Compressor unit broke- only 1yr old!

Hi
I had a walk in cold room installed last june. The cold room is in my shop, with the compressor unit outside. It has been working fine (given we've had bad winter etc) until yesterday when it has stopped cooling. The stat said it was 18 degrees. It was still blowing air into the cold room, but it just wasn't cooling.

I've had an engineer out to diagnose the problem and he said i need a new compressor to the tune of £600!

It was a brand new coldroom installed 1yr +3 days ago! I called the person who installed it and he just wasn't interested despite him giving us a warranty (it turns out he is a bit of a cowboy!) The manufacturers aren't interested either as they say responsibilty lies with installer..

I don't know what to do? I can't afford £600 to get a new compressor, but desperately need my cooler back on and working.

Any ideas/ advice gratefully received.
Thanks

Hi Welcome along,

Unfortunately if the compressor has failed then there isn't much you can do without replacing it. The compressor is the vital component in your system, if the refrigeration firm you have had out are certain its the compressor....then your stuck! You could get a second opinion but you risk having 2 call out fee's to find out the same thing. Have they told you why the compressor has failed? They fail for a reason.

In the past year did you have the unit serviced? Go back to the company who carried out the service...

J

You may be able claim repair on insurance, depending on what sort of property cover you have. Read policy details carefully. If cover includes electrical fusion, and compressor is burnt out you are covered.

buy a new compressor,swap the dataplates and return it in a month for warranty replacement- then you'll have a spare-then flog it on e bay or keep it as a spare:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by install monkey

buy a new compressor,swap the dataplates and return it in a month for warranty replacement- then you'll have a spare-then flog it on e bay or keep it as a spare:)

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Not the sort of advice we would want to give on here....

thanks for the replies..
the engineer couldn't tell us what has caused the fault (if indeed it is that?)

I called insurance company- they said its wear and tear.. and thus it would not be covered! We can dispute this, but would involve us filing a claim, them sending an engineer to do a report, and it would depend on insurance engineers opinion whether its 'wear & tear' (bear in mind its only 1yr old) or if its a manufacturing fault or something else... but in that case we would NOT get paid, plus we would lose 'no-claims' as it would go down as a 'non-paid' claim so would effect our future insurance- insurers should come with a mask!!

I've got another company coming out today to diagnose it.. will see.. I still think its unfair that the manufacturers can't be liable for some of the blame as surely it should last longer than 368 days!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

thanks for the replies..
the engineer couldn't tell us what has caused the fault (if indeed it is that?)

Snip

I've got another company coming out today to diagnose it.. will see.. I still think its unfair that the manufacturers can't be liable for some of the blame as surely it should last longer than 368 days!!

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It is unfair to you.
But your argument is with the guy who installed it not the manufacturer.

Things fail and compressors fail under warrenty and because they were manufactured wrong
but in the majority of cases and I mean in the top 90%, when a compressor fails earlier
than it normally should it is down to the guy who installed it and the guy who ran it.

The manufacturers 1 year garentee has to have a cut off point.
It is unfair that the compressor failed but I would look more to how
it was installed than how it was made.

If the guy who installed it is now turning his back on you I think that says more about
him than it does about the possiblity that the compressor was a dud!

When the second company test the system you will have a better understanding of
what happend because the guy who wants £600 to change it should be able to explain
what has failed on this one.

Is the compressor hermeticaly sealed or semi hemetic (it it a black welded closed box
or does it have plates and panels that could be removed).

Is it electrical?
Is it open circuit or down to earth?
Has the comp seized?
Is there oil inside the comp?

The least I would expect is for somebody to tell what the condition of
the compressor is, from that they could try and work out what the possible fault was!!

Regards

Rob

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Just had 2nd engineer out- he confirmed that the compressor is broken and seemed surprised given the age of it.. he said it will be about £300 to repair it (just waiting for confirmation of price) but he also said that he could give us a report to satisfy the insurance that it is not due to wear and tear.. so hopefully we could go to them with that before we get it done and they might pay up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

Just had 2nd engineer out- he confirmed that the compressor is broken and seemed surprised given the age of it.. he said it will be about £300 to repair it (just waiting for confirmation of price) but he also said that he could give us a report to satisfy the insurance that it is not due to wear and tear.. so hopefully we could go to them with that before we get it done and they might pay up?

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Seems like a decent chap...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

Just had 2nd engineer out- he confirmed that the compressor is broken and seemed surprised given the age of it.. he said it will be about £300 to repair it (just waiting for confirmation of price) but he also said that he could give us a report to satisfy the insurance that it is not due to wear and tear.. so hopefully we could go to them with that before we get it done and they might pay up?

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Just out of interest you ought to get the second guy to take the comp back to the suplier.
If it is a manufacturing issue they may honour the warentee??

Its worth a try.

Rob

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob White

Just out of interest you ought to get the second guy to take the comp back to the suplier.
If it is a manufacturing issue they may honour the warentee??

Its worth a try.

Rob

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HRP must be sending out dodgy makes then :o in 7 years i've had only 1 duff compressor.... haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by install monkey

buy a new compressor,swap the dataplates and return it in a month for warranty replacement- then you'll have a spare-then flog it on e bay or keep it as a spare:)

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Brilliant advice, rep points on the way....:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

thanks for the replies..
the engineer couldn't tell us what has caused the fault (if indeed it is that?)

I called insurance company- they said its wear and tear.. and thus it would not be covered! We can dispute this, but would involve us filing a claim, them sending an engineer to do a report, and it would depend on insurance engineers opinion whether its 'wear & tear' (bear in mind its only 1yr old) or if its a manufacturing fault or something else... but in that case we would NOT get paid, plus we would lose 'no-claims' as it would go down as a 'non-paid' claim so would effect our future insurance- insurers should come with a mask!!

I've got another company coming out today to diagnose it.. will see.. I still think its unfair that the manufacturers can't be liable for some of the blame as surely it should last longer than 368 days!!

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If the installer has installed the unit in a crap location or not carried out his works properly the blame could lie with him, on the other hand if the unit is choked up with dust and grime and hasn't been serviced...then its your fault for being tight :D.... just saying as you didn't answer if it had been serviced or not...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

Just had 2nd engineer out- he confirmed that the compressor is broken and seemed surprised given the age of it.. he said it will be about £300 to repair it (just waiting for confirmation of price) but he also said that he could give us a report to satisfy the insurance that it is not due to wear and tear.. so hopefully we could go to them with that before we get it done and they might pay up?

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Are your contractors offering up reasons as to why the compressor has failed, often you cannot fully interogate and fault find until the new compressor is fitted, however he should be able to offer up some explanation to you as to why it has failed...Also don't always go with the cheapest quotation, compare them closely, as the first firm may have decided to change electrical components (contactor, capacitor etc) and protection devices like High pressure switch etc to cover all the bases and make a lasting repair.....

J

Would expect a manufacturing fault to show up way before they year was up.
Most likely the cause of failure would be the compressor has been run outside of its design parrameters, e.g. dirty condenser, shortage of refrigerant, low voltage, poor control settings.
Or it could be damage done by poor installation and commissioning practices.

It would be worth cutting open the old one once removed to see what failed, either mechanical or electrical, this information could help preventing the new one going the same way...

monkeyspanners- just honor the warranty and chuck the old pot in ur garden in your prestcold flower bed! haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monkey spanners

Would expect a manufacturing fault to show up way before they year was up.
Most likely the cause of failure would be the compressor has been run outside of its design parrameters, e.g. dirty condenser, shortage of refrigerant, low voltage, poor control settings.
Or it could be damage done by poor installation and commissioning practices.

It would be worth cutting open the old one once removed to see what failed, either mechanical or electrical, this information could help preventing the new one going the same way...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by install monkey

monkeyspanners- just honor the warranty and chuck the old pot in ur garden in your prestcold flower bed! haha

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Every install gets a tail light warranty which i honour fully :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monkey spanners

Every install gets a tail light warranty which i honour fully :)

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Your tail lights work????????????

Is that why you bought the turbo model, so that the blue smoke covers the warranty period.

Hi
Had not yet had it serviced given it literally has just come up to its 1st birthday.. but i do get everything that needs servicing done so it would have been done in time..

Anyhoo, i had the second engineer come and fix it today.. he advised that the cover that the cowboy put on it had no ventilation holes therefore the compressor overheated.. he replaced the part and cut us some holes in the cover and said we shouldn't have any more trouble with it.. he also gave us a 1yr warranty on the repair too.. am considering reporting the installer to trading standards upon advise from the engineer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

Hi
Had not yet had it serviced given it literally has just come up to its 1st birthday.. but i do get everything that needs servicing done so it would have been done in time..

Anyhoo, i had the second engineer come and fix it today.. he advised that the cover that the cowboy put on it had no ventilation holes therefore the compressor overheated.. he replaced the part and cut us some holes in the cover and said we shouldn't have any more trouble with it.. he also gave us a 1yr warranty on the repair too.. am considering reporting the installer to trading standards upon advise from the engineer

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Hi, thanks for the update, sounds like it was an install problem then!

Just curious to get an owners perspective, how often would you expect your system to need servicing?

more worrying- how do you celebrate a compressors 1st birthday?? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by install monkey

more worrying- how do you celebrate a compressors 1st birthday?? :D

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With beer and cake now the warranty has gone :p

Hello Crazy Flowers.
for a bit satisfaction write a letter to the local business assocition, and Editor of local news paper. And detail how your were tucked by a dubious local so called trades person. Place a warning notice in your shop window. You are bound to get a reaction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

Hi
Had not yet had it serviced given it literally has just come up to its 1st birthday.. but i do get everything that needs servicing done so it would have been done in time..

Anyhoo, i had the second engineer come and fix it today.. he advised that the cover that the cowboy put on it had no ventilation holes therefore the compressor overheated.. he replaced the part and cut us some holes in the cover and said we shouldn't have any more trouble with it.. he also gave us a 1yr warranty on the repair too.. am considering reporting the installer to trading standards upon advise from the engineer

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ok....Never personally cut ventilation holes into any condenser (outdoor unit where compressor lives) in my honest opinion give it a few months and there will be another problem...but what do we know aye :p

Make sure your condenser coil is spotless, cough up the pennies and get it serviced properly

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdunc2301

ok....Never personally cut ventilation holes into any condenser (outdoor unit where compressor lives) in my honest opinion give it a few months and there will be another problem...but what do we know aye :p

Make sure your condenser coil is spotless, cough up the pennies and get it serviced properly

J

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I haven't tried to be tight.. I would expect to get it serviced annually... they didn't cut holes in the condenser- they put the holes in the cover to enable better ventilation..

Also, unfortunately, the 'installer' was not local- hence why he doesn't care about coming back as i'd have a 200 miles round trip to get to him.. i do know his trading address etc- it does appear he is a cowboy so i think i will be reporting him in an attempt to stop him doing this to someone else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

I haven't tried to be tight.. I would expect to get it serviced annually... they didn't cut holes in the condenser- they put the holes in the cover to enable better ventilation..

Also, unfortunately, the 'installer' was not local- hence why he doesn't care about coming back as i'd have a 200 miles round trip to get to him.. i do know his trading address etc- it does appear he is a cowboy so i think i will be reporting him in an attempt to stop him doing this to someone else.

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What made you buy from him if he's so far away?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

I haven't tried to be tight.. I would expect to get it serviced annually... they didn't cut holes in the condenser- they put the holes in the cover to enable better ventilation..

Also, unfortunately, the 'installer' was not local- hence why he doesn't care about coming back as i'd have a 200 miles round trip to get to him.. i do know his trading address etc- it does appear he is a cowboy so i think i will be reporting him in an attempt to stop him doing this to someone else.

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Thought you were on about the condenser itself...

Servicing is dependant on how intensively the unit is used, if its by a road, where it's located etc etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdunc2301

Condenser meaning outdoor unit, obv not the condenser coil.....

Don't want holes in the cover, these things are meant to be outside.... I would concentrate on the engineer that has done the repair and keep an eye on the unit, cutting holes in the cover for ventilation.....ok! And make sure he's F-gas registered. If you want my stab at it....i'd say unit has either gotten blocked full of muck, or it's short of gas.... but good luck.

Give it 12 months and the engineer that has carried out the repair will be a "cowboy"

Servicing is dependant on how intensively the unit is used, if its by a road, where it's located etc etc

J

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You have read the post differantly to me.
The way I read the post, the condensing unit was in a box or a houseing with
no or little ventilation and that caused the comp to fail.

The second (or third) engineers has replaced the comp and he has also opened
up the box so it gets more ventilation.

Not actualy seeing it myself, so I can't possibly know for sure but it
sounds like the guy has had a proper repair from a competant engineer.

Regards

Rob

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob White

You have read the post differantly to me.
The way I read the post, the condensing unit was in a box or a houseing with
no or little ventilation and that caused the comp to fail.

The second (or third) engineers has replaced the comp and he has also opened
up the box so it gets more ventilation.

Not actualy seeing it myself, so I can't possibly know for sure but it
sounds like the guy has had a proper repair from a competant engineer.

Regards

Rob

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Now i look a mug ;)

I've re-read it and you make a point, i'm well and truly silenced...put my specs on in the future!

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdunc2301

Now i look a mug ;)

I've re-read it and you make a point, i'm well and truly silenced...put my specs on in the future!

J

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:D

Don't worry about looking a mug, I (just a few posts ago) told sombody
to fit a copper and brass schrader to an Ammonia system........... :confused:

Regards

Rob

.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob White

:D

Don't worry about looking a mug, I (just a few posts ago) told sombody
to fit a copper and brass schrader to an Ammonia system........... :confused:

Regards

Rob

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I dont respond well to people calling firms cowboys...makes me aggressive haha

Just throwing my 2p worth in, as its an outside unit and walk in unit wondering how much charge in the system and may require a twice annual inspection, as the owners insurane would be void if there was a problem anyhow, if the proper records and inspections have not been carried out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nobow

Just throwing my 2p worth in, as its an outside unit and walk in unit wondering how much charge in the system and may require a twice annual inspection, as the owners insurane would be void if there was a problem anyhow, if the proper records and inspections have not been carried out.

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If the refrigerant charge was less than 3Kg then he does'nt even have
to have an inspection. Above 3Kg's but below 30Kg's and it is only
once a year. I doubt that the system is larger than 30Kg's of refrigerant.

Regards

Rob

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob White

If the refrigerant charge was less than 3Kg then he does'nt even have
to have an inspection. Above 3Kg's but below 30Kg's and it is only
once a year. I doubt that the system is larger than 30Kg's of refrigerant.

Regards

Rob

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Forgive my ignorance.. I have no idea what any of that means.. I only have a small 2m x 2m walk in cold room, the compressor unit sits directly on the outside wall mounted 8ft or so in the air..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdunc2301

I dont respond well to people calling firms cowboys...makes me aggressive haha

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Well in my mind he is a cowboy as he did substandard work which he was paid in full for- the warranty he gave isn't worth the paper its written on and he downright refuses to come back and put the work that he did wrong RIGHT... oh and he's not a 'firm' as such.. more of a one-man band so in all honesty he could care less as he knows theres not a lot i can do about it!

the problem is the 1 man band is usually cheaper than the big companies- and he works on the fact the quicker the job-the more profit- as where the big company has to show a profit margin for each job of usually around 30% but the material cost is cheaper due to better discounts- so its swings and roundabouts- you probably saved a few quid on installation, as it lasted a year the install cant be that bad- but on the other hand- if you paid the extra for the more expensive quote then you would probably had had better warranty support and a fixed fridge-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

Well in my mind he is a cowboy as he did substandard work which he was paid in full for- the warranty he gave isn't worth the paper its written on and he downright refuses to come back and put the work that he did wrong RIGHT... oh and he's not a 'firm' as such.. more of a one-man band so in all honesty he could care less as he knows theres not a lot i can do about it!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazy flowers

Forgive my ignorance.. I have no idea what any of that means.. I only have a small 2m x 2m walk in cold room, the compressor unit sits directly on the outside wall mounted 8ft or so in the air..

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Hi Crazy Flowers.

The refrigerant charge weight or the amount of refrigerant inside the system dictates
how often you are expected to have the system leak tested (serviced).

If you don't know what the weights are, the refrigeration
engineer who carried out the initial work and anyone who works on it
including the guy who changed your compressor should know and should
inform you of your legal duties to have the system proved to be gas tight.

Think of the car MOT. Well this is sort of an MOT for your fridge and for you
to be able to comply (or not as the case may be) you need to know how
much refrigerant is inside the system...

It is a requirement of the Fgas qualifications, fridge engineers are required
to hold.

Ask the engineer who changed the compressor. But if the are qualified and
working to the correct standard they would have left the relevent log book
documents that are required under the new law (only if your system has more
than 3Kg of refrigerant inside, otherwise it might not)..

Regards

Rob

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