New LG outdoor unit compressor noise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-mXzMrkUjw


Is this normal as my new outdoor unit is making this noise, My unit is making this noise, particularly at lower frequencies at about 400w on the energy monitor but also when it's at about 700w input. Definitely coming from the compressor. To note when I took the jacket off the compressor the jacket had some heat damage and melted spot in an area across the top where it touches the edge of the compressor.


I thought maybe it was vibrations from the casing but it's actually coming from the compressor as can be heard in the video. It's distracting when sat outside on my patio.


Can you advise please? It has made this noise from new and was installed in November.


Thank you kindly.

Unit under warranty? Ask installer if noise is normal, are you sure its the compressor, get a screwdriver against the body and to your ear, slight possibility its the expansion valves.

Given the many threads on your previous LG, would you not have been tempted to go for another brand:D (only joking:))

Yes unit is under warranty was only put in November. Yes I know your correct I managed to get LG to look into my issues and turns out the outdoor unit was not compatible with my indoor units even though they said for so long that they were!

Just an update, LG said the compressor looks to be faulty and have sent a replacement compressor.

Engineer is coming this week to replace compressor. I have been told that an acid test should be done but LG said that as compressor has not burnt out this should not need to be done.

We are going to reuse the refrigerant that was in the unit though to save on costs.

Fair play for persevering with LG considering how bad they have been since day one many years ago :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by back2space

Just an update, LG said the compressor looks to be faulty and have sent a replacement compressor.

Engineer is coming this week to replace compressor. I have been told that an acid test should be done but LG said that as compressor has not burnt out this should not need to be done.

We are going to reuse the refrigerant that was in the unit though to save on costs.

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Save costs for who?
The compressor is going to be changed under warranty, so no
cost to you whether they replace the refrigerant for new or not.

Doing an acid test is not nessesary because the comp has failed
mechanically and the refrigerant should still be good.

Rob
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I'd want new refrigerant, it may be nice and clean now while its in your system but after its been through the recovery machine and sat in a cylinder while the compressor is being changed it may have picked up contaminants along the way.

@back2space, when new compressor is installed in the outdoor unit, make sure whole system is subjected to vacuum, in order to get rid of moisture, air and carbonised oil(due to brazing process). In our country Daikin is the only company which insists on vacuuming the entire system during installation.

flush it first- but not like this:p
https://youtu.be/0gp_03zfBgE

LG only paying for compressor under warranty this doesn't consider labour or fresh refrigerant but does offer a labour contribution of £162!

Compressor has been changed today, engineer didn't have any additional r410 as assumed the charge in the unit was ok. Factory charge is 3.2kg plus an additional 54g for a pipe run but could only recover 2.92g - there are no leaks at all on the system. When he was removing the compressor all the oil shot out and blasted out all over the inside off the unit making a right mess. This lasted about 7 seconds or so. He said that some refrigerant will have been trapped in the compressor and when it was heated up by de brazing and this might be the 280g that was short when trying to recover. After replacement he vac'd down to 62 tor on his gauge for about 45mins - the evaporation temp on his gauges said -22c and he's confident it will have have removed everything required from the pipe work. I thought this was a bit short and when LG put it in it was 1 hour they did this for. Unit is cooling and heating fine though and compressor now silent.

The figures from LG and how they calculate the additional charge is a major difficultly it doesn't seem clear at all. Total pipe length is 27.5m and it is factory charged for 30m @ 7.5m per run. Anyway we work out that there is required 280g to bring it upto the factory charge and an additional 54g for the piperun that is over the 7.5m factory charge. Total 334g I have 4 indoor units connected and this is the max the unit can have connected. He is however going to have to return this week to add this additional gas though. Question though does this all look OK to you with not being able to recover the full refrigerant amount and then it looking short. My understanding is that you should never have less in the unit than the factory charge? However confused as to why we are not just adding enough refrigerant to cover 27.5m as if it's pre charged to 30m already (granted we are short of gas) then if some pipe runs are shorter than the 7.5m then why are we adding extra as surely those that are shorter account for the longer one or do we add gas If any run goes above this?

Ive attached screen shots from the manual for LG's calculation for additional refrigerant.

Attachment 14148 Attachment 14149

Here is my piperun lengths:

A: 3.3m
B: 7.2m
C: 10.2m
D: 6.8m = 27.5m

Be grateful if anyone can help - thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by back2space

LG only paying for compressor under warranty this doesn't consider labour or fresh refrigerant but does offer a labour contribution of £162!

Compressor has been changed today, engineer didn't have any additional r410 as assumed the charge in the unit was ok. Factory charge is 3.2kg plus an additional 54g for a pipe run but could only recover 2.92g - there are no leaks at all on the system. When he was removing the compressor all the oil shot out and blasted out all over the inside off the unit making a right mess. This lasted about 7 seconds or so. He said that some refrigerant will have been trapped in the compressor and when it was heated up by de brazing and this might be the 280g that was short when trying to recover. After replacement he vac'd down to 62 tor on his gauge for about 45mins - the evaporation temp on his gauges said -22c and he's confident it will have have removed everything

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What a carry on.
I don't know your full story, others refer to your history with LG???

Did you buy the units privately and install yourself? If they are under warranty
why are the installation company not standing the full cost?

Back to the comp change, I don't want to comment on the guy who changed
the pot but I would be seriously concerned about somebody who could not recover
all the refrigerant from the system and then violently blows off oil and trapped refrigerant!

Also the vac numbers do not make sense, did he tell you them or did you see them?
62 torr is an appalling level for a vac, less than 2 torr is a requirement, so either the
number, the scale or the evacuation was wrong? The minus 22c on his gauge would
suggest he was using his gauge manifold and not a torr gauge, correct evacuation
can not be done with the gauges only?

As for the refrigerant recovery, we always look for the same out as what went in,
but in truth the amount can and does vary, dependant on the type of recovery
machine used and there could be at least 100 grammes trapped in the discharge hose
connected to the cylinder and that always gets wasted, plus scales always vary
so +-50g might be accounted for with the difference between scales.

Another point is the refrigerant charge for 30mtr, you say your system is only 27.5mtr
but if you should only have maximum pipe runs of 7.5mtrs the 10mtr run is over that
(as you must be aware) but the whole distance is under the total of 30mtrs, so why the
additions?

Regards

Rob

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The unit was a warranty replacement by lg fitted by one of their approved fitters. This is because they said my old outdoor unit would be compatible with the new indoor units and it wasn't. I've had many troubles so they replaced the whole outdoor due to advising wrong info.

I'm really concerned now as he said that it was pulling a good vacuum I found him online and he seemed reputable. I saw the levels myself, and it went down to 56 and his other gauges with the dials were at 0 by the time he took them off. He didn't blast it out with nitrogen either. I have just asked him about the reading and he said it was 0.56 not 56. He had the vac pump on for 45 mins. The -22c was on his torr guage he just said and that showed the temp and torr.

Regarding refrigerant charge the book says its pre charged for 30m based on each indoor unit on 7.5m run. No indoor can exceed 70m anything about the 7.5m requires extra refrigerant.

He says it needs 325g in but then your not accounting for the loss in the hoses either. Plus his scales said that only 2.56kg went back in... He said his hoses were adding weight in the scales. Typical this you cannot trust anyone at all - £400 quid down I am and I'm not even confident he's done it properly.

Heres a pic of his brazing skills... Slight dint in one of the pipes. Think am gonna have to find someone to come and pump it all back down again and weigh in the correct amount. :(

Attachment 14150

Attachment 14151

Bit cheeky, charging out labour as only 6 months old. Think we'll up our prices if that's the rate for the job with no gas. Have always seen pricing as some sort of art form...

Not had a real good look and not sure of your model but as Rob says extra charge is considering the total run, not individually, so in effect you have 2.5m to spare therefore no extra charge required.
Regarding the recovered amount I guess it got pretty much there and when the compressor got knocked about the oil got slopped about and gas boiled out. Have had similar happen to me when trying to pour oil out to test and next thing it's coming out like a Roman Candle.

Brazing looks alright to me. Dinks probably from his grips when he took the old pipes out. For the purist they could have been brazed over but can't see them causing you any problems.
Quite possible that all the reclaimed refrigerant wouldn't go back in. Would have lost some anyhow through purging lines so should have had a bit spare to make up the loss. Take it reclaim was a new bottle?

Good luck, at least there is some light at the end of your long and dark tunnel.

Thanks,
Andy.

Thanks for the response Andy bit more reassuring. Well either way we may not need the additional 54g but we deffo need the difference to make it upto factory charge he thinks - 280g.

However what do you do about what gets stuck in the hoses? Do you add a little more on and say put it to 350g or call it 300g? LG calculations if you look at the screen shot are complicated.

Want this to be done properly and then I can forget about it. He just seemed so scatty when he was charging it back up was saying he might not have reset his scales properly when he put the bottle back on and then said the hoses were adding more weight so we have the possibility that it might have had 2.92kg removed or gone back in. Or we had 2.56kg removed and that's what went back in as the bottle was empty he said. He said it was his own bottle and said it was clean.

Part of me thinking to find someone else now to come reclaim what's in it and fill with fresh gram for gram. But who can you trust they all talk the talk to get the job then cut corners or at least it looks that way.

Back when I worked in a garage the rule was to add 100g for the lines. Now I'm doing it properly, :-), no one, not even manufactures mention it and I've always gone with the set amount, pump down unit when removing gauges. Your man should know how much went in as bottle should have been empty when started, tare weight is stamped on the bottle, renaming weight minus tare gives you what's left. If he isn't sure about when the gauges went on, etc then who knows what went in but easy to tell what is left, just weigh the thing.
Best if he comes back and reclaims it then there is no funny business, then add the correct charge. Should have got it right first time, it's basic stuff but hey, we all have our bad days, don't know the guy so don't want to comment on that aspect further but would think it fair that you aren't charged again for this.

Edit: 'his own bottle, clean', how do you clean your own bottle unless it is a new one from the wholesaler?

Yeah your right - I don't know if his bottle was new it looks new but that says nothing. He said it was fresh too. I am gonna look for someone else to do it and come back as my gut instinct tells me something isn't right. So many cow boys out there give others a bad name. Even to put the additional amount in you have no idea if that's right either and I don't think he does...

Spoke with LG this morning they said as the compressor had a fault the fact there was refrigerant "locked" in it that couldnt be recovered shows that its good that it was replaced. It is normal for the oil to come out like it did when heated with the brazing torch to remove pipes etc. They have also said that as my pipe run is only 27.5 total all they would suggest is bringing it back upto the factory charge of 3.2kg as it is then pre charged for 30m. Any additional refrigerant above the 27.5m will stay in the accumulator.

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I think the problem is we are advising on something that we have
not seen and we are trying to be as polite as possible with the
level of service you have received up to now.

I won't comment on the guys capabilities because I don't know him
and I never seen him do the work, but most half decent guys know
how to prep a receiver cylinder, they know how to recover the whole
charge and they should know how to fit and remove gauges.

The whole process will always lose refrigerant and no 2 systems will
ever work identical but removing the refrigerant and recharging is basic
refrigeration. When done wrong you may as well not bother with any
form of standard and you end up with all sorts of kit just thrown in.

If the level of vac was indeed .56 torr that is excellent so that part of
it seems OK, the trapped refrigerant does happen and it has happened
to me if I was rushing or forgot to do something.

As for it being an indication to a fault in the comp and proof that it required
testing, well I don't know. Better people than me might know but if
you connect the gauges up correctly and if you recover correctly then
it should not happen.

Which pipe did the trapped refrigerant come out of? If it came out of the discharge
pipe, maybe it could be due to a faulty comp and indicative of a failure, if it
came out of the suction then that might not be a good sign to the recovery.

From my part it is all if, buts and maybe's and I am reluctant to comment on
previous work because I have no personal knowledge of it. The guy who
did the work might be the best engineer going and it is not my place to
pull his work to pieces over the internet.

I just can't for the life of me understand how you have ended up in this
position and how you have been abandoned by the installer and manufacturer.

Regards

Rob

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Hi Rob and thanks for the reply.

I remember seeing 56 on his tor guage, I saw nothing before the 56 but reckon that it was .56 then if that is zero. It did change to .62 and then dropped down to .56 again.

He disconnected the discharge (thinner) first with no problems I remember seeing this disconnected. He then went to disconnect the suction (larger) and thats when I just saw the cloud of smoke that I assume was the refrigerant and oil vapour. It lasted about 6 seconds or so followed by swearing and him and the interior of the unit covered in oil which has had to be cleaned down. Luckily it didnt get on the PCB. He said it came out the discharge pipe as it was sweating the suction off when he was de-brazing.

Appreciate that you did not see the system before hand. Manufacturer LG replaced the O/D unit in November via their nominated supplier. As my previous O/D unit was 6 years old and was brought to my house to be installed with new indoor units, it was checked with LG that the indoors would be compatible with the older outdoor unit. They said it was, we then ended up with loads of control issues. As a goodwill gesture for giving wrong info and for it dragging on for about 2 years of not having a functioning system they agreed to replace the o/d and install at no cost to me. However as my other unit was well out of warranty they have supplied a 12 months parts warranty but I must pay for any labour required on the system - they give a £162 labour contribution towards it. That hardly touches what I have paid for this compressor change. PLus my engineer didnt want to get involved with LG warranty as he didnt fit the system so I have had to "buy" the compressor on my credit card and await the warranty claim to be passed through.

Here is the video of the noise the compressor was making...

https://youtu.be/k-mXzMrkUjw

This was sent to LG and they advised the following:

Hi Richard,

I’m sorry to hear you’re experiencing issues with your Air conditioning system. After reviewing the movie clip, the compressor noise does sound slightly abnormal and has potentially developed a fault. The compressor may operate like this for some time before it eventually seizes. With the information provided, I would recommend the compressor is replaced before the system becomes completely inoperative.

In keeping with our warranty policy and labour contributions, please ask your Engineer to contact LG to order a new compressor.

You will also be applicable for a labour contribution of £162.00, to help towards costs of the repairs.

A credit for the compressor and labour contribution can be claimed on submission/ approval of a warranty claim.

Part No	Description
TBZ35620301	Compressor Set,Korea

If you require any further assistance, please let me know.

Regards

Technical Manager

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Right, rock and hard place springs to mind. Seems like a nightmare all round
and you are in the middle of it. Throwing a few thousand pounds at it would
sort it but that is the last thing you want to hear, eh.

Bad deal all round and everyone is trying to do what they seem is the right thing,
but your still left with the messy end of a sh*ty stick and no easy solution.

Going back to the comp change, it sounds like the compressor did just trump,
not a pretty sight as you saw, but funny if it is not you.

Stay with it, it sounds like you are on the last leg and once you get the refrigerant
charge sorted, hopefully it will be all ok.

Regards

Rob

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Well I've had someone else back tonight someone who was an old contact through work... He's very trustworthy and I wasn't sure he was in business still but luckily found his number and contacted him. LG said to put 280g to take it back upto factory charge. He has suggested and has put it to 420 to allow for losses in the pipework. When this guy does work for me he leaves me with a good feeling. Charged me £80 to sort refrigerant out - most of that was his time here of 2.5hours. System is very quiet now and seems to be cooling/heating very well. We shall see how we get on. :)

Just an update for you all:

The newly fitted compressor got even louder...

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfLjarfbeI

2. included in post below...

I told LG and the distributor that this must be sorted out as our neighbour was complaining about it and it was also making such a loud noise in the house.

LG initially said they would offer another compressor but I said absolutely not as this would mean the unit being stripped down again and messing about. I requested that they replace the outdoor unit and they agreed on this but I had to pay for the install they would not cover this under the warranty. I decided to grab this and run.

The new outdoor unit was fitted by my 2nd engineer at a cost of £350 it was a days work for him as he tidied up the pipework to his own standards etc.. unit is now very quiet at full hz and low hz. He also made a point that some of the vibrations were transferring to inside the house as LG had not used the rubber isolation feet that came with the unit. They had used the original thin rubber ones that were on the old 8 year old unit (I think they came with the wall bracket)

The unit is used on mild cooling setting (set on outdoor unit) this increases the evaporation temperature so air off can be as high as 14/16C in cooling (depending on outdoor temp) in recent heatwave temps of 32C the unit cooled the house perfectly whilst just ticking over and never cycling off but inside temps maintained.

Noisy video 2...

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzUFHHk_NfU

At some point you'll realise that whatever you do and however much you spend it'll still have an LG sticker on it..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r.bartlett

At some point you'll realise that whatever you do and however much you spend it'll still have an LG sticker on it..

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I know! Been a nightmare, i've had LG TV's for years though and they have outlasted Samsung as well as an LG fridge. Hence why I originally got LG air con.