Linde Pack, Oil recovery system.

Can anyone enlighten me about the Oil recovery system for a Linde H.T Pack operating on R22, Type VHP 330 4011, Manufactured in Germany 1997.

There is no conventional Oil seporater fitted in the common discharge line, however there is a quarter pipe (brazed into the common discharge) line feeding back to the compressors (3 x 15 h.p Bitzers) all with no oil regulators fitted.
I have always been informed that this type of Linde oil recovery system works on the Venturi principle (I know the principle)...is this true and could anyone supply a pipeline schematic to the Linde design?

My enquiries seem to come to a dead end hence my enquiry on this forum.

Thanking you in advance.

Is it just a 1/4 pipe or is there also a capillary tube?
Isn't this 1/4 pipe soldered just before the pipe is going upwards?
Make a picture or a drawing of i.
There were some posts of me last week stating that an oil separator isn't necessary and Linde isn't such a small company.
You can learn a lot from such a well designed packs as Linde.

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Originally Posted by Peter_1

You can learn a lot from such a well designed packs as Linde.

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I used to work with Linde packs for last two years and i never had any problems with oil ( if the suction line is designed ok ) or anything else... and i always admired the simplicity of their packs.
Your pack doesn't have... -i'm not sure that i'm going to say this right- something like a adjustable screw in the suction collector for each compressor for oil level ?

OK, those screws should never be touched. Man, the amount of compressors that have went down on a Linde pack because someone "had a go" at the oil screws.

Peter 1,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

The 1/4 pipe is soldered just before the main discharge is going upright, no capillary tube.

Oil screws??

Does anyone have a piping diagram or other information for these units? I am not familiar with them and would be interested to learn more.

Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buddy

Peter 1,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

The 1/4 pipe is soldered just before the main discharge is going upright, no capillary tube.

Oil screws??

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on the suction header, look at the bottom and you should see stubs covered in insulation. Those are adjustable screws to adjust the oil flow to each compressor.

Hi Buddy,

Good Luck, A lot of Co-op stores in the north of england seem to have these packs fitted and have major oil problems. I have spent many an unhappy day looking at them

Are you having problems hence your'e enquiry. let us know

Regards

Fatboy

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Originally Posted by rdocwra

Hi Buddy,

Good Luck, A lot of Co-op stores in the north of england seem to have these packs fitted and have major oil problems. I have spent many an unhappy day looking at them

Are you having problems hence your'e enquiry. let us know

Regards

Fatboy

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most of the problems with Linde packs with this system on it are purely down to service guys, I am sorry to say. Once some pratt starts fiddling with them, that is all to heck :)

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Originally Posted by WebRam

most of the problems with Linde packs with this system on it are purely down to service guys, I am sorry to say. Once some pratt starts fiddling with them, that is all to heck :)

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I couldn't aggree more. The trouble is most of these packs are getting very old. Most large companies over the years will have had 4 or 5 different sets of contractors in most on fully comp contracts and they then bodge/adjust/link out whatever they can just to get the things running without spending too much.

Thankfully, there are a few comapnies out there that will take contracts on over 3 years and instead of just getting through they spend the money in the first year and get them right. In the long run these comapnies save money as they don't get the call outs but it is still had to convince people sometimes that it is the way to go on something like this

Regards

Fatboy

Thanks all for your replies,

Yes I am having problems with oil, I have carried out the usual first aid, changed the oil, cleaned the strainers in the compressors, checked the oil diff switch operation and I am still getting nuisance oil trips on different compressors, so hence I am actually looking deeper at the actual oil recovery itself.

(by the way the insulation on the oil adjust screws indicate that nobody has touched them for years).

Has anybody got a piping schematic for this type of system?

Hi
I have drawings/table somewhere when i get more time will post it:)
Mark

Hi Mark,

When you get time I'd really appreciate it if you could forward me any drawings or extra information.

Thanks in advance........you have all been really helpfull.

:)

Hi Buddy,

I dont like to ask the obvious and please don't take it personally but what oil did you put in.

The only reason i ask is that i know a load of Linde packs along the M18/M180/M62 corridor had the wrong oil put in them by a contractor about two years ago and i know this was causing major problems with oil trips for a company up that way.

i am afraid i cannot remember what oil was in there and what they replaced it with.

Regards

Fatboy

Hi rdocwra,

The Oil is Capella WF 32 Refrigeration Oil, Type A/150 32 manufactured by Caltex.

Regards Buddy.

Hi Buddy,I assume the oil trips you are experiencing are due to low oil levels occuring in the crankcase?
As you may already know the principal of the oil return on these packs relys on the needle valve opening i.e turns open, allowing the oil return to equal the compressor oil carry-over.
The oil accumulator should always remain with a level of approx 50-70mm from the bottom of the vessel.
Have you contacted Linde direct, if you provide them with the working refrigerant, evaporating temp and compressor type they should be able to advise.

Regards, B.B.

Hello B.B.

Thanks for your information.

I have tried to gather information from Linde, even emailed branches overseas, as we are a direct competitor with Linde.......I dont seem to be able to invite a responce, hence I am on this forum.

A piping schematic would be of great assistance if anyone has one?

Kind regards

Buddy.

Hi Buddy.
I will gather some useful info for you and post it in the next few days regarding recommended position of the needle valves, suitable oils, etc.
I cannot understand the need for the exclusion of the oil seperator from the package. Through my personal experience, oil seps regardless of efficency, prove to be beneficial in the role they serve in any refrigeration plant. What sort of drawings do you think require to grasp the understanding?

Regards B.B.

Hi B.B,

I would love a complete pipeline schematic of the Linde Pack oil recovery system..........and any tips you may have....I am hungry for the knowledge.

All the best for your greatest New Year ever in 2006....and a Merry Christmas :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkFiddy

Hi
I have drawings/table somewhere when i get more time will post it:)
Mark

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Mark, Sorry to be a pest, but I Could really do with the drawings/information......did you recieve my email address?

Kind regards

Buddy.

Try using a hysave liquid pump to deliver you refrigerant to the valves. You may increase vapour velocity sufficiently to return the oil!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buddy

Mark, Sorry to be a pest, but I Could really do with the drawings/information......did you recieve my email address?

Kind regards

Buddy.

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Hi Buddy :)
I ve had some problems posting pdf on forum.I didnt recieve your email address.
Hopefully get some info posted soon:)
Kind regards. Mark

Buddy

Try these for a start,hope this helps:)

Kind regards. Mark

And..........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buddy

Can anyone enlighten me about the Oil recovery system for a Linde H.T Pack operating on R22, Type VHP 330 4011, Manufactured in Germany 1997.

There is no conventional Oil seporater fitted in the common discharge line, however there is a quarter pipe (brazed into the common discharge) line feeding back to the compressors (3 x 15 h.p Bitzers) all with no oil regulators fitted.
I have always been informed that this type of Linde oil recovery system works on the Venturi principle (I know the principle)...is this true and could anyone supply a pipeline schematic to the Linde design?

My enquiries seem to come to a dead end hence my enquiry on this forum.

Thanking you in advance.

---

Buddy

Any update, how did you progress?

Mark:)

Hi Guys,

I am assuming that due to the age of this post all has been resolved, if not the answer is simple. Needle valves and Linde Oil return system!!! Although I have been off the tools for about 10 years now this system is imprinted on the inside of my eyelids due to many a late night in a Macro somewhere working for Linde. For anyone who comes accross this problem do the following:

Remove the insulation from the stems on the bottom of the suction accumulator and unscrew the needle valves so they are wide open and run the pack, keep an eye on the compressor oil levels though!! There is likely to be crap stuck on top of the needle. Run the compressors like this for about an hour and then shut down and clean the the oil strainers in each compressor. Then wind the needle back to the original setting, because of course you counted the number of turns when you opened them didn't you!!!!!

Good Luck!

I have never seen this Linde system. Does anyone know if they imported it into Australia? I think the traxoil electronic oil level control on each individual compressor fed from an efficient oil separator is hard to beat. Each compressor is fed the correct amount of oil so that the compressor oil level always remains constant. I have used this system for many years on Frascolds and Copelands on low and medium temp without any problems.