. I have been in the refrigeration industry 35 years and have found most devices are a joke. This little sucker actually works
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Refrigeration is based around a simple principle of an energy mass balance.
Any system for a set condition requires "x" cooling, this is fundamental to out industry. So to reduce the "x' cooling, you do need to do something that load profile, for example, more insulation, less air infiltration, lift the temperature and so on. Is there an argument here.
To increase the efficiency, of an existing plant, you have change the working conditions of the plant, change in SCT, SST, SC, HP and so on. This again is fundamental to our industry.
The ecocube does not change any of the load requirement for a set condition nor does over influence the working conditions of the refrigerant plant at the set conditions.
However to achieve the savings indicated, the refrigerated area internal conditions have changed. The room and the product becomes warmer. This is clearly shown on the test results given on the ecocube web site!
If this not true please explain the savings, based upon basic fundamental engineering principles.
The principle of thermal lag, is nothing new, this product may well be the best product simulator.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Segei
I looked at these graphs again. Original air temperature set point was 35F. Air temperature fluctuated from 35F to 37F. Product temperature was 36F. I agree with this. Why don't we just increase set point to 39F? Air temperature will fluctuate from 39F to 41F? Product temperature will be 40F. So we have opportunity to increase temperature not because of endocube, because initial temperature was set too low.
You are correct. This elevated temperature will give you the savings.
Because the air temp is higher the SST will also be higher, so ice formation is reduced, and even during the off cycle, natural defrost will occur more quickly.
If some one, decides to look at energy efficiency with a product, they also tend to look at the cause of the energy use. Often small changes are made in other areas, to save energy, these savings all get lumped into the saving of the device installed.
If you look further down the ecocube test data, read the comments, one indicates that one system was optimized (it has a small problem) without the ecocube it is unlikely that this problem would not have been found. Which in itself is not a bad thing.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
Refrigeration is based around a simple principle of an energy mass balance.
Any system for a set condition requires "x" cooling, this is fundamental to out industry. So to reduce the "x' cooling, you do need to do something that load profile, for example, more insulation, less air infiltration, lift the temperature and so on. Is there an argument here.
To increase the efficiency, of an existing plant, you have change the working conditions of the plant, change in SCT, SST, SC, HP and so on. This again is fundamental to our industry.
The ecocube does not change any of the load requirement for a set condition nor does over influence the working conditions of the refrigerant plant at the set conditions.
However to achieve the savings indicated, the refrigerated area internal conditions have changed. The room and the product becomes warmer. This is clearly shown on the test results given on the ecocube web site!
If this not true please explain the savings, based upon basic fundamental engineering principles.
The principle of thermal lag, is nothing new, this product may well be the best product simulator.
My question was. Why don't we just increase set point from 35F to 39F? Result will be the same.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
servicefiter562
seigi
The only thing the cube is doing is mimicing the product temp, by looking at product temp your temp control is not responding to air changes when doors open and close. Instead of the unit cycling on and off rapidly as it normally does you end up with a slightly longer run cycle and slightly longer off cycle,you will build up a slight amount of dew frost onthe fins during the run cycle and the coil will clear the frost during off cycle.Works the same in a cooler or freezer. I have set the evap fans to continus run on the dock and 28* room to extend defrost time out to 168hrs. I am not sure what some were saying about incresed product temp with the cube, we are finding consistant product temps in all rooms. We are recording them seperate with a 3rd party calibrated recorder made by sensitech. I have been in the refrigeration industry 35 years and have found most devices are a joke. This little sucker actually works
May be you don't need defrost at all.;) Can you explain one thing. How does frost clear during off cycle? Sometimes(not always) it can happen for the cooler. How does it happen for the freezer?
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
servicefiter562
seigi
The only thing the cube is doing is mimicing the product temp, by looking at product temp your temp control is not responding to air changes when doors open and close. Instead of the unit cycling on and off rapidly as it normally does you end up with a slightly longer run cycle and slightly longer off cycle,you will build up a slight amount of dew frost onthe fins during the run cycle and the coil will clear the frost during off cycle.Works the same in a cooler or freezer. I have set the evap fans to continus run on the dock and 28* room to extend defrost time out to 168hrs. I am not sure what some were saying about incresed product temp with the cube, we are finding consistant product temps in all rooms. We are recording them seperate with a 3rd party calibrated recorder made by sensitech. I have been in the refrigeration industry 35 years and have found most devices are a joke. This little sucker actually works
Sorry Seigi, hope i am not stepping on your feet here!
I would expect that defrost is better with an ecocube, then with a standard close control thermsost, all this shows is that you had the incorrect defrost/temp control method. By simply increasing you hysteresis and set point, and/or increasing your anti cycle/run on cycle timesr, the exact same result applies. Ok by doing this you have lost a small amount of close control on air temp, but that equally applies to the ecocube.
The increased product temp, is directly related to the results shown on the ecocube website, which relates back directly to the energy savings.
The ecocube for most products should not alter the steady state core temps, it could cause problem with medium to long term storage of things like lettuce (which have little thermal mass "thin bits"), the larger temp swings will speed up natural dehumidification (the leaves become droopy and less crisp)
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Segei
My question was. Why don't we just increase set point from 35F to 39F? Result will be the same.
100% agreed.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
servicefiter562
seigi
The only thing the cube is doing is mimicing the product temp, by looking at product temp your temp control is not responding to air changes when doors open and close. Instead of the unit cycling on and off rapidly as it normally does you end up with a slightly longer run cycle and slightly longer off cycle,you will build up a slight amount of dew frost onthe fins during the run cycle and the coil will clear the frost during off cycle.Works the same in a cooler or freezer. I have set the evap fans to continus run on the dock and 28* room to extend defrost time out to 168hrs. I am not sure what some were saying about incresed product temp with the cube, we are finding consistant product temps in all rooms. We are recording them seperate with a 3rd party calibrated recorder made by sensitech. I have been in the refrigeration industry 35 years and have found most devices are a joke. This little sucker actually works
I see some flaws here. You now have the fans running all the time (so i must presume, that they cycled off with the old stat), so this fact alone aids in defrosting, plus you are using power for the fans and you need to remove the energy produced by the fans. (there are arguments about fans on or off, but that is a different subject)
You quote savings made by reducing defrost, I am struggling here a bit as well.
You are using hot gas, so no cost for defrosting directly. (unlike an element which does) However there could be a slight saving made, Ok after defrost there is a need to remove the energy from the coil block and a % of the mass entrapped liquid. This is easily calculated.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
I see some flaws here. You now have the fans running all the time (so i must presume, that they cycled off with the old stat), so this fact alone aids in defrosting, plus you are using power for the fans and you need to remove the energy produced by the fans. (there are arguments about fans on or off, but that is a different subject)
You quote savings made by reducing defrost, I am struggling here a bit as well.
You are using hot gas, so no cost for defrosting directly. (unlike an element which does) However there could be a slight saving made, Ok after defrost there is a need to remove the energy from the coil block and a % of the mass entrapped liquid. This is easily calculated.
Definitely, that hot gas supply is free. However, efficiency of hot gas defrosting is very low. Typically, 10-20% of hot gas energy goes to melt the ice, the rest is parasitic refrigeration load.
Actually, I think that endocube is really "magic" device.
1. It save 20-40% energy, but nobody can explain how.
2. It reduce rate of frost formation and help to clear the frost from the freezer evaporators. Nobody knows how to explain this phenomenon.
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Segei
Definitely, that hot gas supply is free. However, efficiency of hot gas defrosting is very low. Typically, 10-20% of hot gas energy goes to melt the ice, the rest is parasitic refrigeration load.
Actually, I think that endocube is really "magic" device.
1. It save 20-40% energy, but nobody can explain how.
2. It reduce rate of frost formation and help to clear the frost from the freezer evaporators. Nobody knows how to explain this phenomenon.
Not going to argue with on the defrost, I not a NH3 specialist, know enough not to be BS
So do I gather you what to be the Canadian agent for ecocube? You just can beat a bit of magic!
-
Re: Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!
Lol web detcetives :off topic:, I am back been to busy working
I have only just started using the endocube, i also intially thought that it would not work, but it does the trick and it is making my customers happy, and i am making more money ;)